Hello all,
I have been researching the paladin for about a week now and have finally just started one last night. I'm looking for an alt to play when now raiding on my main (resto sham). I have a shadow priest alt (lvl 43) but it's just not doing it for me. I've come to try and leveling with a pally, I would like to attempt to have him spec ret at 70. There are absolutely no ret pallies on my server and i'm really curious to see what they can do post 2.3. I know they are heavily gear dependent and that's fine. Call me a sucker for punishment but I like the challenge, if i wanted easy dps i'd roll a warlock. I also love the fact you can respec and do something totally different. I've played all three specs on my shaman numerous times, it keeps it interesting. So my question is really pretty basic level ret or prot aoe? Additionally can anyway link any specs or talent point allocation by level guides. I really know nothing about this class, learning more as I read more, but any help would be appreciated.
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Skeezixx 70 Resto Shaman (Fenris)
Ignignoktt 43 Shadow Priest (Fenris)
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I have been researching the paladin for about a week now
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So my question is really pretty basic level ret or prot aoe?
Strange that you missed the numerous posts and various, yet always about the same thing, individual threads.
Most people will agree that there are two main ways for leveling.
1 to 35-40 as Ret, then go Prot till feel like respec'ing if you do at all. I went Holy at 60 but looking back I could've waited a few more levels.
Or you can do 1-70 as Ret, or respec around 60-70 to whatever your end-game spec will be.
Ret is good to burn down single mobs quickly, so it's usually good for questing and such. You have poor survivability though, so most group quests will be undoable unless you outlevel them significantly.
Prot is good if you wanna massively farm some mobs that give rep or the like. I found it much more fun to level as Prot myself, although I only did it 40-60 or so. It's not your usual "run up to mob, unload everything, move on to next mob" setup so it's pretty fun and it's a welcome change of pace.
As for builds... I find at lower levels it varies a lot. All I can tell you is if you go Ret, if only for the first levels, take Benediction over Imp BoMight. It's more beneficial to last longer with mana management rather than try to push a tiny bit more DPS with a 40% increase of 35 AP.
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Ret is good to burn down single mobs quickly, so it's usually good for questing and such. You have poor survivability though, so most group quests will be undoable unless you outlevel them significantly.
Kinda true, but not insurmountable. I'm personally not a fan of taking talents in ret past SoC until you get to Crusader Strike. What I did as I leveled was went to SoC as fast as I could, then went down holy until I got Divine Favor. By level 31 I had uninteruptable heals (increasing my survivability) and by 42 I had free crit heals (now its cheap critical heals). By still gearing up as a Ret (My STR bonus was about twice my STA bonus, and those were the only two stats I was going for) I was able to deal (almost) as much damage as I would have if I had been ret while being able to critically heal myself if needed. I also brought a sword and board with me for those group quests, and with my higher damage output and being able to heal myself whenever needed, I was able to complete most of those group quests while they were still yellow.
Of course, I meant a fully Ret Pally, but even then I'm surprised. I thought only a Holy or Prot Pally could've done it. Although from what you're saying it's much like you were Holy, but with some added damage output. (Which I should've considered back then T_T)
Speccing like that also allowed me to grind almost indefinately. As my health was getting low (I didn't use much mana except for reapplying SoC and maybe judging it if I missed and the enemy was almost dead), I could crit heal myself and get all of my mana back and be almost at full health again and that allowed me to continue on. Id have to drink very rarely unless some situation caused more duress than others (for instance, having 3 or 4 yellow mobs beating on me.
With the changes to the leveling system which make questing a much more rewarding option, I personally believe that if you're interested primarily in Solo play and PVP Ret is a better and quicker option.
Finding groups that understand you're a DPS, though, may be challenging.
Finding groups that understand you're a DPS, though, may be challenging.
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(for instance, having 3 or 4 yellow mobs beating on me.
I call that tickle fun land. Gimme 6-10!
You forgot the third option to leveling: start as prot and never look back.
Nothing like being able to do orange and red quests without a problem. Also, you can literally grind endlessly with a prot pally with sword/shield before lvl 35. You don't kill in .2 seconds like a rogue, but you have no down time either, and you don't sweat at all if you pick up an add or two..or three.
Once you hit the 35-40 range, you get seal of light/wisdom, reckoning, and holy shield, and you can jump into mobs of 4-6+ and grind them all down at the same time. You're able to do what other classes wouldn't dare try (solo'ing elites your level, taking on many adds, doing quests way above your level). Plus if you like doing instances, good tanks are hard to come by and you'll get a group easily.
Nothing like being able to do orange and red quests without a problem. Also, you can literally grind endlessly with a prot pally with sword/shield before lvl 35. You don't kill in .2 seconds like a rogue, but you have no down time either, and you don't sweat at all if you pick up an add or two..or three.
Once you hit the 35-40 range, you get seal of light/wisdom, reckoning, and holy shield, and you can jump into mobs of 4-6+ and grind them all down at the same time. You're able to do what other classes wouldn't dare try (solo'ing elites your level, taking on many adds, doing quests way above your level). Plus if you like doing instances, good tanks are hard to come by and you'll get a group easily.
You've gotten good replies so far.
One of the interesting things about the Paladin is that some specs really aren't as useful until you have much of the tree available. That's why many/most Paladins start with Ret, because with the talents that are available in the early going, it seems easiest to use the ret talents, at least up until Seal of Command.
Prot really begins to shine once you have access to Blessing of Sanctuary and Holy Shield, which isn't really the early game. The Prot AOE spec is a bit up in the air now that quest XP has been substantially buffed. It used to be very good for that doldrum area in the 40s and 50s, but to be honest those levels go by very quickly now with just doing quests, and so it's not clear whether the AOE approach to those levels is really a time saver any longer.
Once you get to Outland, you have even more options due to the gear that becomes available. For example, you can go Shockadin in Outland with the +spelldamage and +mp5 gear that seems to be handed out pretty regularly there, but which is virtually nonexistent before then. Pretty much completely changes what is viable, really.
One of the interesting things about the Paladin is that some specs really aren't as useful until you have much of the tree available. That's why many/most Paladins start with Ret, because with the talents that are available in the early going, it seems easiest to use the ret talents, at least up until Seal of Command.
Prot really begins to shine once you have access to Blessing of Sanctuary and Holy Shield, which isn't really the early game. The Prot AOE spec is a bit up in the air now that quest XP has been substantially buffed. It used to be very good for that doldrum area in the 40s and 50s, but to be honest those levels go by very quickly now with just doing quests, and so it's not clear whether the AOE approach to those levels is really a time saver any longer.
Once you get to Outland, you have even more options due to the gear that becomes available. For example, you can go Shockadin in Outland with the +spelldamage and +mp5 gear that seems to be handed out pretty regularly there, but which is virtually nonexistent before then. Pretty much completely changes what is viable, really.
tzsjynx wrote:
With the changes to the leveling system which make questing a much more rewarding option, I personally believe that if you're interested primarily in Solo play and PVP Ret is a better and quicker option.
i agree here. ret will finish most quests faster, although prot will still thrive on quests that require you to kill large numbers of mobs.
tzsjynx wrote:
Finding groups that understand you're a DPS, though, may be challenging.
here i beg to disagree. leveling up, i never encountered a group that booted me for being ret. not once. not even before 2.3. and i received many a compliment on my dps. i have even had several people invite me back to groups to be dps. i have also had people defend my dps against the few who still hate on ret.
i would say that especially pre-outlands i highly recomend a healing and a tanking set of gear. there are many times when its hard to find a healer and even more times its hard to find a tank. being willing to perform those functions will help with your popularity too.
in outlands i've found i can keep my healing gear up to date and be competent at that, but i have a very tough time personally tanking outlands instances as ret. let a group know you're ret and prefer dps'ing, but also be wiling to be flexible and you'll find that you'll be quite popular even as a ret. oh, if you are dps'ing in a group it helps to make sure you keep your gear as up date as possible. ret utility is kinda weak, so if your dps is weak too.... you can probably imagine how popular that makes you.... keeping up to date gear helps speed up solo'ing too.
ok, i'm gonna stop rambling on now.... this'll be my "ret ROCKS!" post for the day.
11 posts
Thanks all for the great replies!
It seems that I'm still up in the air with how to do it, this is where i got a bit confused in my research. It seems that there is any number of ways to level a Paladin. It's doesn't seem as clear cut as other class, like my shaman who i leveled enhancement, not that its impossible to level other specs its just plain hard in comparison. I think the best way is just to try the specs out and see what i like. ret and prot appeal to me, i dont want to heal since i already play a resto shaman. So i'll end up trying both of them i'm sure.
Thanks for all the replies.
It seems that I'm still up in the air with how to do it, this is where i got a bit confused in my research. It seems that there is any number of ways to level a Paladin. It's doesn't seem as clear cut as other class, like my shaman who i leveled enhancement, not that its impossible to level other specs its just plain hard in comparison. I think the best way is just to try the specs out and see what i like. ret and prot appeal to me, i dont want to heal since i already play a resto shaman. So i'll end up trying both of them i'm sure.
Thanks for all the replies.
My pally just dinged 50 last night as prot and its soo nice. Holy shield and BoS got upgrades, avenger's shield has been added to my bar and i think my seal of light lvled up too. My reflective damage is so nice! *hugs mithril spike, BoS, holy shield and redoubt*
39 posts
When I hit 10 with my pally, I spent my first point in prot and continued until I hit 63, when I did a respec to holy. I loved every bit of it.
I never had to worry about finding a tank, healer, or a *little* off-DPS until I hit about 45, then solo'd up to the holy respec.
For solo, I always loved the fact of, "dang, I need to be over there to interact/pick up this item...", then shouting a war-cry as I dove into about 5-6 mobs and aoe burned them to the ground. Also liked bragging to my friend about being in combat for 10 minutes straight and not having to spirit-walk.
Basically, my advice to you is not to do what everyone says is the "best". Just try something, and if you don't like it, you can always respec. When I did my paladin, I read -nothing- about the spec that I was choosing and just went for something that looked cool based on the tool-tips. :)
Anyway, before this becomes a rant, good luck in the pally world.
I never had to worry about finding a tank, healer, or a *little* off-DPS until I hit about 45, then solo'd up to the holy respec.
For solo, I always loved the fact of, "dang, I need to be over there to interact/pick up this item...", then shouting a war-cry as I dove into about 5-6 mobs and aoe burned them to the ground. Also liked bragging to my friend about being in combat for 10 minutes straight and not having to spirit-walk.
Basically, my advice to you is not to do what everyone says is the "best". Just try something, and if you don't like it, you can always respec. When I did my paladin, I read -nothing- about the spec that I was choosing and just went for something that looked cool based on the tool-tips. :)
Anyway, before this becomes a rant, good luck in the pally world.
Dang, toolofjesus, you musta had some more compitent or more understanding group mates.
Just today, while tieing up some quests in Tanaris, I got 4 seperate group invitations, no specifics except one saying "Would you like to tank ZF." Recently having specced out of Protection and dumping quite a bit of STA for STR and AGI, I'm honestly not in the mood to "gimp-tank" and so I told them forthwright "I am Retribution spec, so I don't think I'd make that great of a tank. Do you need DPS or heals?"
Out of the 4, 1 didn't respond, 1 was polite and said no, and 2 of them actually acted sarcastic back at me as if I was an idiot. Sorry but I actually have talents that produce LESS agro on purpose, I went from 3k hp at level 44 to now having 2k at 48, and my armor went from 5520 without Devotion to 3010 WITH Devotion. I just don't feel like Im the right man to tank for them. No one seems to understand Ret paladins strengths, or the fact that I can often top Druids Hunters Warlocks and Mages in the damage department.
For me though, I don't care one bit. I'm Ret to quest/grind and then at 49 to BG for Boots and Bracer upgrades so that I can switch back to Prot and tank again. Id rather be alone anyways~
Just today, while tieing up some quests in Tanaris, I got 4 seperate group invitations, no specifics except one saying "Would you like to tank ZF." Recently having specced out of Protection and dumping quite a bit of STA for STR and AGI, I'm honestly not in the mood to "gimp-tank" and so I told them forthwright "I am Retribution spec, so I don't think I'd make that great of a tank. Do you need DPS or heals?"
Out of the 4, 1 didn't respond, 1 was polite and said no, and 2 of them actually acted sarcastic back at me as if I was an idiot. Sorry but I actually have talents that produce LESS agro on purpose, I went from 3k hp at level 44 to now having 2k at 48, and my armor went from 5520 without Devotion to 3010 WITH Devotion. I just don't feel like Im the right man to tank for them. No one seems to understand Ret paladins strengths, or the fact that I can often top Druids Hunters Warlocks and Mages in the damage department.
For me though, I don't care one bit. I'm Ret to quest/grind and then at 49 to BG for Boots and Bracer upgrades so that I can switch back to Prot and tank again. Id rather be alone anyways~
You probably should have kept your tanking armor and just gotten a new set for ret. You still could have tanked those instances. The talent that reduces aggro goes away when you put up RF. Will you have as much reflection damage? No not really, but your single-target will be substantial enough for them to burn through mobs one at a time and consecration should be enough to keep all the mobs on you to avoid the healers taking damage.
True, I just DE'd alot of my stuff.
I'm doing this as practically and efficiently as I can and while I'm sure it wasn't the best of ideas I knew when I specced Ret exactly what I was doing. I didn't want to AE Grind up to 50, but when I was 50 I wanted to do more Instances. I also wanted to run the 49 Bracket a while. Ret allows me to do this in my opinion a bit better so I went with that option.
Simply switching back to Protection with the right talents and Sword and Board (one thing I definatly did not DE) I'll see my HP Jump back up a pretty considerable amount, and my armor will most definatly be higher than it was at 44 even with my current Ret gear. I also saved some STA/INT pieces that are now switched out with AGI/STR pieces for when I switch back, but only the considerably nice ones (for example - Triune Amulet for Prot, Woven Ivy Necklace for Ret.)
I'd rather just get to 50, run through ZF with 2 Mage friends, a Lock friend, and a Priest friend and take out 15 at a time than have to fight for agro from 1 Rogue or Mage doing single targets.
I'm doing this as practically and efficiently as I can and while I'm sure it wasn't the best of ideas I knew when I specced Ret exactly what I was doing. I didn't want to AE Grind up to 50, but when I was 50 I wanted to do more Instances. I also wanted to run the 49 Bracket a while. Ret allows me to do this in my opinion a bit better so I went with that option.
Simply switching back to Protection with the right talents and Sword and Board (one thing I definatly did not DE) I'll see my HP Jump back up a pretty considerable amount, and my armor will most definatly be higher than it was at 44 even with my current Ret gear. I also saved some STA/INT pieces that are now switched out with AGI/STR pieces for when I switch back, but only the considerably nice ones (for example - Triune Amulet for Prot, Woven Ivy Necklace for Ret.)
I'd rather just get to 50, run through ZF with 2 Mage friends, a Lock friend, and a Priest friend and take out 15 at a time than have to fight for agro from 1 Rogue or Mage doing single targets.
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