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arena gear for raiding?Follow
9 posts
hi, i was just interested in some feedback as to whether or not season 1 arena gear would be ok to start raiding with? any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thanks
short question, short answer. A few pieces are ok, but don't use too many pvp items. They are made for pvp, some stats are comparable to good pve items, but you'll lack int, mana and attack power.
9 posts
thanks, any idea what pieces would be best?
The non-set PvP epics are the most comparable to PvE gear. Those are the boots, belt and the bracers. You miss out on a lot of Hit Rating with PvP gear, which is important in raiding. You need about 144 hit to never miss the bosses.
So I'd say, use a piece or two if you're having a hard time getting your hands on pieces in the Pre-Raid Gearlist thread, but replace them with PvE gear as soon as you can if you're raiding.
So I'd say, use a piece or two if you're having a hard time getting your hands on pieces in the Pre-Raid Gearlist thread, but replace them with PvE gear as soon as you can if you're raiding.
I WOULD recommend the crossbow. Maybe a ring or two of S3 honor gera. But not the rest.
Um, you guys looked at the Vengeful Gladiator's set at all? It's phenomenal for dps, some items at least comparable to Rift Stalker. Merciless isn't nearly as good due to no hit or Ignore Armour, but if you arena a lot there's no reason whatsoever to not get full Vengeful.
Just to back up my post, here's a stat comparison of T4 versus Vengeful Gladiator's:
Gloves: +5 agi, -9 int, +19 crit rating, -6 mp/5, -18 AP, +5% multi shot damage
Legs: -6 agi, -3 hit rating, -12 int, -22 AP, +84 ignore armour, +25 crit rating
Helm: -2 agi, -5 int, +12 hit, +26 crit, -8 AP, +84 ignore armour, - 1 yellow socket, +1 red socket
Chest: +1 agi, -14 int, +12 hit, +25 crit, -32AP (lol), -6 mp/5, +84 ignore armour, -2 blue sockets, +1 red, +1 yellow socket
Shoulders: +35 agi (lol), -11 int, -3 crit, -14 AP, -5mp/5
Assuming 8 agi in red sockets, 8 crit rating in yellow sockets and 4 agi 6 stamina in blue sockets, the total stats are:
11.1% crit
432 AP
88 int = 1320 mana
2.29% hit
252 ignore armour
5.78% crit
497 AP
139 int = 2085 mana
17 mp/5
So without looking at talents, you lose 65AP, 17 mp/5 and 765 mana. You gain 5.32% crit, 2.29% hit and 252 ignore armour (~63 AP on Shade of Aran, ~40 AP on Gruul). You end up with 25 more agility, which is a plus for Survival hunters. The 5% multi damage comes to a 0.3% increase in your dps in a 1:1 multi priority rotation, though it might be more with Barrage. If the mana is really a dealbreaker for you, I guess I won't be able to persuade you otherwise, but Vengeful is a clear winner over Demon Stalker in my books.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 6:12am by shenlongxz
Just to back up my post, here's a stat comparison of T4 versus Vengeful Gladiator's:
Gloves: +5 agi, -9 int, +19 crit rating, -6 mp/5, -18 AP, +5% multi shot damage
Legs: -6 agi, -3 hit rating, -12 int, -22 AP, +84 ignore armour, +25 crit rating
Helm: -2 agi, -5 int, +12 hit, +26 crit, -8 AP, +84 ignore armour, - 1 yellow socket, +1 red socket
Chest: +1 agi, -14 int, +12 hit, +25 crit, -32AP (lol), -6 mp/5, +84 ignore armour, -2 blue sockets, +1 red, +1 yellow socket
Shoulders: +35 agi (lol), -11 int, -3 crit, -14 AP, -5mp/5
Assuming 8 agi in red sockets, 8 crit rating in yellow sockets and 4 agi 6 stamina in blue sockets, the total stats are:
11.1% crit
432 AP
88 int = 1320 mana
2.29% hit
252 ignore armour
5.78% crit
497 AP
139 int = 2085 mana
17 mp/5
So without looking at talents, you lose 65AP, 17 mp/5 and 765 mana. You gain 5.32% crit, 2.29% hit and 252 ignore armour (~63 AP on Shade of Aran, ~40 AP on Gruul). You end up with 25 more agility, which is a plus for Survival hunters. The 5% multi damage comes to a 0.3% increase in your dps in a 1:1 multi priority rotation, though it might be more with Barrage. If the mana is really a dealbreaker for you, I guess I won't be able to persuade you otherwise, but Vengeful is a clear winner over Demon Stalker in my books.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 6:12am by shenlongxz
And you just proved that PvP gear is suboptimal for raiding.
S3 is the same tier as T6.
S2 = T5
S1 = T4
And if you compare those, PvP gear isnt good for pve.
The reason Vengeful is equal to T5 is simply because it is a much higher itemlvl and thus has a way bigger budget to play with.
S3 is the same tier as T6.
S2 = T5
S1 = T4
And if you compare those, PvP gear isnt good for pve.
The reason Vengeful is equal to T5 is simply because it is a much higher itemlvl and thus has a way bigger budget to play with.
Suboptimal compared to the same tier, yes. But seeing as you can get Vengeful before you get Demon Stalker, that doesn't really matter now, does it? Saying you shouldn't get many pieces of Arena gear to start out raiding is just plain wrong.
Edit to point out that I only just noticed that the OP said S1 arena gear, which is indeed very crap for raiding. For anyone switching from PvP to PvE though, Vengeful is more than adequate for the 25 man raid instances up to late SSC and TK.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 6:20am by shenlongxz
Edit to point out that I only just noticed that the OP said S1 arena gear, which is indeed very crap for raiding. For anyone switching from PvP to PvE though, Vengeful is more than adequate for the 25 man raid instances up to late SSC and TK.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 6:20am by shenlongxz
Now checking your stat comparison, S3 is hardly better then T4, and i even doubt that.
S3 has a severe lack of intellect wich you need for 10 minute fights.
So a few months of PvP for gear that is equal to T4 in quality doesnt look all that great to me.
Also, you seem to forget that Pre-raid usually are people who only recently dinged 70 and want to start raiding.
Not PvP veterans who want to start raiding.
I stick to what i said before, if you want to raid PvP gear just doesnt cut it.
edit: saying that you can get vengeful before T4 is pure *********
It takes a few months of time to get S3, in the same time in an active raidguild you can have full Kara/gruul epics.
And that is better for PvE then S3 is.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 3:12pm by Aethien
S3 has a severe lack of intellect wich you need for 10 minute fights.
So a few months of PvP for gear that is equal to T4 in quality doesnt look all that great to me.
Also, you seem to forget that Pre-raid usually are people who only recently dinged 70 and want to start raiding.
Not PvP veterans who want to start raiding.
I stick to what i said before, if you want to raid PvP gear just doesnt cut it.
edit: saying that you can get vengeful before T4 is pure *********
It takes a few months of time to get S3, in the same time in an active raidguild you can have full Kara/gruul epics.
And that is better for PvE then S3 is.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 3:12pm by Aethien
Seeing how my casual guild does, I doubt I'll ever see SSC TK(besides Reaver). And only option to see some kind of decent upgrade would be to get the BP, which is thankfully almost same dps value as ranger general bp. I know I wont ever see Hydross, but I as sure as heck gonna have my Veng BP in 3-4 weeks. Which is great.
I agree with Aeth on his points though. Only select pieces are indeed worth it or if all you do is pvp.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 9:18am by Elustriel
I agree with Aeth on his points though. Only select pieces are indeed worth it or if all you do is pvp.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 9:18am by Elustriel
765 mana is all of 12 seconds shooting. One multi shot, two arcane shots, two steady shots. I really don't see how 5.32% crit and 2.29% hit at the cost of 25 AP on a boss with 9999 armour and 16mp/5 is "hardly better" than tier 4.
With a 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 you can get one piece of Vengeful every 2 weeks if you manage to maintain a 1500 rating in each. At 1700 rating you just need a 2v2 and a 3v3, and at 1850 rating you can get an item a week with all the brackets.
It is possible that if you are unlucky with drops you can go weeks without an upgrade while raiding Karazhan, or days without an upgrade while running 5mans. There are horror stories of people who've only seen 1 Wolfslayer drop in all the time they've been running Kara, or people who've done Shadow Labs 40 times without getting a Sonic Spear, due to lolpallies or whatever. That cannot happen with PvP gear.
Nothing I say is "bullsh*t", its quite true that you can get S3 before T4, depending on luck and interest in PvP. Please don't dismiss the alternative options I suggest just because they aren't the same ones as yours.
With a 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 you can get one piece of Vengeful every 2 weeks if you manage to maintain a 1500 rating in each. At 1700 rating you just need a 2v2 and a 3v3, and at 1850 rating you can get an item a week with all the brackets.
It is possible that if you are unlucky with drops you can go weeks without an upgrade while raiding Karazhan, or days without an upgrade while running 5mans. There are horror stories of people who've only seen 1 Wolfslayer drop in all the time they've been running Kara, or people who've done Shadow Labs 40 times without getting a Sonic Spear, due to lolpallies or whatever. That cannot happen with PvP gear.
Nothing I say is "bullsh*t", its quite true that you can get S3 before T4, depending on luck and interest in PvP. Please don't dismiss the alternative options I suggest just because they aren't the same ones as yours.
shenlongxz wrote:
With a 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 you can get one piece of Vengeful every 2 weeks if you manage to maintain a 1500 rating in each. At 1700 rating you just need a 2v2 and a 3v3, and at 1850 rating you can get an item a week with all the brackets.
You only get Arena points for 1 team per week. Whichever one is higher rating.
Would be nice if you could get points for all 3.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 9:43am by Elustriel
Ah, I then of course apologise, it certainly would take quite a long time to get the full S3 set. I guess the old saying of arguments on the internet has proved true for me :S. Again, sorry for any confusion.
9 posts
after reading the thread about pre-raiding gear for hunters, it raised a big question for me.
what are certain requirments for a hunter and also what should my base stats be like (mana,health, crit % and such)?
what are certain requirments for a hunter and also what should my base stats be like (mana,health, crit % and such)?
Despite the resilience the s3 helm is sexy. Stats are as follows:
t5 (with 8 crit yellow gem) vs s3 (with 8 agility gem)
40 agi vs 41 agi
42 stam vs 61 stam
25 int vs 22 int
0 hit vs 12 hit
0 armor pen vs 84 armor pen
0 resilience vs 26 resilience
8 crit vs 26 crit
10 mp/5 vs 0 mp/5
122 AP vs 99 AP
So instead of waiting two months spending no DKP and hoping I get a helm drop off of Vashj I think I will spend the 6 weeks ( i suck at pvp or choosing teams or something) farming Arena honor for a comparable (in my case better) s3 helm. I for one stick to the SS, KC, AS rotation 75% of the time (never clips my AS that way and am BM of course) so Int and mp/5 matter little. So what I gotta sip a potion here and there for the long bosses. Gimme crit and hit. I think the Armor penetration cancels out that AP difference as well, if not making the s3 helm better.
Oh yea, I think this makes s3 helm indisputably better then t4 but I am not gonna do the stats.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 2:50pm by ithikul
t5 (with 8 crit yellow gem) vs s3 (with 8 agility gem)
40 agi vs 41 agi
42 stam vs 61 stam
25 int vs 22 int
0 hit vs 12 hit
0 armor pen vs 84 armor pen
0 resilience vs 26 resilience
8 crit vs 26 crit
10 mp/5 vs 0 mp/5
122 AP vs 99 AP
So instead of waiting two months spending no DKP and hoping I get a helm drop off of Vashj I think I will spend the 6 weeks ( i suck at pvp or choosing teams or something) farming Arena honor for a comparable (in my case better) s3 helm. I for one stick to the SS, KC, AS rotation 75% of the time (never clips my AS that way and am BM of course) so Int and mp/5 matter little. So what I gotta sip a potion here and there for the long bosses. Gimme crit and hit. I think the Armor penetration cancels out that AP difference as well, if not making the s3 helm better.
Oh yea, I think this makes s3 helm indisputably better then t4 but I am not gonna do the stats.
Edited, Dec 10th 2007 2:50pm by ithikul
9 posts
thanks a bunch, just purchased the helm because of what u said. but yet again, does any 1 have the pre requirments for raiding kara?
im thinking of going mostly BM with a little MM tied in
any tips are greatly appreciated
im thinking of going mostly BM with a little MM tied in
any tips are greatly appreciated
Check out the pre-raid sticky, i would link it but im lazy :P
As far as the arena gear goes, the s2 shoulders are better then t4 and they are cheap, other then that, theres better out there.
As far as the arena gear goes, the s2 shoulders are better then t4 and they are cheap, other then that, theres better out there.
9 posts
alright, thanks again guys.
Also recall the OP was asking about SEASON ONE arena gear. And I used wowdigger.com to put the S1 arena gear and the S3 honor gear up on my guy on another thread, it came up to about 200-300 AP less than kara benchmarks, 500 mana less, 5% more crit, and an abysmal amount of +hit. Not to mention the agility (if SV specced) was about 200 below the recommended.
9 posts
that would explain why no 1 likes pvp gear. thanks a bunch, i was clueless what stats i needed now. thanks
izykjr wrote:
that would explain why no 1 likes pvp gear. thanks a bunch, i was clueless what stats i needed now. thanks
PvP gear is great for what it's designed to be great for: Providing lots of AP/Crit and STA/Resiliance for high burst damage and lasting power in short duration PvP battles.
Kompera wrote:
PvP gear is great for what it's designed to be great for: Providing lots of AP/Crit and STA/Resiliance for high burst damage and lasting power in short duration PvP battles.
So please stop saying that PvP gear is better for pve then pve gear.
All the gear available for honor would actually increase my DPS by about 9% and mana pool by 1000. But, that's because I'm in greens and blues, and only one of my items is level 70 req (and yes the DPS increase is factoring in the crossbow over V longbow). Of course the purples are going to be better than those.
But if I need on average 10k honor apiece, and I need 16 pieces of equipment, and I can make 5k honor a day...I could have the gear in a month. It'd be easier just to hit heroics and get gear that matches the pre-raid gear list. And probably end up pumping out 20% more damage while lasting longer.
But if I need on average 10k honor apiece, and I need 16 pieces of equipment, and I can make 5k honor a day...I could have the gear in a month. It'd be easier just to hit heroics and get gear that matches the pre-raid gear list. And probably end up pumping out 20% more damage while lasting longer.
Aethien wrote:
Kompera wrote:
PvP gear is great for what it's designed to be great for: Providing lots of AP/Crit and STA/Resiliance for high burst damage and lasting power in short duration PvP battles.
So please stop saying that PvP gear is better for pve then pve gear.
not to anyone specific, but i believe we have 3 threads comparing S3 gear to PvE gear.
And it simply isnt better then anything else that takes an equal amount of time in PvE.
And it simply isnt better then anything else that takes an equal amount of time in PvE.
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