Hello
I am a holy pally in a guild which currently raids Kara and ZA regularly. The other healers in the team are a holy priest and a resto druid.
My question is this - with the HoTs and group heals that priests & druids have, should they regularly be above me on healing metres? I think we're all pretty much geared at the same level and have around the same +heal.
Don't want this to be construed as a "numbers is all that counts" question, I'm just interested.
Thank you.
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If they are better healers, then sure they should. If they're not, then it might just be that fight. Meters are something that are easy to become overly concerned with.
Hmm, well perhaps I should've given some more info - like the priest is always 3rd on the metre (druid and I are usually within 1 or 2% of each other), he's usually 3rd by at least 10% and I have my suspicions he's afk a lot or too busy /w-ing people to concentrate on healing.
Basically, I'm wondering whether he can get away with this because priests can't/don't heal as much as pallys or resto druids for some reason (which sounds a little odd to me) or whether the stats are as they should be and I'm being suspicious unnecessarily.
Basically, I'm wondering whether he can get away with this because priests can't/don't heal as much as pallys or resto druids for some reason (which sounds a little odd to me) or whether the stats are as they should be and I'm being suspicious unnecessarily.
Voxers wrote:
Hmm, well perhaps I should've given some more info - like the priest is always 3rd on the metre (druid and I are usually within 1 or 2% of each other), he's usually 3rd by at least 10% and I have my suspicions he's afk a lot or too busy /w-ing people to concentrate on healing.
Basically, I'm wondering whether he can get away with this because priests can't/don't heal as much as pallys or resto druids for some reason (which sounds a little odd to me) or whether the stats are as they should be and I'm being suspicious unnecessarily.
Basically, I'm wondering whether he can get away with this because priests can't/don't heal as much as pallys or resto druids for some reason (which sounds a little odd to me) or whether the stats are as they should be and I'm being suspicious unnecessarily.
When it comes to healing, Priests have more options than anyone. If he's worth his salt, I daresay he should be healing numbers within range of the Druid and yourself. But there's more to take into account than just straight class, as you're more than obviously aware of. Maybe he's AFK or whispering people. Maybe he's not as good as you and the Druid. Or maybe he's only being as good as he has to be since you and the Druid are healing well enough for him/her to get by that way.
Honestly, in the end... does it really matter? If your raid is alive and successful, able to advance... that's what really counts.
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Honestly, in the end... does it really matter? If your raid is alive and successful, able to advance... that's what really counts.
While that is entirely true from a technical point of view, it's kind of frustrating when you're far ahead on the damage meters and yet you get outrolled by another healer, let's call him "slacker" for the sake of the argument, on something that could've benefited you significantly.
Luckily for me, I'm the only Holy Pally in the guild now, since the other one went Retro, so there is a limited amount of gear people can outroll me on. But even then, I find it somewhat frustrating, although for no good reason, that a healing cloth piece drops from a boss who could've given me a nice healing plate piece. =/
Thanks for your thoughts, those who have posted.
See, this is the part I have a problem with. We're not going to advance with sub-par healers. The raid is only staying alive because the druid and I are picking up the slack all the time. And I mean all the time - the situation has existed for some months now and we've had to work really hard to get Kara cleared when in fact we should have been at that level a while ago.
I guess in that time, I should've rolled a priest and found out the answer for myself >.>
And Selverein, it's not the loot I'm bothered about, not at all. It's just the general sense of frustration I end up with after raiding which annoys me, so I was wondering whether I'm getting pissed for no reason or whether there was some technical/talent tree/gear reason this priest is consistently 15% or so lower than the druid and myself.
Quote:
Honestly, in the end... does it really matter? If your raid is alive and successful, able to advance... that's what really counts.
See, this is the part I have a problem with. We're not going to advance with sub-par healers. The raid is only staying alive because the druid and I are picking up the slack all the time. And I mean all the time - the situation has existed for some months now and we've had to work really hard to get Kara cleared when in fact we should have been at that level a while ago.
I guess in that time, I should've rolled a priest and found out the answer for myself >.>
And Selverein, it's not the loot I'm bothered about, not at all. It's just the general sense of frustration I end up with after raiding which annoys me, so I was wondering whether I'm getting pissed for no reason or whether there was some technical/talent tree/gear reason this priest is consistently 15% or so lower than the druid and myself.
Oh don't get me wrong, I feel the same way about the healers who I feel are slacking. And what bothers me even more is that they're pretty cool people, and some may not actually be slackers but just a bit less talented with the game.
It's just that for a long while I've been heavily undergeared compared to the other healers and I've pretty much always been able to keep up with them, if not end up on top. And yet I'd lose some rolls for stuff that would've been a bigger upgrade for me than the person winning. It doesn't really matter in the end cause I eventually won everything after going in Kara week after week, but that loot issue really bothered me and I guess it still remains somewhat.
And now that I'm equally gear I suspect they don't have a chance of competing on the meters. I know this is probably coming off as me being cocky and whatnot but I've been toping healing meters by asignificant margin.
Of course, they fill a role I cannot, and while my healing is greater, they usually have better group heals or heals over time which definitely have their use.
Anyway, I'll stop ranting now. =/
It's just that for a long while I've been heavily undergeared compared to the other healers and I've pretty much always been able to keep up with them, if not end up on top. And yet I'd lose some rolls for stuff that would've been a bigger upgrade for me than the person winning. It doesn't really matter in the end cause I eventually won everything after going in Kara week after week, but that loot issue really bothered me and I guess it still remains somewhat.
And now that I'm equally gear I suspect they don't have a chance of competing on the meters. I know this is probably coming off as me being cocky and whatnot but I've been toping healing meters by asignificant margin.
Of course, they fill a role I cannot, and while my healing is greater, they usually have better group heals or heals over time which definitely have their use.
Anyway, I'll stop ranting now. =/
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Prayer of Mending give credit to the person it heals? Might want to run a report that tells you everything it can, something like a WoW Web Stats report and look at all the healing he's done(broken down by spell). The best part is that you can look at if he's been slacking on trash and picking up on bosses, and where he is slacking specifically to see if there's a pattern or if he does better in some fights than others.
Mending, Lifebloom, and earth shield all count as healing done by the person healed.
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Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Prayer of Mending give credit to the person it heals? Might want to run a report that tells you everything it can, something like a WoW Web Stats report and look at all the healing he's done(broken down by spell). The best part is that you can look at if he's been slacking on trash and picking up on bosses, and where he is slacking specifically to see if there's a pattern or if he does better in some fights than others.
What a genius, thank you. Didn't realise something like this existed. Will see if I can get my grubby little mitts on WoW Web Stats (is it an add on?) and look at what's really happening.
Dilbrt wrote:
Mending, Lifebloom, and earth shield all count as healing done by the person healed.
Cool. Lifebloom and Earth Shield I knew did for sure, wasn't certain on PoM.
Voxers wrote:
What a genius, thank you. Didn't realise something like this existed. Will see if I can get my grubby little mitts on WoW Web Stats (is it an add on?) and look at what's really happening.
I'm not the one who uploads data to WWS myself, but here's their website. Hopefully you can figure out how to do it. I'm really the guy who analyzes the data, not the guy who has any clue how to get it up there.
http://wowwebstats.com
One precision about Lifebloom to avoid confusion: Only the "bloom" part counts as healing done by the person healed, thus also threat.
The HoT part works normally.
The HoT part works normally.
also take into account of who's healing who. and who is over healing? does your meter keep over healing off the healing or does it just leave it in there and then you have to go to diff spot and see the over healing done? also does the priest's bubbles count as heals at all?
Priests' bubbles don't count as healing as far as I know, as they just absorb a set amount of damage.
As for the meters, people who I grouped with always had different reports for total healing, effective healing, overhealing, etc.
As a side-note, I don't think an overhealing report is very relevant. Pallies are favored in that respec since all their heals are instant. Let's say a Druid puts a HoT on a DPSer who got hit once, and the Pally doesn't really check and casts FoL, he'll heal the DPSer and the Druid's HoT will turn into overhealing. Not exactly the Druid's fault.
As for the meters, people who I grouped with always had different reports for total healing, effective healing, overhealing, etc.
As a side-note, I don't think an overhealing report is very relevant. Pallies are favored in that respec since all their heals are instant. Let's say a Druid puts a HoT on a DPSer who got hit once, and the Pally doesn't really check and casts FoL, he'll heal the DPSer and the Druid's HoT will turn into overhealing. Not exactly the Druid's fault.
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As a side-note, I don't think an overhealing report is very relevant. Pallies are favored in that respec since all their heals are instant. Let's say a Druid puts a HoT on a DPSer who got hit once, and the Pally doesn't really check and casts FoL, he'll heal the DPSer and the Druid's HoT will turn into overhealing. Not exactly the Druid's fault.
true not his fault but even though it's over heal does the meters still count it on normal heals? is my point if so pally might have healed for 700 toped him off while the druids heal did 1000 and shows for mroe but is now over heal also so can be taken off the healed since it never healed it. but the meter may show he healed it when he didnt.
if that makes sence to anyone you must be on something good cause i think i confused my self alittle lol
Erm... no, it didn't make much sense, but if I refer to my prior post:
So if a Druid's HoT is gonna heal for 1900, but after 900 done a Pally throws a 1000 FoL, the other 1000 of the Druid is gonna be counted as overheal.
Now, if the mods you're using for healing meters is in any way viable, that's how it'll calculate the healing done.
On the "total healing done", the Druid will get 1900 and the Pally 1000.
On the "effective healing done", the Druid will get 900 and the Pally 1000.
On the "overhealing done", the Druid will get 1000 and the Pally none.
Clearer?
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As for the meters, people who I grouped with always had different reports for total healing, effective healing, overhealing, etc.
So if a Druid's HoT is gonna heal for 1900, but after 900 done a Pally throws a 1000 FoL, the other 1000 of the Druid is gonna be counted as overheal.
Now, if the mods you're using for healing meters is in any way viable, that's how it'll calculate the healing done.
On the "total healing done", the Druid will get 1900 and the Pally 1000.
On the "effective healing done", the Druid will get 900 and the Pally 1000.
On the "overhealing done", the Druid will get 1000 and the Pally none.
Clearer?
Quote:
one a Pally throws a 1000 FoL, the other 1000 of the Druid is gonna be counted as overheal.
Now, if the mods you're using for healing meters is in any way viable, that's how it'll calculate the healing done.
On the "total healing done", the Druid will get 1900 and the Pally 1000.
On the "effective healing done", the Druid will get 900 and the Pally 1000.
On the "overhealing done", the Druid will get 1000 and the Pally none.
Clearer?
Now, if the mods you're using for healing meters is in any way viable, that's how it'll calculate the healing done.
On the "total healing done", the Druid will get 1900 and the Pally 1000.
On the "effective healing done", the Druid will get 900 and the Pally 1000.
On the "overhealing done", the Druid will get 1000 and the Pally none.
Clearer?
HoTs do not cause overhealing, ever. They won't tick if the target is at full HP, and if they would heal for more HP than the target has on a tick it'll only do a partial tick.
It is still -wasted- healing, but it doesn't show up on overhealing meters.
As mentioned don't get over concerned with healing meters. There are times where I can be at the bottom of it but as long as the people I am designated to heal are alive then it is all gravy, mean while we might have a resto druid/shammy or Holy priest raid healing since they are a little more solid in that regard and they are doing 2x the healing.
That being said if you feel that healing is suffering, people are dying where they shouldn't, tanks are going too long without heals, etc. then a heal meter like recount really helps. You can look back at a person see who they were healing, what they were healing with and how much they healed for.
If a person is going afk, whispering or consistently failing to pull their weight in a raid you need to get that sorted out. That ***** doesn't fly past Gruul's or even Hex Lord in ZA. It will become an issue so either get it sorted out now or else gear the guy up, have it become and issue and then either have your raid progression halt due to a weak link or have it halt due to losing him and having to replace/gear a new healer. Sooner you can get that resolved the less of a problem it will be in the future.
Edited, Dec 16th 2007 3:55pm by bodhisattva
That being said if you feel that healing is suffering, people are dying where they shouldn't, tanks are going too long without heals, etc. then a heal meter like recount really helps. You can look back at a person see who they were healing, what they were healing with and how much they healed for.
If a person is going afk, whispering or consistently failing to pull their weight in a raid you need to get that sorted out. That ***** doesn't fly past Gruul's or even Hex Lord in ZA. It will become an issue so either get it sorted out now or else gear the guy up, have it become and issue and then either have your raid progression halt due to a weak link or have it halt due to losing him and having to replace/gear a new healer. Sooner you can get that resolved the less of a problem it will be in the future.
Edited, Dec 16th 2007 3:55pm by bodhisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
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HoTs do not cause overhealing, ever. They won't tick if the target is at full HP, and if they would heal for more HP than the target has on a tick it'll only do a partial tick.
Can't believe I didn't remember that sooner...
But that partial tick will be overhealing, won't it? This assumption is simply based on how SCT shows healing on my Druid when soloing. It's true that once my health is full I don't see the ticks popping, but a partial tick will display the leftover healing done the same way it would when I overheal on my Pally.
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