ROGUES: help the class, for the WOTLK expac! look hereFollow

(from blue post, posted on world of raids)

We're currently gathering class feedback from players for Wrath of the Lich King concerning thoughts on the areas of each class that is perceived to be most in need of improvement. This thread is not intended for discussion purposes and we ask that you please review the below format before presenting your feedback. It's very important for us to be able to review all provided feedback and as a result, not following the required format will very likely result in your post being removed.

• List your primary talent tree(s), i.e. Holy/Disc.
• List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...
• Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement (you may list a maximum of three issues and each issue should be described in one or two sentences).
• List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)


Please remember to be constructive when providing feedback, and avoid discussions with others so that this thread can remain a promising and reliable source for feedback. It's also important to note that we're not looking for suggestions on how aspects of your class can be improved, but rather which areas are in need of improvement by your own assessment. When we have collected enough feedback we will reply back to this thread thanking everyone for their assistance, and the thread will be locked.

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fill this out, and post it in the thread im linking at the bottom of the post... its for the good of the class, so dont post sh*t thatll just make OP and nerf targets

also, dont be a jerk and get our class destroyed

just post what you honestly think, and let the dev team know how ya feel :)

----------(this is mine)

• List your primary talent tree(s), i.e. Holy/Disc.
-Subtlety

• List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...
-Solo PVE, Solo PVP, Arena PVP

• Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement (you may list a maximum of three issues and each issue should be described in one or two sentences).

-Daggers being almost outclassed by swords/maces/fists in any area of the game. Full combat swords almost beats any dagger build in raids. AR/Prep builds, or combat maces are better for 99% of the game's PVP situations.
-Rogues being so very cooldown reliant in high-end PVP. Almost any class when they don't having their cooldowns (anything over a 120 second timer) have a shot of winning a fight; this is much harder for rogues, especially if we get attacked out of stealth, and out of cooldowns.
-Rogues not having a true 'specialty' role in any area of the game. Melee dps? We are better as far as PVE goes, but it's never needed to have a rogue around. PVP CC? Nah, any caster and hunters outclass us there. PVP DPS? 9/10 people would rather have a MS warrior.

• List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)

-Premeditation (2 free cp isn't quite as powerful as it used to be)
-Shadowstep (current form is great, just a 1 second snare effect is all it needs, so we can land the move we 'stepped to hit)
-Vigor (again, extra 10 energy isn't quite the same as it used to be)
-Expose Armor (since you added armor ignore, the situations where you would need an expose armor for the extra dps woudl either be overkill of their remaining armor, or not quite the dent 3-5 CP should do)
-Ambush (when was the last time anyone used it seriously, PVP or PVE?)

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fill out the little forum, like i did... and go http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3271069567&postId=32358280002&sid=1#0 there to post and let them know what needs to change

(when i tried to post, the link was down... so hopefully itll work later)

Edited, Dec 7th 2007 11:12am by mongoosexcore

I read through the pages. Sadly, there aren't many well thought out replies like yours. The problem with asking a population for feedback and recommendations is that 50% of the population falls in to that the IQ < 100 domain.

I'm banned from O-boards, will anyone post mine?

Maybe they'll actually fix Vanish now.

You know what the easiest fix for vanish would be? When you do it, anything targeting you has its cast interrupted, and autoattacks are turned off for .1 seconds. Fixed. No temporary immunity, no unbreakable stealth, just make all attacks stop while the server catches up.

Not really that hard to code at all. There are already plenty of effects that turn off auto-attack and interrupt casting.

I still say a two second stealth shield where the rogue takes all damage done to him but can't lose stealth.

Sorry, new rogue here. Why is this useless? I would assume this is a good opener on mages? Also I use it all the time while leveling, so I would assume it is good for non instance things like dailies/farming? Or am I wrong? please tell :)

It destroys clothies before 70. Then they get 10k health and 400 resilience and shrug it off like a mosquito bite.

see, my issue with premed is that while 2 cp is fine and good... it just isnt nearly as worthy as AR, not even close.... its on par with vigor, and thats barely

premed cs EA gouge openers now have stun resist to a chance negate it on all classes (next warlock to resist my cs AND my ks i will personally hunt down and kill i swear to god i will)

i just think vigor should be 15 energy now (would give mutilate burst combos the extra 5 energy to gouge in time), and premed should be (3 min cd: current effect + your opener moves (all of them) cannot be resisted/dodged/parried and now have +5 yds added to range, lasts 10 seconds)

that would make premed a hella utility move... cuz who in arena wouldnt love having a 15 yard sap? it would draw at least SOME people away from ar/prep, seeing its a GARUNTEED cs land at 10 yd range, enough to be outside cons/flare/arc-ex

thats very nice on the low end since it would set tempo would be good on any level, even 2v2 where setting a early tempo can easily win a match

honestly a lot of rogues want a talent to buff energy regen, but i dont like that idea.... whatever tree has it will either hafta be a tier TEN talent, or it would break that tree into the primary raid tree... nothing say dps increase like 9 hemos for a normal trees 8 in terms of time

we already got potentcy, we dont need a different more reliable variant




the point of the thread is while we dont know what the xpac will bring, we can steer em the right way! i mean if they think shadowstep is 110% okay as is, then its not gonna change... if everyone thinks x move needs a buff, then itll get one

i just hope this doesnt scale **** the wrong way like the 'healers get +dmg on their heal sets'
(INC: OT RANT)
that idea was great.. if it would only CERTAIN heal items, not EVERY ****** ONE

i mean what sounds better to you as a healing class SPECCED DPS?? (not a paladin basically)

40 spell dmg flat? or 81 healing for emergencys AND 27 dmg??

13 dmg for 41 healing? thats pvp op ******** haha, resto druid packing tons of heals and good moonfire hits.... ya that was a terrible decision

you know what pieces deserved the +dmg? tier 4-5-6 and raid pieces, not pvp ****.... no one in raids cares if they get dmg since they only use it to farm (the main point of the decision to begin with was to make healers more fun to play)

giving a pvp titan disc pri a +600 spell dmg sw:pain for free is stupid... giving a tier 5 raiding resto sham a farming mode in terms of elem. dps is a good idea

how ****** ridiculous...

Because Cheap Shot -> SnD is faster DPS than a frontloaded Ambush.

put it this way, how many yelled for daggers to be good for pvp? then what happened? mutilate

• List your primary talent tree(s), i.e. Holy/Disc.

-Combat

• List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...

-PvP

• Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement (you may list a maximum of three issues and each issue should be described in one or two sentences).

-Resilience and huge stamina totals have utterly destroyed the burst damage potential that defined the rogue class prior to BC.
-Despite the recent changes to shadowstep, mobility is still a huge issue for rogues, especially since the opportunity cost involved with speccing shadowstep is far too steep for most rogues to pay (AR/prep).
-Dagger builds are dead for serious PvP, which is totally inconsistent with Blizzard's original concept for the class. Pull up your roll-a-toon screen. What symbol represents the rogue class? A dagger. /boggle


• List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)

-A resilience mitigation aspect to trees that favor dagger use. Example: Cold Blood: When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next offensive ability by 100% and causes that attack to ignore 50% of your target's resilience. Alternatively (or both?): Find Weakness: Your finishing moves increase the damage of all offensive abilities by 2/4/6/8/10% and cause your offensive abilities to ignore 5/10/15/20/25% of your target's resilience.
-Sprint: ~5 second duration, ~45 second cooldown.
-Shadowstep: reduce cooldown to 15 seconds, or keep it at 30 seconds and make it trainable.
-Vanish: Change spell name to "Maybe" to better reflect the true theme of this ability (suggestion stolen from o-boards)
-Imp. EA: Add a -resil% component to this.