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I was wondering if any of you rogues out there have had a chance to try the new Executioner chant. If you have, do you like it and what weapon (MH/OH) are you putting it on? I'm in deep contemplation as to whether to get one or just stick with dial 'gooses. The armor reduction is nice, especially since I'm spec'd AR/Prep, having the serrated blades talents allready ripping through armor. I have no idea how often the Executioner procs (if its even a proc?). I casually raid but focus more on bg and arena, so I'm not sure how the chant would work in either scenario.What are your thoughts?
Im using it main hand, and its super rad so far. OH I still use mongoose. with all the armor ignore gear Im getting it really adds up. looking at the average boss as 7k armor. I can almost ignore their armor entirely.
I have seen it proc a ton since I have had it; along the same lines if not more than mongoose.
I have seen it proc a ton since I have had it; along the same lines if not more than mongoose.
I have it on my OH and lovin' it.
Sorry can't post more, a little tipsy >.<
Sorry can't post more, a little tipsy >.<
I have it on MH and mongoose on OH and it's crazy for pvp.
I saw a data sheet for MH Ex. OH Mongoose and it looks ridiculous. Scale it with pvp gear (armor penetration) and serrated blades, and a geared rogue will be hitting a target as hard as a normal one would with expose armor up.
In other words, it by itself isn't anything extraordinary but stack it with talents and gear and it becomes just... nasty.
Serrated Blades: +560
Executioner: +840
Vindicator's Band of Triumph: +56
Dory's Embrace: +112
Season 3 Helm: +84
Season 3 Pants: +84
Season 3 Chest: +84
Season 3 MH: +49
Season 3 OH: +49
Total: 1918 Base Armor Ignore.
That means you'll basically be hitting all targets like they've got a 4 point EA up on them WITHOUT EA up. Every point of armor adds about .0073% physical mitiagation (and this isn't linear, just on average). Add that up, and you'll see that a geared pvp rogue with all of this armor ignore will sport a ~14% DPS increase. That's substantial!
In other words, it by itself isn't anything extraordinary but stack it with talents and gear and it becomes just... nasty.
Serrated Blades: +560
Executioner: +840
Vindicator's Band of Triumph: +56
Dory's Embrace: +112
Season 3 Helm: +84
Season 3 Pants: +84
Season 3 Chest: +84
Season 3 MH: +49
Season 3 OH: +49
Total: 1918 Base Armor Ignore.
That means you'll basically be hitting all targets like they've got a 4 point EA up on them WITHOUT EA up. Every point of armor adds about .0073% physical mitiagation (and this isn't linear, just on average). Add that up, and you'll see that a geared pvp rogue with all of this armor ignore will sport a ~14% DPS increase. That's substantial!
I personally prefer mongoose on my mh for pvp, but then again I've never used executioner.
I have Executioner on my MH and Mongoose on my OH. I'm extremely happy with this combo for the following reasons:
- The proc rate is higher than I anticipated, meaning it's not "once every single fight" but very often: to be frank, in pvp, I'm too focused to notice when they proc, but I've done a lot of pve these days and I have the impression that I have at least a proc on most fights, often both.
- Both enchants work in synergy: when Mongoose proces, you're hitting faster, which increases the chance that Executioner will proc... yesterday, I hit SnD, BF and AR... next time I know, I have Mongoose AND Executioner up... that's a lot of buffs for one single target and both targets were down in a few seconds. This was pve, I can't wait to see this happen in pvp.
nostra
- The proc rate is higher than I anticipated, meaning it's not "once every single fight" but very often: to be frank, in pvp, I'm too focused to notice when they proc, but I've done a lot of pve these days and I have the impression that I have at least a proc on most fights, often both.
- Both enchants work in synergy: when Mongoose proces, you're hitting faster, which increases the chance that Executioner will proc... yesterday, I hit SnD, BF and AR... next time I know, I have Mongoose AND Executioner up... that's a lot of buffs for one single target and both targets were down in a few seconds. This was pve, I can't wait to see this happen in pvp.
nostra
I checked what the DPS spreadsheet says about executioner, and it shows up only half that good as mongoose. I wonder why.
Btw, IIRC mongoose is more than 20dps.
Btw, IIRC mongoose is more than 20dps.
Quote:
- Both enchants work in synergy: when Mongoose proces, you're hitting faster, which increases the chance that Executioner will proc... yesterday, I hit SnD, BF and AR... next time I know, I have Mongoose AND Executioner up... that's a lot of buffs for one single target and both targets were down in a few seconds. This was pve, I can't wait to see this happen in pvp.
Haste has been shown to have no impact on PPM procs.
RPZip wrote:
Quote:
- Both enchants work in synergy: when Mongoose proces, you're hitting faster, which increases the chance that Executioner will proc... yesterday, I hit SnD, BF and AR... next time I know, I have Mongoose AND Executioner up... that's a lot of buffs for one single target and both targets were down in a few seconds. This was pve, I can't wait to see this happen in pvp.
Haste has been shown to have no impact on PPM procs.
RPZip from several months ago wrote:
PPM procs look at the base weapon speed, and compute a chance to hit based on that so that in a given minute, you should on average recieve the correct number of procs. An enchant that works off 2 PPM with a 4.0 speed weapon would have a ~13% chance to proc on every swing. If you can scrape together 100% haste you double your attacks in any given timespan, but it does not reduce the chance to proc on every hit; therefore, you should get on average 4 procs in every minute with 2 PPM and 100% Haste.
Instant attacks also use the same chance to proc, so classes like Rogues (Sinister Strike, Hemo, Backstab) or Warriors (Mortal Strike, Whirlwind, Bloodthirst) can do nicely - a high number of instant attacks combined with a slow weapon causes a rather large number of procs. Moreover, innate Haste effects (Slice and Dice, Flurry) also help contribute to the benefit of PPM procs.
So yes, KT, to answer the PM... it's yay!
Instant attacks also use the same chance to proc, so classes like Rogues (Sinister Strike, Hemo, Backstab) or Warriors (Mortal Strike, Whirlwind, Bloodthirst) can do nicely - a high number of instant attacks combined with a slow weapon causes a rather large number of procs. Moreover, innate Haste effects (Slice and Dice, Flurry) also help contribute to the benefit of PPM procs.
So yes, KT, to answer the PM... it's yay!
Not the same? changed recently? new tests? what gives? :P
New tests. =p
PPM effects compute chance to proc on autoattacks off the current weapon speed; if you have a 3.0 speed weapon on a 1PPM proc, you'll get a 5% chance to proc it per swing. If you get 100% haste, it'll recompute to give you a 2.5% chance to proc your new 1.5 speed weapon.
But autoattacks stay the same, using the base weapon speed to compute the PPM; Sinister Strike still have that 5% chance per use to proc the effect at 0 Haste and 100% Haste, even though the autoattack chance was reduced.
I wasn't the one doing the testing, but a fairly (read: very) long test was done with the Blasted Lands Servants between a Rogue spamming Sinister Strike without using any finishers and a Rogue spamming Sinister Strike and keeping SnD up. There was no difference in the number of procs between the two when you averaged it out over the several hours it ran, so... fairly conclusive.
Admittedly it's possible the game treats passive haste differently, but since that effect is going to be so subtle (good luck testing for a ~2% difference in chance to proc without spending days) it's just not worth it.
PPM effects compute chance to proc on autoattacks off the current weapon speed; if you have a 3.0 speed weapon on a 1PPM proc, you'll get a 5% chance to proc it per swing. If you get 100% haste, it'll recompute to give you a 2.5% chance to proc your new 1.5 speed weapon.
But autoattacks stay the same, using the base weapon speed to compute the PPM; Sinister Strike still have that 5% chance per use to proc the effect at 0 Haste and 100% Haste, even though the autoattack chance was reduced.
I wasn't the one doing the testing, but a fairly (read: very) long test was done with the Blasted Lands Servants between a Rogue spamming Sinister Strike without using any finishers and a Rogue spamming Sinister Strike and keeping SnD up. There was no difference in the number of procs between the two when you averaged it out over the several hours it ran, so... fairly conclusive.
Admittedly it's possible the game treats passive haste differently, but since that effect is going to be so subtle (good luck testing for a ~2% difference in chance to proc without spending days) it's just not worth it.
Well thanks for reporting on these new test, RPZip.
So, if I understand correctly, a Mongoose proc will change the base speed of the weapon and the proc will be recomputed so that I should still have a constant PPM.
In that case, my Executioner + Mongoose is even more valid in my eyes (as compared to a double Mongoose):
- If Mongoose was raising the proc chances, one could argue that double Mongoose would bring "double syngergy" (each weapon's procs' enhancing the chance that the other weapon would proc).
- But since it's not the case, not having a double Mongoose means I'm not loosing in terms of this "double syngergy".
I did not go double Mongoose also because, to me (doing mostly arena), a chance to have a higher armor penetration is worth more than an additional speed boost chance.
And I also did not go double Executioner because they don't stack and I do see Executioner AND Mongoose proc simultaneously, which, if I had double Executioner would mean a waste of one proc.
nostra
So, if I understand correctly, a Mongoose proc will change the base speed of the weapon and the proc will be recomputed so that I should still have a constant PPM.
In that case, my Executioner + Mongoose is even more valid in my eyes (as compared to a double Mongoose):
- If Mongoose was raising the proc chances, one could argue that double Mongoose would bring "double syngergy" (each weapon's procs' enhancing the chance that the other weapon would proc).
- But since it's not the case, not having a double Mongoose means I'm not loosing in terms of this "double syngergy".
I did not go double Mongoose also because, to me (doing mostly arena), a chance to have a higher armor penetration is worth more than an additional speed boost chance.
And I also did not go double Executioner because they don't stack and I do see Executioner AND Mongoose proc simultaneously, which, if I had double Executioner would mean a waste of one proc.
nostra
11 posts
it has been proved that executioner provides a higher dps output in terms of its proc, but this does not necissarily make it better than mongoose.
the calculations are on EJ if you want them, i dont like posting other peoples calculations in my own posts.
until the PPM rate is discovered then i will confidentally say whats the better.
my guild is doing kazzak soon and if i get the off hand from him then i will slap executioner on it and do a lot of testing, but the rate might be found out before then.
the calculations are on EJ if you want them, i dont like posting other peoples calculations in my own posts.
until the PPM rate is discovered then i will confidentally say whats the better.
my guild is doing kazzak soon and if i get the off hand from him then i will slap executioner on it and do a lot of testing, but the rate might be found out before then.
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