Re-examining Eviscerate... Follow

Once you start getting in T5 level gear and stats, Eviscerate is actually pretty good. When you run probably close to 40% crit or more raid buffed, you can get a good amount of damage.

40%? Seems a bit high there Teddy.

Even with a Feral Druid (which we don't usually bring for dps, they OT) I've yet to break 35%... I doubt the crit on T5 account for an entire 5%.



Guess you can't please everybody. That's the avatar I used between post 3kish to 9kish (I got my bouncy ball one when I became an admin).

I've had people ask me to bring it back ever since :P. Figured hitting 10k would be a good time to do it :P

Edited, Dec 4th 2007 5:10pm by Tyrandor

I was in a mix of Kara epics, PVP gear, and a few +hit pieces from dungeons in Gruuls and I would hit about 38% crit when buffed and potioned (AP max'ing at 2700 when everything proc'd). It was a dps group so, 33% without the Druid, but still.


I'm fairly certain once you are in majority T5 a benchmark is around 40% buffed in crit.

Edited, Dec 4th 2007 2:14pm by MYteddy

Nah this was after the Potion/Elixir change etc.

I think I was using the AGI+crit elixir. Normally I would flask, as it is easier, but I was on a trial run for a guild so I potioned/elixir'd up.


But you are right in the notion to start using Evis. It is pretty common to use at the Hyjal/BT level from what I have seen in videos, etc.


I was PVP Mace spec too, so had I been fist or Daggers, would of had a bit more crit.

Edited, Dec 4th 2007 2:42pm by MYteddy

True, true.

I wasn't basing it off math, though, I was just trying to figure out how often you'd use it. Murder gets a _lot_ of playtime in TK/SSC, and even where it doesn't the 2% global damage is probably more than the 30% damage on one finisher. Once you hit BT/Hyjal, it becomes a lot less of an issue (see: Most bosses are Demons or Undead).

WWS reports.


Search a fight and click on the rogues. It breaks down what skills they use.

rupture is always going to be better than evis,

so dont say the better your gear is the better evis will become myteddy, in fact, the better your gear is the better rupture will become and in comparison evis will get worse

rupture, like all bleed effects ignores armor, evis doesnt.

also, rupture is 1000 damage + 24% atack power
evis is 1204-1332 damage + 15% attack power,

so rupture scales better in that way, rupture should always be your first choice, but ofc, if the situation calls for it evis will be better, or, if like you say, the trash goes down too fast, use envenom your poison ticks will not be wasted of your enemy is about to die and ofc, it ignores armor.

Also didn't calculate the +21% dam increase if you have imp evis and agression(any pure combat build). Just plug some #s into the 2 formulas and you will see there is a point when you have enough crit% that your average evis dam will be greater than your average rupture dam. This does vary a bit due to armor mitigation, but given enough crit + the 2pc t5 set bonus(+40dam per cp to evis/envenom)this is def the case(at least for pure combat builds, with trispec hemo, imp rupture is gonna be better nearly 100% of the time)

Edited, Dec 7th 2007 1:09pm by mahlerite

Query: At what point does a fully improved Eviscerate _CRIT_ (excluding Armor Penetration, since I'm not going to calculate that) exceed a fully improved Rupture? For the sake of calculation I'm going to assume 20% Armor Mitigation, which is equivalent to a boss mob with 5x Sunder, Faerie Fire and CoReck but no personal armor penetration (or missing CoReck, or on one of about 50% of the bosses with a higher base armor).

Eviscerate: 1045 + (AP * 0.15)
Modifiers: Lethality (230% Crit Damage), Imp. Eviscerate (15% More Damage), Aggression (6% More Damage), Armor (80% of damage)


Rupture: 1000 + 8(0.03 * AP)
Modifiers: Serrated Blades (30% More Damage), Mangle (30% More Damage)

(1045 + .15 * AP) * 2.3 * 1.15 * 1.06 * .8 = (1000 + .24 * AP) * 1.3 * 1.3
(1045 + .15 * AP) * 2.24 = (1000 + .24 * AP) * 1.56
2340 + .336 * AP = 1560 + .374 * AP
780 = .038 * AP
20,526 = AP

Okay, so not anytime soon. But let's redo the math with a 40% crit rate.

(1045 + .15 * AP) * (1 + 1.3 * .4) * 1.15 * 1.06 * .8 = (1000 + .24 * AP) * 1.3 * 1.3
(1045 + .15 * AP) * 1.482 = (1000 + .24 * AP) * 1.56
1549 + .22 * AP = 1560 + .374 * AP
-11 = .154 * AP
-71.42 = AP

Okay, so only at negative amounts of AP does Eviscerate win. But what about a normal combat build, with no Serrated Blades?


(1045 + .15 * AP) * (1 + 1.3 * .4) * 1.15 * 1.06 * .8 = (1000 + .24 * AP) * 1.3
(1045 + .15 * AP) * 1.482 = (1000 + .24 * AP) * 1.3
1549 + .22 * AP = 1300 + .312 * AP
249 = .092 * AP
2706 = AP

So, without Serrated Blades you still only need 2700 AP for Rupture to still win, even with a 40% Crit Rate. Raid buffed that number isn't terribly hard to reach, so...

Rupture > Evisc

No.



So rupture is even more >> than evis.

I've never had an Evenom Resisted, but then again, I've probably used it less then 20 times in my entire WoW 'career'.

According to WoWwiki, it is affected by Nature Resistance (and obviously won't do damage to nature immume mobs) and it use your Melee Critical rate to crit (so one can assume it uses your melee +hit...).

Edited, Dec 11th 2007 5:42pm by Tyrandor

Ignoring the fact that, as Quor stated, it's actually 215% damage, am I to take this to mean that the Lethality tooltip is wrong and that the bonus applies to all yellow damage?

That would imply Rogue talents being as good as Warrior's... what kind of crazy talk is this!



Edited, Dec 11th 2007 6:27pm by Tyrandor