Well I'm still in my first week of Boomkin PvP and I was playing around with this build (45/0/16) and its been great, treants seem pretty useful in those mass-melee groups just to add to the confusion ^^, but and here's the crux, would NS be a better talent in a build like this (40/0/21)
Sometimes, it seems that being able to whip out an instant Wrath or Heal to finish someone off or save someone (or myself) would be more useful than the trees, how ever much fun they are.
Just curious as to general thoughts on this, seeing as i'm a bit of a pvp (and moonkin) newbie.
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FoN or NS for PVP?Follow
As much as I loved the idea of the Force of Nature talent when BC came out, I came to realize, though not through personal experience but rather from a few trusted Druids on my server, that FoN does not really scale with your gear.
As you get better gear, your amount of +SpellDmg should rise, as should your +Heal consequently. That means you can do bigger emergency heals. So, that instant heal will keep getting better and better. Or that instant Wrath (though I think it'd be a waste on an instant Wrath) will hit harder. The trees, however, will not do much more.
And from what I have seen in action, while the trees seem great for duels against single targets, they get obliterated in a mass PvP situation where two small groups collide and AoE Fear and damage start popping.
EDIT: Also, for PvP, added survivability > flavor summon spell. Heck, added survivability > small damage boost.
Edited, Dec 12th 2007 7:54am by Selverein
As you get better gear, your amount of +SpellDmg should rise, as should your +Heal consequently. That means you can do bigger emergency heals. So, that instant heal will keep getting better and better. Or that instant Wrath (though I think it'd be a waste on an instant Wrath) will hit harder. The trees, however, will not do much more.
And from what I have seen in action, while the trees seem great for duels against single targets, they get obliterated in a mass PvP situation where two small groups collide and AoE Fear and damage start popping.
EDIT: Also, for PvP, added survivability > flavor summon spell. Heck, added survivability > small damage boost.
Edited, Dec 12th 2007 7:54am by Selverein
In an arena, if you have heals already, a Starfire NS Starfire combo would put out some nice burst damage especially if you get any crits involved. Would be nice to try, but it depends on whether you think a NS+Heal is more imoportant.
Can't do NS+Starfire. Unless I'm mistaken, NS affects nature spells only :S
Indeed, Starfire is Arcane and NS only works on Nature spells.
I think instant Roots could be useful for as for some more offensive power you won't be able to do so much with NS.
I think instant Roots could be useful for as for some more offensive power you won't be able to do so much with NS.
I've come to the conclusion that Force of Nature is by far more useful. To use Nature's Swiftness as a heal, which 85% of the time you will, you must switch out of Moonkin form. Force of Nature deals a significant amount of damage, attacks invisible players, and is an instant cast. Force of Nature beats an instant Wrath any day. You don't better serve anyone but yourself in group situations with Nature's Swiftness. 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5. In all these cases, Force of Nature is simply more useful.
I asked this very same question, but in the end, Force of Nature is a 41-point talent for a reason.
I asked this very same question, but in the end, Force of Nature is a 41-point talent for a reason.
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To use Nature's Swiftness as a heal, which 85% of the time you will, you must switch out of Moonkin form.
I think survival of an arena team, for example, is worth the shift. Especially since shift out does not trigger the GCD and thus you can activate NS very quickly.
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You don't better serve anyone but yourself in group situations with Nature's Swiftness. 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5. In all these cases, Force of Nature is simply more useful.
Again, I strongly favor saving your arena team's healer, or one of them, over throwing in a bunch of trees, hoping they kill your healer's attackers.
Trees are NOT used to save healers - they are used to prevent spellcast. This means that they are useful agains priests, paladins, shamans and mages - all classes of which at least one are represented on each 5v5 team (almost). As another one pointed out, it is a 41 talent point for a reason.
What you should pick depends on your setup - if it's a 4 DPS, go with trees, if it 's an outlasting team, go with NS imo.
What you should pick depends on your setup - if it's a 4 DPS, go with trees, if it 's an outlasting team, go with NS imo.
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This means that they are useful agains paladins
Nope. Plate armor + Concentration Aura + Spiritual Focus = If it doesn't have an interrupt, it can keep hitting all day. I always get a good laugh when a Lock puts his Felpuppy on me but forgets to use that nasty Spell Lock.
But yeah, I wasn't suggesting to use FoN to save a healer, it's just that I find NS to be a better trick up your sleeve compared to FoN, that's all.
Edited, Dec 13th 2007 2:05pm by Selverein
Quote:
Trees are NOT used to save healers - they are used to prevent spellcast. This means that they are useful agains priests, paladins, shamans and mages - all classes of which at least one are represented on each 5v5 team (almost). As another one pointed out, it is a 41 talent point for a reason.
Absolutely correct. NS really sounds nice on paper and it is a great talent, but compared to the treants it fails. The biggest thing about FoN is the interruption. Fight a shaman with NS instead of treants and it is a HUGE difference. As a matter of fact I say losing treants cutsback your chance of winning by as much as 50% (depending on the shaman)
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I think survival of an arena team, for example, is worth the shift.
But thats the thing. NS provides very little more survivability. Sure an instant healing touch will save you once or twice, but a cyclone will do just as good in most cases.
FoN definitally wins in PvP/Arena because if your enemy decides to attack the trees first thats less damage on you and your teammates. If they decide to attack you and your team other then the trees then they have 3 big trees pounding them into oblivion depending on how long the fight lasts.
Besides you get to summon trees!!! Thats freaking awesome! Bottom line is NS does not even compare.
Besides you get to summon trees!!! Thats freaking awesome! Bottom line is NS does not even compare.
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