So I re-spec'd my warrior so I could I could make use of an epic 2 hander I acquired. I had to unlearn my protection talents and dumped them into arms. So far I am loving the amount of damage I'm creating. As far as grouping up goes, I haven't been so lucky. I get invited to groups under the assumption that I am going to tank. I hate tanking for the following reasons. More often than not I get paired up with a healer who heals everyone but the tank. I end up dying and the insults start flying about my ability to tank. Also lack of communication. I need to know you are ready before I charge into a mob and start aggro. There are many more reasons but this is about something else.
So my issue is that I still want to be involved in groups running instances and what not but all I am wanted for is tanking. I don't want to base my whole playing experience around what other people want me to be in order to benefit their own good. 90% of my time is spent questing and BG's. And carrying a 2 hander with arms talent makes these a whole lot quicker and funner. Is tanking all a warrior is good for?
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I know its sad that this happens, being able to hit high and kill fast is fun and great for questing and a warrior is not only good for tanking sure its nice to have a warrior tank but you dont need a warrior to tank. Since you quest and BG 90% of the time having a 2H is good but if you do a dungeon and their saying u have to tank then use a 1H and shield, also let the group your in know that your not a protection spec warrior and if theres someone in the group who could tank better though a warrior is supposed to tank damage and keep aggro to help the party and if you get kicked out because you refuse to tank just go do something else or find a protection warrior who loves to tank and group with him so they tank you use 2H.
A lock advertised that he/she needed a dps for Heroic Mech earlier today. I whipered her fast and said Im a fury warrior with 1628 AP and 8,4k hp unbuffed. The lock didn't even care to reply.
That's why I'm gonna spec between tanking and dps for a while until I get fantastic dps gear...
We're discriminated against in groups like this :/
That's why I'm gonna spec between tanking and dps for a while until I get fantastic dps gear...
We're discriminated against in groups like this :/
I dunno, I get to dps frequently on my warrior. I set up the groups, or I run with guildies. I prefer tanking on my Druid, who I'm leveling to 70 ASAP now. I actually get bored to tears dpsing instances on my Druid, but LOVE tanking with him. Warrior, I like doing both.
45 posts
I hate to say it... but if you wanna DPS instances... dont roll a warrior.
(Before everyone flames the hell out of me, I am lvling a fury warrior atm, going to be arms at 70, for PvP)
I understand there are some good drops you want to get out of the instances, but unless you are planning on raiding, the gear you get from PvP rewards are better.
Warriors were created to tank, they gave us the arms and fury tree to make soloing not so *Bleh*
If you are wanting to raid with your warrior... better pick up some tanking gear, and respec to Prot.
I wish this wasnt the way it is, but it is. Also, im sure there are exceptions to this, but its rare.
I personally know that a fury war or arms war geared accordingly is capable of out DPS'ing say a rogue or enhancement shammy. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the playing population, doesnt think outside of the box.
(Before everyone flames the hell out of me, I am lvling a fury warrior atm, going to be arms at 70, for PvP)
I understand there are some good drops you want to get out of the instances, but unless you are planning on raiding, the gear you get from PvP rewards are better.
Warriors were created to tank, they gave us the arms and fury tree to make soloing not so *Bleh*
If you are wanting to raid with your warrior... better pick up some tanking gear, and respec to Prot.
I wish this wasnt the way it is, but it is. Also, im sure there are exceptions to this, but its rare.
I personally know that a fury war or arms war geared accordingly is capable of out DPS'ing say a rogue or enhancement shammy. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the playing population, doesnt think outside of the box.
warriors do some good to amazing dps in raids.
45 posts
I know they do, however most players in this game are so narrow minded they cant see that.
They say oh... warrior... you tank
oh, rogue... you DPS.
oh, Priest... you heal
they dont realize that most classes are more versitile then what they were "Made" to do.
(Ok, the rogue one was a bad example... cuz there really isnt much else they can do, except open locked doors.... :P)
They say oh... warrior... you tank
oh, rogue... you DPS.
oh, Priest... you heal
they dont realize that most classes are more versitile then what they were "Made" to do.
(Ok, the rogue one was a bad example... cuz there really isnt much else they can do, except open locked doors.... :P)
Get into a good guild like I have. Then you wont have to worry about PuGs with ignorant people.
If a guild is any good, they will readily welcome a DPS warrior if they dont already have a surplus of them.
If you MUST PuG, then make sure they know you mean business. Tell them plainly that you can kick ***.
If a guild is any good, they will readily welcome a DPS warrior if they dont already have a surplus of them.
If you MUST PuG, then make sure they know you mean business. Tell them plainly that you can kick ***.
#9REDACTED,
Posted: Dec 05 2007 at 9:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) there are some issues with warriors as dps.
I'm glad you guys understand. I'm very happy with the amount of damage this epic 2 hander is dealing. I just had a few issues with some people who invited me to group and then called me stupid for not being spec'd to tank. I do carry a shield and a 1 handed sword but with an epic 2 hander in my inventory, I'd rather not. As far as guild goes, I created my own but had to boot all the members because they were never active, so I'm the only member. Which I like because I don't have to take any crap from anyone.
I just don't know enough about this game to explain to those who have a problem with my spec. I got tired of getting my butt kicked in PvP and quests so I went arms and now I'm not afraid of anything.
I just don't know enough about this game to explain to those who have a problem with my spec. I got tired of getting my butt kicked in PvP and quests so I went arms and now I'm not afraid of anything.
It's been said before, so I'll just reiterate it .. forget PUGs if you want to be a DPS warrior in a 5-man. Get yourself into a good guild with understanding people who know what a DPS warrior can do.
I'm fortunate (although not Uniquely so) to be in a guild who are quite happy to take me into Heroics as a Fury warrior ... a big contributing factor is that one of our officers (who MT's for our Kara runs) has his heart in DPS ... he would rather do that than tank. But he's very well geared for tanking, so he tanks (he has alts that he does dps with). He continuously encourages me to get my DPS gear up and work on being the best DPS / OT that I can be.
We did an SL run the other night where we made a bad pull ... 8 mobs were running around causing havoc .. after the initial mayhem, the tank was able to grab the attention of 3 of them .. the mage sheeped one, the lock seduced another, and I (After quickly equipping what little tanking gear I have .. yes I carry a 1h and a shield everywere) grabbed the attention of the other 3.
The mage and lock quickly dps'd the 3 that I have on me in sequence ... then we all dps'd the 3 on the tank .. and we picked off the remaining 2 at leisure. It would have been a million times harder (maybe impossible) if there had been a rogue in my place.
I have NEVER been accepted into a PUG as a dps warrior ... people just don't seem to understand what it is we can do.
Get yourself into a good guild and swing that loverly 2 hander ... which btw, you have failed to mention what it is ... you can't start but telling us you aquired an epic 2 hander and neglect to tell us what it is :-)
I'm fortunate (although not Uniquely so) to be in a guild who are quite happy to take me into Heroics as a Fury warrior ... a big contributing factor is that one of our officers (who MT's for our Kara runs) has his heart in DPS ... he would rather do that than tank. But he's very well geared for tanking, so he tanks (he has alts that he does dps with). He continuously encourages me to get my DPS gear up and work on being the best DPS / OT that I can be.
We did an SL run the other night where we made a bad pull ... 8 mobs were running around causing havoc .. after the initial mayhem, the tank was able to grab the attention of 3 of them .. the mage sheeped one, the lock seduced another, and I (After quickly equipping what little tanking gear I have .. yes I carry a 1h and a shield everywere) grabbed the attention of the other 3.
The mage and lock quickly dps'd the 3 that I have on me in sequence ... then we all dps'd the 3 on the tank .. and we picked off the remaining 2 at leisure. It would have been a million times harder (maybe impossible) if there had been a rogue in my place.
I have NEVER been accepted into a PUG as a dps warrior ... people just don't seem to understand what it is we can do.
Get yourself into a good guild and swing that loverly 2 hander ... which btw, you have failed to mention what it is ... you can't start but telling us you aquired an epic 2 hander and neglect to tell us what it is :-)
Why even bother running instances with people like that? Don't let it get you down. Just remember that those people are idiots, and you don't want to waste your time running a 2-3 hour instance with them. It will just be annoying.
If you want to DPS in a group, put a group together yourself. First thing you should do is look for a tank (druid, warrior, or pally) so the spot is filled :) Therefore, no one can complain that you are not tanking. Use the "who" function, and you can pst only specific classes to start. Just a thought. That is what I do, and have had decent success.
One thing I love doing is offering a Priest a DPS spot if we already have a healer. They usually love that too. Everyone wins!
Of course, the other option is to be in a good guild. But that is not always easy either...
If you want to DPS in a group, put a group together yourself. First thing you should do is look for a tank (druid, warrior, or pally) so the spot is filled :) Therefore, no one can complain that you are not tanking. Use the "who" function, and you can pst only specific classes to start. Just a thought. That is what I do, and have had decent success.
One thing I love doing is offering a Priest a DPS spot if we already have a healer. They usually love that too. Everyone wins!
Of course, the other option is to be in a good guild. But that is not always easy either...
devioususer wrote:
warriors do some good to amazing dps in raids.
Correction. Any class, yes even Ret pally are amazing dps if you have a person that knows what he/she is doing, with slight variances depending on progression of gear and the fights. As sad as it is, a lot of people who play said dps classes, are anything but as I have had the displeasure to find out. So meeting a likeminded person is rare, but when you do, a lot of fun.
So in the end, if you do go DPS route as war, be sure to read forums for relevant info and actually dps, once you do well and group a bit, you will simply build rep and people will invite you back, and who said dps wars aren't CC? Offtanking is CCing alright.
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 10:27am by Elustriel
#15REDACTED,
Posted: Dec 06 2007 at 7:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) the dps ability of diferent classes do vary alot, and is way more dependent on gear than skill in most cases. the skill first become a factor when its about staying alive, using other utilities and not getting aggro.
Buzak wrote:
the dps ability of diferent classes do vary alot, and is way more dependent on gear than skill in most cases. the skill first become a factor when its about staying alive, using other utilities and not getting aggro.
and no, offtanking is not CC.. if you tank you require healing as well as the tank, that meens the group would in most situations be better off with the real tank taking all the damage.
not saying its not a valuable utility at some situations, but you just cant replace a CC class in heroics for a dps warrior who will offtank adds.
Buzak
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 10:46am by Buzak
and no, offtanking is not CC.. if you tank you require healing as well as the tank, that meens the group would in most situations be better off with the real tank taking all the damage.
not saying its not a valuable utility at some situations, but you just cant replace a CC class in heroics for a dps warrior who will offtank adds.
Buzak
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 10:46am by Buzak
I disagree, gear is of course important but skill is the main thing. I just had many fortunate and unfortunate experiences to support that, geared dps* war, that is on same gear progression as I, does 600thousand dmg less than me, on the other end of the spectrum, a blue geared war doing amazing dmg for his gear lvl and list goes on. As for CCing by offtanking, well dps wars wear mostly plate and still have access to defensive and quite a few true tank abilities and are way less squishy than others.
I hate tanking on my warrior but have the gear to do the DPS. If someone asks me to tank, I tell them no, or that I can dps better than they can (which for normal runs, is the truth, and even most heroics). They usually ignore me after that, or don't reply, which is fine. My guild loves taking me on Heroic runs because they know I can DPS. The only time I'm ever 2nd on the dmg meter is H. Mech due to the AoE a Mage can do, and H. SV, but even then I've done pretty well with SS and WW. I normally out dmg people in Heroics by 100k-300k. Next time I run one, I'll try a print screen of the DMG meters.
As for your 2h situation, if you want to do dungeons as DPS, drop the 2h, unless its UBER, and grab 1h's and spec to fury. lol I know you don't like getting raped in BG's, but it gives me satisfaction to beat someone as a pure PVE specced warrior.
If you join a guild and start raiding, you'll be better off going fury IMO. In Kara I'm usually number 1. In HKM and Gruul, I'm easily in the top 5 if I don't die. (normally our tanks get weened off the threat meter because they die, and since I'm melee, I'm usually next in range to get squashed by gruul).
The only thing I'm lacking now is a better OH with the new WW and stuff getting changed. I have the Merciless Gladiators Cleaver, and its hits like a wet noodle on WW. The other DPS warriors in the group still can't hang with me, but they do pretty decent damage, so the sooner I can upgrade my OH to something else (maybe the Fury from ZA) the sooner I can pwn the meter again. But remember, not every fight is about DPS (Except Void Reaver lol..that timer sux when you're new to the instance, took us about 3 days to down him).
One last thing...if you want to do instances, look for groups that already have tanks, or post your AP, Crit, and hit...or w/e. I normally just say i have 4/5 T4 and that works..but that may not be the case for you.
As for your 2h situation, if you want to do dungeons as DPS, drop the 2h, unless its UBER, and grab 1h's and spec to fury. lol I know you don't like getting raped in BG's, but it gives me satisfaction to beat someone as a pure PVE specced warrior.
If you join a guild and start raiding, you'll be better off going fury IMO. In Kara I'm usually number 1. In HKM and Gruul, I'm easily in the top 5 if I don't die. (normally our tanks get weened off the threat meter because they die, and since I'm melee, I'm usually next in range to get squashed by gruul).
The only thing I'm lacking now is a better OH with the new WW and stuff getting changed. I have the Merciless Gladiators Cleaver, and its hits like a wet noodle on WW. The other DPS warriors in the group still can't hang with me, but they do pretty decent damage, so the sooner I can upgrade my OH to something else (maybe the Fury from ZA) the sooner I can pwn the meter again. But remember, not every fight is about DPS (Except Void Reaver lol..that timer sux when you're new to the instance, took us about 3 days to down him).
One last thing...if you want to do instances, look for groups that already have tanks, or post your AP, Crit, and hit...or w/e. I normally just say i have 4/5 T4 and that works..but that may not be the case for you.
The factors as I see them:
1. Public opinion. Most people prefer to simplify what a Warrior is in their mind to: Tank. If you run pickup groups, you have to deal with this common opinion - usually by communicating when (or before) you join the group that you're not joining it to tank.
2. Tanks are in high demand. Like any DPS class you will experience times when your group just can't find a tank. Unlike other DPS classes, you're going to be the one taking flak over it because you could potentially tank (and therefore others will perceive you as the reason they can't run the instance to get better gear.)
3. Leveling. Questing is the fastest way to level. DPS spec is the fastest way to quest. So while leveling, many tanks go for a DPS spec. This doesn't prevent you from tanking pre-Outlands content. Tanking in off-spec is easy in pre-Outlands content and I have very little respect for any tank (or healer) who uses their off-spec as an excuse not to tank (or heal).
Personally it's still gonna take a little trying/failing to convince me that post-Outlands Normal-difficulty instances can't be done in offpsec too, but I think the reason I feel that way might've been that my shaman in elemental spec had access to all his pre-BC raiding healbot gear while going through these dungeons the first time, whereas my warrior has less than half a set of dedicated tanking gear.
1. Public opinion. Most people prefer to simplify what a Warrior is in their mind to: Tank. If you run pickup groups, you have to deal with this common opinion - usually by communicating when (or before) you join the group that you're not joining it to tank.
2. Tanks are in high demand. Like any DPS class you will experience times when your group just can't find a tank. Unlike other DPS classes, you're going to be the one taking flak over it because you could potentially tank (and therefore others will perceive you as the reason they can't run the instance to get better gear.)
3. Leveling. Questing is the fastest way to level. DPS spec is the fastest way to quest. So while leveling, many tanks go for a DPS spec. This doesn't prevent you from tanking pre-Outlands content. Tanking in off-spec is easy in pre-Outlands content and I have very little respect for any tank (or healer) who uses their off-spec as an excuse not to tank (or heal).
Personally it's still gonna take a little trying/failing to convince me that post-Outlands Normal-difficulty instances can't be done in offpsec too, but I think the reason I feel that way might've been that my shaman in elemental spec had access to all his pre-BC raiding healbot gear while going through these dungeons the first time, whereas my warrior has less than half a set of dedicated tanking gear.
I feel you on the irration of being a tank in an instance. I was lucky enough to find a good guild to do instances with my prot pally. Even then, though, I lay down ground rules for the group:
-if anyone besides the tank is taking damage, somebody is doing something wrong
-do not pull anything until the tank has aggro locked (unless we have a designated puller working with the tank on clumped groups)
Nice thing is that our usual healer is also the guild master, so she backs me up. We actually had a guildie huntard decide he wanted to do his own thing in a SM Cath run a couple days ago, pulling everything in sight before we could do anything, and ignoring requests to stop. Needless to say, he isn't part of our guild anymore ;)
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 12:49pm by hcddog
-if anyone besides the tank is taking damage, somebody is doing something wrong
-do not pull anything until the tank has aggro locked (unless we have a designated puller working with the tank on clumped groups)
Nice thing is that our usual healer is also the guild master, so she backs me up. We actually had a guildie huntard decide he wanted to do his own thing in a SM Cath run a couple days ago, pulling everything in sight before we could do anything, and ignoring requests to stop. Needless to say, he isn't part of our guild anymore ;)
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 12:49pm by hcddog
Quote:
Correction. Any class, yes even Ret pally are amazing dps if you have a person that knows what he/she is doing...
Hehe... I really doubt that ret pali's can dish out top 1% dps. But they CAN do some good dps yes. If you look at the makeup of top guilds, and check sws reports, or recap reports, palidans make much better healers than raid dps.
Their are things that each class is BEST at, and things that each classes can do. Just because a rogue has bandages and can spec bandage spec, doesn't mean they should be healing.
Quote:
Offtanking is CCing alright
I personally classify CC and tanking as very separate rolls, but to each their own.
Yha you won't see a ret pally topping the dmg charts but what you will see is 3% raid wide crit, another blessing, if your mt is a prot pally you can get judgement of light or wisdom from them to help the raid out, and a 2% increase in dmg to the party the paladin is in. Also an extra aoe tank on pulls that require it, assuming they have a good tanking set.
Ret pallies are really good for raid utility. If they can put out respectable dps (doesn't have to be top tier) they are more than welcome.
It's much like an arms warrior. Not top tier dps but 4% extra dmg to melee, 381 extra AP for their party (or 1350 hp), and another off tank.
Come to think of it the only class that doesn't have any raid utility right now is rogue.
Ret pallies are really good for raid utility. If they can put out respectable dps (doesn't have to be top tier) they are more than welcome.
It's much like an arms warrior. Not top tier dps but 4% extra dmg to melee, 381 extra AP for their party (or 1350 hp), and another off tank.
Come to think of it the only class that doesn't have any raid utility right now is rogue.
Sadly, if you want to join groups as DPS as a warrior the only way that's ing to happen is if you make the group yourself, otherwise the sterotype kicks in and Warrior= tank, priest= heals and so on. The only way this ends up changing is if you get in a group and DPS the hell out of everything and everybody and people from that group invite you back because they know you kick ***.
There a ret. paladin DPSing in BT, he's called timangi from ravencrest server. So don't neglect paladins as DPS ;)
I guess I should of provided some info. The blade I picked up is this. http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?source=live;witem=647
I only have it enchanted for +5 damage. I haven't found anyone who will do fiery or icy for a reasonable price (under 50g) but I'm looking into enchants that will be the most effective. Since I got it I've done what I can to increase agility and attack power. But quests I had problems with when I was prot spec'd are a breeze even if they are a few levels ahead of me. The last group I ran in I specifically told them I wasn't tanking. There was another warrior who had a good shield and one hander but he refused to tank because I had more hp than him. Anyways I was called stupid for not being prot spec'd and the group died off really fast because the healer aggro'd too much and the other warrior refused to tank.
I have run with good groups before and I've run with really bad ones, and the really bad ones always blamed me for everything. Thats why I don't tank. I know how to pull and hold aggro just fine. What I like about warriors is you can do good amounts of damage and have loads of armor. I'm just sick and tired of running with groups that don't co-operate.
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 6:39pm by flaminroids
I only have it enchanted for +5 damage. I haven't found anyone who will do fiery or icy for a reasonable price (under 50g) but I'm looking into enchants that will be the most effective. Since I got it I've done what I can to increase agility and attack power. But quests I had problems with when I was prot spec'd are a breeze even if they are a few levels ahead of me. The last group I ran in I specifically told them I wasn't tanking. There was another warrior who had a good shield and one hander but he refused to tank because I had more hp than him. Anyways I was called stupid for not being prot spec'd and the group died off really fast because the healer aggro'd too much and the other warrior refused to tank.
I have run with good groups before and I've run with really bad ones, and the really bad ones always blamed me for everything. Thats why I don't tank. I know how to pull and hold aggro just fine. What I like about warriors is you can do good amounts of damage and have loads of armor. I'm just sick and tired of running with groups that don't co-operate.
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 6:39pm by flaminroids
I'm always #1 or 2 dps in our raids as a fury warrior...
When it comes to 5 mans, unless you're doing this with friends or guildies, don't expect too many invites as there are CC'ing classes that are much better for the job.
Same with ret paladins re:5 mans.
When it comes to 5 mans, unless you're doing this with friends or guildies, don't expect too many invites as there are CC'ing classes that are much better for the job.
Same with ret paladins re:5 mans.
flaminroids wrote:
There was another warrior who had a good shield and one hander but he refused to tank because I had more hp than him. Anyways I was called stupid for not being prot spec'd and the group died off really fast because the healer aggro'd too much and the other warrior refused to tank.
Ok, one thing you really need to be aware of is that ... especially at your level, you do NOT need to be spec'd Prot to tank ... at all. Hell I know guys who are spec'd pure dps at level 70 (17/44/0) and tank heroics with the right gear (min 490 def).
If your healer was pulling agro from you and the group was wiping too much, (and I'm assuming you were tanking), then you probably weren't generating enough threat using your specific threat generating abilities (sunders, shield block+revenge, heroic strike, thunderclap).
Also, use abilities like disarm and Demo shout .. these help reduce incoming damage quite a bit. All of these you can still do without being prot spec'd and they work perfectly well. Were you in defensive stance? But if your heart isn't in it, then it won't work (trust me, I know this, cos I've been there).
Most important though, is that if asked to tank (and you will be), and you accept (which is your decision), you must use a 1hander and shield, and tank in defensive stance. Unless you're doing an instance 6-10 levels below you, where you can actually be overgeared enough to mitigate sufficient damage without the shield, and your 2 hander does enough damage to simply maintain threat through damage alone.
Bottom line, if you're asked to run an instance and you're asked to tank, say "No Thanks", it's as simple as that. If you really want to run the instance as dps .. get your own group together. Start with finding someone who DOES want to tank, then it's off your back.
If it's your group, you can make the rules (in a manner of speaking ofc). Oh yeah, when you find that tank who's happy to run with you as DPS warrior, make best friends with him... he'll be invaluable going forward.
If that's not the way you want to do it ... don't do instances.
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