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Ret 2.3+Follow

#77 Dec 19 2007 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
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RPZip wrote:
... group composition doesn't really play a part beyond the very basics (Do you have a healer? Y/N Do you have any damage? Y/N Okay, go ahead!) until 2000 or higher.

That's a load of crap. Sorry, RP. I have a lot of respect for you, but that is crap.

RPZip wrote:
... a lot of other stuff.

Wishful thinking. We've tried. But every time Ret is tweaked in even the slightest fashion, we're bombarded with "zOmG rEt Iz TeH wTfPnW" posts over here. Even when it's not tweaked they'll spring up periodically like some kind of weed or ****-a-roach.

You just have to keep stomping them down.
#78 Dec 19 2007 at 4:23 AM Rating: Good
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If I didn't argue and aruge I would still be at 7063 posts after all theses years!

Ret still sucks.
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#79 Dec 19 2007 at 5:19 AM Rating: Decent
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RPZip wrote:
Overlord CapJack wrote:
I don't see holy paladins knocking down a Crusader Strike to refresh all the judgements on the mob.


Yes, they just have to autoattack to do that and they can keep healing.


Think that got lost cause I didn't see Jack post about it :P That's one Judgement, he said "all".
#80 Dec 19 2007 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
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Ret still sucks.

nope.
#81 Dec 19 2007 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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RPZip wrote:
Oh my fucking god, enough is enough.

Ret is fine. It's FINE, okay? It's not the best PvP spec, and it's not the worst. It's fairly good especially at lower ratings, although it falls apart somewhat once you get higher; in the easier brackets BoP and an additional bubble are fairly strong tools, plus you get a free BoFreedom. Would it be my first choice? Probably not. Will it do well enough to get to 1800, especially in 3v3? I'd be shocked if it didn't. All you need is a brain; group composition doesn't really play a part beyond the very basics (Do you have a healer? Y/N Do you have any damage? Y/N Okay, go ahead!) until 2000 or higher.

It's also okay in PvE. Not great, not the worst either. It has a moderately nice debuff and lets Holyadins be lazy with reapplying their Judgements, and the damage isn't too bad either when properly supported in a melee group (hiyo, Shaman). It also gives you an additional blessing, which may or may not matter at all.

Ret is not the second coming of Christ, tommy. Ret is not some unholy abomination, kt and bodhi. For the love of god, shut up about it and let it go! I've been reading this forum for about a year and it's ALWAYS been this sparring ground about Ret. Let it the fuck go and move on! Nobody is going to change anyone's mind at this point.

No, pictures of you doing awesome in a BG don't matter. Neither do Arena screenshots, really. But neither does ******** about it for this goddamn long! LET IT GO!

Tommy, no offense, but you're always going to do... decently. You seem to be a fairly good player with horrible gear, so you'll always exceed the expectations of those around you in a similar gear bracket... they tend to be morons as a general rule. Using a brain means you'll obliterate them.

bodhiturner, you'll likewise also almost always be in a higher gear bracket. You have the advantage of a bit more perspective. Has that actually managed to convince him in all this time? Do you really think it ever will? Let it go, smile a little arrogant smirk every time you see him post, and move on.

Edited, Dec 19th 2007 2:41am by RPZip


Nobody is forcing you to read anything. Go read something else ffs.
#82 Dec 19 2007 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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haha, to a degree i agree with RP though. i'd really rather see positive or constructive advice rather than so much argueing. there is no one class/spec that is absolutely perfect. there are classes that are easier to play and specs that are better at certain things than others.

some of us just have a different playstyle. i tried a rogue, but couldn't get into it. admittedly, i only got to 35, but green and yellow mobs were killing me and i never topped damage charts like i should have. the class just didn't work for me. on the other hand, my ret has always been top or 2nd in dps in groups. also, in solo play i kill fast and can kill most elites even in outlands by myself. ret is just what works for me. it obviously doesn't work well for everyone
#83 Dec 19 2007 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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as anyone on this board knows, i am an advocate for the Ret spec. i'm not alluding to that the other specs are not worthy of playing(i reached uncrit/uncrush as a tank and healers are godly). i'm merely showing to those who are interested that there is another option, should you choose it. i mean how long did it take for something substantial to be added to the sticky FAQ about Ret spec...and it still isn't adequate for any kind of insight.

you try posting in the forum and you either get flamed for being a heretic or you get a dry, regurgitated response. never have i met such an elitist bunch so opposed to potentially 1/3 of its class. its like the Black Panthers rejecting a native African cuz he's too black.

'broken spec' as it may seem, still no one cares. some would rather just cut off a wounded leg then have to acknowledge it and try to fix it.

if i create a thread titled "...ret.." chances are it'll have some screenshots or some anecdotes. those screenies might not be uber leet, but at least someone is exploring the idea. could i spec Holy and grab an 1800 rating in arena? most likely. but i'm not. i'm doing it Ret or bust...for the challenge...for the fun. i would also encourage anyone to follow suit and outperform me.
#84 Dec 19 2007 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
I completely agree with all of that and I'll rate you up for saying it.
#85 Dec 19 2007 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I completely agree with all of that and I'll rate you up for saying it.
#86 Dec 19 2007 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I just really like pointing out its faults. I have to bug our ret pally in guild, he ended last season at 1950 on his 3v3, always tell him it would have been 2100 if he wasn't ret!

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#87 Dec 19 2007 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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tommyguns wrote:
i would also encourage anyone to follow suit and outperform me.


working on that ;) haha but seriously, even if your arena ratings aren't sky high, most of your posts and pics have been a lot of motivation to me. keep it up. and as you get the points enjoy the s3 ret gear. i look forward to getting some eventually, myself.
#88 Dec 19 2007 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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i can post screenies too!

first armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zuluhed&n=Jxavier

2nd lol wut happen?

3rd nice damage and leet heals! Thats all he managed to heal through his bubble. 4k. rofl what a pansy.

mage invis'd, waltzed up to them novad and GG. didnt even know wtf happened to him.

and mage pally isnt exactly the best thing out there. mage in 2v2s have it really rough.

Obviously ret is weaksauce cuz i have PICS!

edit: lol@ how much i had to heal that match. /rolleyes.

Edited, Dec 19th 2007 8:53pm by KTurner
#89 Dec 19 2007 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
i can post screenies too!

first armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zuluhed&n=Jxavier

2nd lol wut happen?

3rd nice damage and leet heals! Thats all he managed to heal through his bubble. 4k. rofl what a pansy.

mage invis'd, waltzed up to them novad and GG. didnt even know wtf happened to him.

and mage pally isnt exactly the best thing out there. mage in 2v2s have it really rough.

Obviously ret is weaksauce cuz i have PICS!

edit: lol@ how much i had to heal that match. /rolleyes.

Edited, Dec 19th 2007 8:53pm by KTurner


to be honest, we've admitted that ret isn't easy. many don't figure it out well. there's players in every class that don't do well, i know (for instance me trying to play a rogue lol). i'd say anyone can show screenies of any class sucking. if i show a screenie of a rogue behind a prot pally in dps in a group (i've seen it happen) noone would accept my conclusion that rogues suck, cause its not true. similarly, just cause you found a ret that obviously didn't do well doesn't mean ret itself sucks. a screenie of tommy out-dpsing someone at least shows that ret can perform well at the level he's competing in.

i love the quote i saw once "if a shadow priest out dpses a rogue noone says its because the rogue sucks - the priest is just good; if a retadin out dpses a rogue its because the rogue sucks."

#90 Dec 19 2007 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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toolofjesus wrote:
KTurner wrote:
i can post screenies too!

first armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zuluhed&n=Jxavier

2nd lol wut happen?

3rd nice damage and leet heals! Thats all he managed to heal through his bubble. 4k. rofl what a pansy.

mage invis'd, waltzed up to them novad and GG. didnt even know wtf happened to him.

and mage pally isnt exactly the best thing out there. mage in 2v2s have it really rough.

Obviously ret is weaksauce cuz i have PICS!

edit: lol@ how much i had to heal that match. /rolleyes.

Edited, Dec 19th 2007 8:53pm by KTurner


to be honest, we've admitted that ret isn't easy. many don't figure it out well. there's players in every class that don't do well, i know (for instance me trying to play a rogue lol). i'd say anyone can show screenies of any class sucking. if i show a screenie of a rogue behind a prot pally in dps in a group (i've seen it happen) noone would accept my conclusion that rogues suck, cause its not true. similarly, just cause you found a ret that obviously didn't do well doesn't mean ret itself sucks. a screenie of tommy out-dpsing someone at least shows that ret can perform well at the level he's competing in.

i love the quote i saw once "if a shadow priest out dpses a rogue noone says its because the rogue sucks - the priest is just good; if a retadin out dpses a rogue its because the rogue sucks."



Again, "winnar of the special olympics".
#91 Dec 19 2007 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
Again, "winnar of the special olympics".


So it has to be like that?

I'm going to have to point out a few problems with your arguement then. First of all "winnar"? I asked Webster and he didn't know that word either.. Must be a "special" word there KT.

Secondly, while you're mocking his healing, the ret did almost double your healing, and the rogue did almost as much healing as you. Not exactly the screenshot I'd want to show when i'm gonna talk trash. Between you and that Ret, I think you're right that there's some special olympics going on. The fight was clearly between the Mage and the Rogue and your partner happened to be the one that won.

So, congratulations, you are the winner of your special olympics, thanks to your partner. Next time though you might not want to show a pic of a Ret out-healing you, though.

Oh, and all you really seemed to be showing us is that paladins aren't useful in arenas.

#92 Dec 20 2007 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
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toolofjesus wrote:
So it has to be like that?


It doesn't has to be like that, it is like that.

Ret in arena is nothing special, they got some buffs but it is still a crit dependent class in a world of resilience. BoF/BoP are nice in a 5v5 they help but lack of stuns, spell interrupts and proper CC really really hurt the class. With crit chance minimized and damage nerfed as well as the lack of CC you fall down to damage soaker, and since you are by no means a primary target in arena that is a gimped card to play.
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#93 Dec 20 2007 at 5:57 AM Rating: Decent
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bodhisattva wrote:
toolofjesus wrote:
So it has to be like that?


It doesn't has to be like that, it is like that.

Ret in arena is nothing special, they got some buffs but it is still a crit dependent class in a world of resilience. BoF/BoP are nice in a 5v5 they help but lack of stuns, spell interrupts and proper CC really really hurt the class. With crit chance minimized and damage nerfed as well as the lack of CC you fall down to damage soaker, and since you are by no means a primary target in arena that is a gimped card to play.


haha, first of all, i was referring to people name calling. ammusingly while showing a pic of himself contributing nearly nothing to his team and the oposing ret out-healing him. and a rogue doing nearly as much healing.

Secondly, "It doesn't has to be"? you're lucky i'm typing from my cell phone and too lazy to correct my capitalization. So I really have no grounds to say anything about this.... oh, well.

oh, and i never claimed ret was "something special". in arenas the only class i've see that is special is warlocks. every other class depends on player skill to do well... tommy shows that for his gear level he is comparable to other dpsers in arena. all my arguements have been relating to PVE instancing. i enjoy seeing tommyguns excited about his PVP accomplishments, but unfortunately, PVP isn't my strongest skill. even my holy pally has a hard time in arenas and bgs.

I'll be back to my computer soon. i'll try to post some good instance pics. 2 weeks without my computer has been painful.

so, bodh, do you have any pics showing the successes of pallies in arena? i love pallies of all specs, and a pic of a holy pally not tieing a rogue for healing would be cool too. cause you say ret sucks for PVP, and so far KT has shown the holy pallies apparently are equally bad.

#94 Dec 20 2007 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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toolofjesus wrote:
KTurner wrote:
Again, "winnar of the special olympics".


So it has to be like that?

I'm going to have to point out a few problems with your arguement then. First of all "winnar"? I asked Webster and he didn't know that word either.. Must be a "special" word there KT.

Secondly, while you're mocking his healing, the ret did almost double your healing, and the rogue did almost as much healing as you. Not exactly the screenshot I'd want to show when i'm gonna talk trash. Between you and that Ret, I think you're right that there's some special olympics going on. The fight was clearly between the Mage and the Rogue and your partner happened to be the one that won.

So, congratulations, you are the winner of your special olympics, thanks to your partner. Next time though you might not want to show a pic of a Ret out-healing you, though.

Oh, and all you really seemed to be showing us is that paladins aren't useful in arenas.



HA! i just noticed i outdamaged the retadin.

I pretty much stood there the whole match judging SoR and casting holy shock waiting for SOMEBODY to take some damage. well i think im the only one that took any damage and plate > rogue. What did i need to contribute? ROFL have you even played arena? Should i just spam FoL even though nobody is getting hurt? DURRRRRR. Besides, I did contribute, i did more damage than the retadin and i 1400 healing to back it up.

But yeah, you are right, judging by my LEET picture, rets are better heals (those were all heals on himself after he nearly got insta gibbed by a FROST MAGE when he has that much PvP gear) and holy/prot is better damage!

Problem is, my picture obviously wasnt a "look how leet i am" picture and tommy's always are. I play in the 1500s bracket of 2v2 arena. I play in that bracket on my rogue too. Im not that great, you could say im average. Im not proud of my 1500 ratings and im not all that proud of my personal performance until we get to 1800.

Are you saying my pictures dont mean ****? or do you seriously believe holy pallies are useless? If the former, then good the point was made, if the latter, your an idiot lol.
#95 Dec 20 2007 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
HA! i just noticed i outdamaged the retadin.

I pretty much stood there the whole match judging SoR and casting holy shock waiting for SOMEBODY to take some damage. well i think im the only one that took any damage and plate > rogue. What did i need to contribute? ROFL have you even played arena? Should i just spam FoL even though nobody is getting hurt? DURRRRRR. Besides, I did contribute, i did more damage than the retadin and i 1400 healing to back it up.

But yeah, you are right, judging by my LEET picture, rets are better heals (those were all heals on himself after he nearly got insta gibbed by a FROST MAGE when he has that much PvP gear) and holy/prot is better damage!

Problem is, my picture obviously wasnt a "look how leet i am" picture and tommy's always are. I play in the 1500s bracket of 2v2 arena. I play in that bracket on my rogue too. Im not that great, you could say im average. Im not proud of my 1500 ratings and im not all that proud of my personal performance until we get to 1800.

Are you saying my pictures dont mean sh*t? or do you seriously believe holy pallies are useless? If the former, then good the point was made, if the latter, your an idiot lol.


haha, are you really not clever enough to get my point? and did you not catch what i said about pictures? you can always find a ret that can't dps or a healadin whose team takes nearly 10k damage but only heals 2k of it (yes according to your pic you did have some healing you could have done). pics are worthless for showing that a class sucks. making conclusions about a spec based on a single player that sucks is stupid. if you can use that pic to say ret sucks, then by the same logic i can reasonably say that your perfomance shows holy is worthless. that was my point. and yes i've done a little arena on my holy pally. not a lot, but i think i'm still using the merciless glad loves if you check my armory. and, yeah, i know that contrary to your pic, holy is good in arenas. similarly, ret as a spec is not limited to the poor performance of your ret friend in that pic.

next time, please read the post you're quoting so i don't have to repeat myself. and yes, i'm sorry, i like a little sarcasm sometimes. i'll try to write it at the Jr High level like we have to do for documents in the Marines...
#96 Dec 20 2007 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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what no spelling mistakes this time mr webster?

But hey, as long as you realize that screenshots of pwning scrubs is not a sign of success, then we are on the same page.

Edited, Dec 20th 2007 1:06pm by KTurner
#97 Dec 20 2007 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
what no spelling mistakes this time mr webster?

But hey, as long as you realize that screenshots of pwning scrubs is not a sign of success, then we are on the same page.

Edited, Dec 20th 2007 1:06pm by KTurner


haha, nope didn't notice any spelling mistakes on your last post. if they were there they didn't jump out at me.

and i didn't actually say it wasn't a sign of success.... what i've said twice (this'll be the third time) is that they don't prove a classor spec sucks. you can suck at your class and get caught on a screenshot, but its pretty much impossible to do better than your class is capable. so it can show to a certain degee what your spec/class is capable of. so, while tommyguns may or may not be the best ret ever, he clearly does well with the ret spec. showing screenshots of other rets doing worse can't take away from what he's done.

but maybe what you were referring to was that i agree that ret isn't somehow a god spec that makes you all powerful. i'm not quite that idealistic. it is a capable spec however.
#98 Dec 20 2007 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
clearly does well with the ret spec.


Thats been my whole point this entire thread essentially that keeps getting missed. He hasnt. Beating people in the 1400-1500s is not a sign of success. There are some dumb people in that bracket. I play in that bracket, i play against rets, theres a good chance they are dumb. Big whoop it comes with the territory. So i beat a ret pally who cares? Same can be said for him, "so you beat some 1400s scrubs, who cares?" or "you outdamaged people on a team in the 1400s, who cares?"

Ive seen retadins in 2000s. There is obviously some success there.

but, again, my only point is as follows:

Beating people in the 1400s-1500s bracket of arena means squat and posting screenies of it is dumb.

Is he capable of getting higher? yes. If given the right partner i think he could do decent (decent is about 1700-1800 imo). I know tommy is a good player and can do it. I also think if he specced holy and found an arms warrior he would be in the 2ks with no problem.

I guarantee you if i come on here and see tommy post a screenshot or armory link of him in the 1800s as ret i will congratulate him. (then tell him he could have better, but i digress...)

hopefully if there was any misunderstanding it was clarified. I gotta wind down the discussion because im not gonna be posting much longer today.

1 hr 45 min till the end of work and then a 12 day vacation and i cant post when im not getting paid for it ya know.
#99 Dec 20 2007 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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It is really nice that Toolofjesus has leaned back on 'bad sentence structure' (I was posting at 6am, I am suprised it wasn't worse) and 'we don't suck we are just mediocre' as his two main arguments for ret. Too bad in the ultra competitive world of Arena pvp 'mediocre = fail'.

But hey, when your ret pally is under geared and lvl 67 that is the best you can hope for, least better than an undergeared Holy heavy paladin with no luck in arena /shrug
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#100 Dec 20 2007 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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1 hr 45 min till the end of work and then a 12 day vacation and i cant post when im not getting paid for it ya know.


QFT, I've probably earned several thousand dollars posting on alla.

"What's your game???"
#101 Dec 20 2007 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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bodhisattva wrote:
It is really nice that Toolofjesus has leaned back on 'bad sentence structure' (I was posting at 6am, I am suprised it wasn't worse) and 'we don't suck we are just mediocre' as his two main arguments for ret. Too bad in the ultra competitive world of Arena pvp 'mediocre = fail'.

But hey, when your ret pally is under geared and lvl 67 that is the best you can hope for, least better than an undergeared Holy heavy paladin with no luck in arena /shrug


haha, neither of those were my main points. the spelling and grammar points were just for fun. and because you left yourself open to it. oh, by the way, i wa catching those mistakes at 6am cali time after 3 hours sleep and waking up at 2...

secondly, i never said ret was mediocre. i merely admitted that it wasn't godly. my actual words were that it is comparable to other dps classes.

oh, and yes, i've never said i was anything other than level 67. undergeared? if i'm undergeared that makes my day. if being undergeared like you say, i'm still unbeatable in dps (except for the rare rogue) then maybe ret really is better.... at 66 i was out-dpsing some level 70s. now i really look forward to hitting 70 and getting properly geared.... according to your assessment of my gear level i should be close t unstoppable....

so, thankyou for the encouragement bodh :)

good thing that for the ultra-competitive world of arena where mediocre = fail, i'll be far from mediocre. ;)
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