Some days, I really hate BlizzardFollow

I would be a lot more logical to boost the damage of backstab and Mutilate (a 41 point ability, that needs you to be behind a target, needs the target to be poisoned, need you to have done a finisher (Find Weakness) and have imp KS in order to do as much damage as Mortal Strike) rather then removing Resilience. :(

Edited, Dec 11th 2007 12:36am by Tyrandor

probably tyr. but who knows exactly why blizz does some things? on the one hand, maybe theyre all just crazy, but then again, there might be some kind of method to their madness. at least theyre not above undoing what theyve done, as witnessed by some of their previous actions.



id have to disagree with that. warriors were hit just as hard, since crits are a prime source of rage, and rage is where warriors get damage. i put rogues equal with warriors, and slightly above fire mages in terms of how hard resilience hurt them.

as for the crit damage....is that assuming talents? last i checked rogues got 2x crit on all stuff untalented, and nothing improves white crit damage, at least not as far as modifiers go. lethality brings that up, but its not a 30% increase either, its actually just a 15% increase on the total damage because its increasing the crit damage bonus, not the entire crit.

True, but you at least make legible insults that make most people chuckle unless they're the one you're unleashing wrath upon.

after a while, no matter how good they are, people start to avoid playing with them.

sure they find new people, but those leave them too after a while.

Considering warriors are the most played/represented in nearly every arena bracket I'd have to disagree with you here quor.

You forget that Mortal Strike does just as much as mutilate, then Warriors have their naturally heavy white damage added on that, with intercept. It's like, they get all good aspects of every rogue tree compiled into one (heavy hitting unconditional mutilate that automatically applies 5x wound poison, heavy hitting white damage and fear/stun resist added to extra survivability, and a shorter cooldown shadowstep with a stun on the end). This isn't a whine saying they're OP, but saying resilience affected the class as much as it did rogues is just...no.

Edit:

Imagine if you had to keep Hamstring up on people to get decent MS damage, and you had to be behind someone. Now also imagine people can dispel hamstring with cleanse and when you don't crit with MS it hits for around ~800. Now imagine someone having gear reducing your crit chance by ~10%. Now imagine you're in leather and have no intercept. That's about what playing a dagger rogue is like.

Edited, Dec 11th 2007 9:14am by Shaolinz

Uh, 30% crit increase is still 30% damage increase; a crit is normally 200% normal strike damage, Lethality adds an extra 30% to the crit bonus only (which is 100% of normal damage), bringing it up to 130%, for a total of 230% over normal damage.

Arbitrary example: White hit for 650, + 100% for a crit without Lethality makes 1300; increase the crit bonus with Lethality by 30%, making 650 * 1.3 (130%) = 845 crit bonus damage, 650 + 845 = 1495, and 650 * 2.3 (230%) is still 1495. You've achieved a 130% increase over your normal white hit.

Bah, I feel dumb now...forgot to work it out in reverse. Thanks for the correction :P

Edited, Dec 11th 2007 12:40pm by Norellicus

For having many discussion about warriors and rogues with Quor, I can tell you everything becomes clearer when you take his view on the topic.

He doesn't see Warrior as the fully armored harbinger of death they are, but rather as 8 years old red-haired orphans, shaking feebly as they present their soup bowl, and whispering, "Can I have some more?".

How that view came into being is a mystery to me however, and it is unshakable no matter how many empirical evidences you bring forth. Keeping in mind that this is the paradigm under which he operates will avoid you a lot of frustration.

and you think rogues are the red-headed stepchildren of blizzad, but i cant for the life of me ever seem to find one of these incredibly easy to kill rogues that exemplify the fountain of free honor you seem to think rogues are. ok, that's not entirely fair, because you dont think that, just like i dont think warriors are helpless babes being abused in sweat shops to feed consumerism across the world.

besides, this isnt a war v rogue thing, more of a "lemme clear this up for you" thing that confuses a lot of people (both wars AND rogues). it happens a lot regarding impale in the arms tree too.



nah, youre reading it wrong. it increases the crit strike bonus damage. not the crit strike damage.

melee crits get a 100% bonus over the normal damage, so if you hit for 100, you crit for 200. we all know that. increasing the crit stike bonus damage only increases the damage awarded as extra due to it being a crit. in other words, its 30% of that 100 extra damage, so you're getting 230, which sounds like what you said, but its not. its actually 215% instead of 230%, because if it was 230% damage you would see an increase of 160 (instead of 130) over the original 100. 30 damage is 15% of 200 damage, but is 30% of the 100 extra damage awarded on crit.

every skill that states it affects crit bonus damage works in the same way. the ice mage talent (whos name escapes me) increases crit stike bonus damage by 100%, which effectively means ice spells crit like normal melee crits do (at +100% damage instead of +50% like all other spells). impale adds 20% to crit strike bonus damage on warrior yellow attacks, which comes out to be a 10% increase in damage over a non-impaled crit strike (much like lethality is a 15% increase in damage over a non-lethality crit).

does that clear it up? its more of a semantics thing than anything else, and, imo, its more confusing than it needs to be. itd be nicer if it just said "increases crit strike damage by 15%" and youd pretty much get the same effect, altho im sure theres some kind of nuance that prevents that kind of thing from working in practice.

as for the mace spec, thanks mage, i didnt know that. it does seem like mace is a flat 5% increase in crit damage, which would apply to white damage. its one of two talents i know of that affect white damage crits instead of just special crits (the other being druid predatory instincts).

Edited, Dec 11th 2007 12:47pm by Quor

bg'in is one thing. arena is another. 1v1 vs a mage in arena is 5 minutes of kiting, novaing, polying, eating, and drinking while the mage waits for his cooldowns to refresh, and then 45s of me pillar humping and spell reflecting to outlast the assault, then back to more kiting/polying/novaing >.<

i hate frost mages so much.

glad to see youre having fun on the mage again tho.

You, sir, are a liar...or confused about which faction you rolled.

Yeah, in which case you iceblock. >_>