Shaman PvPFollow

Depends.

They proposed a nerf to the strongest spell of our strongest pvp spec. Earthshield. Giving it a 30 second cooldown at a reduced mana cost.

This would be the end of pvp resto shamans. Enhancement shamans got a decent buff to a good ability as well, but it is just as easily dispelled, meaning the two most important talents for both the enhancement tree and resto tree are easily dispelled, leaving us extremely susceptable to CC and Burst damage.

Elemental is only really good for bigger group pvp (see 5v5 or bigger) because it is large burst damage and our buffs work better the more people you have. Spam purge is still useful in 5v5 matches just because you can DPS one target down asap when there's guaranteed no bubble. But now that priests can put that Pain Suppression on other people which is undispellable (why idk) that probably won't be happening too much anymore either.

I don't feel like we're the worst off in PvP in general, we definately aren't the best or even close.

If you're really looking for a good pvp class, shaman probably isn't for you (at least not now, who knows what the future holds). So if you enjoy it, keep playing and your skill can makeup for some of the class's shortcomings.

If you want to PVP a lot don't take a shaman. It is not nice and most of the time (for me) not fun to play.

I'm usually the first target they go for and there is nothing we can do about it (no CC whatsoever).

You dont want to play resto so there goes some/only survivability (Earth Shield).

I love my shaman, probably my favorite character. PVE is a lot of fun to play.
Just because we bring so much to the group and your game play is never dull, at least not for me.

PS: I'm a resto shaman.

Draeneipally: You contradicting yourself the hole time.



and then again...



In some of your other post you say that if we get a CC effect that we will be way OP and now you say...



Weird.

Anyway...

HZ

Shaman excel in Battlegrounds where we can take advantage of teammates and mass-scale confusion to cause obscene amounts of damage. Left to our own devices, however... unfortunately, I have to agree with the general concensus that "we suck".

Duels, world PvP, and any other incarnation of a one-on-one, we fail miserably because all Shaman builds are heavily reliant on positioning (getting to or away from people), and we have almost zero control over it. We can more or less be kited or rushed down at will by every other class/spec in the game.

Our ranged snare and interrupt are both limited to a 20-yard range. Again, with the lack of positioning, that hurts as well.

We have painfully few options for negating incoming CC, and the ones we do are often "quirky" and unreliable.

We have no CC or anything else that could be used as an "Oh, snap!" button. If a melee class gets on you or a kiting class gets away from you, that's it. Game over.

Pretty much the only way to get a heal off in the heat of battle is with Nature's Swiftness unless you're Resto, and even then it's challenging.

Pretty much the only way Shaman can be effective in end-game PvP (AKA the arena) right now is to spec Resto and rely on their teammates to support them.

You know, killing lowbie players is not considered "PVP". Its called ganking.

To go into a little more detail... damage is not the issue. Both Enhancement and Elemental Shaman have damage in spades. The issue is applying that damage if your opponent is worth his salt.

An Enhancement Shaman will never make it to a kiter, and neither will an Elemental or Resto Shaman for that matter. All they have to do is stay outside of shock range (20 yards) and there's absolutely nothing we can do other than sling LB's/CL's.

Conversely, no spec of Shaman is capable of escaping a melee class. We can snare them, sure, but they can all snare us right back, and a snared person running from a snared person isn't going to put much distance between them. One Sprint, Intercept, etc., and it's GG.

And because of the two issues I just presented, you can obviously understand why it's also nearly impossible to get a heal off without Nature's Swiftness because of interrupts. Hell, pushback alone is enough to stop a heal most of the time unless you're Resto and have Earth Shield.

If you're one-shotting anyone or taking on five people at a time (I don't know any class that can do this in any bracket; even low-level twinks should be dead with five opponents), you're not high enough to have the fire elemental. Stop twinking in 30-39 BG's, get to the real end-game at 70, and then let us know how you feel after you've had a chance to make a valid assessment.

Edited, Dec 5th 2007 1:58am by Gaudion

Oh ha ha ha...nice joke. I am taliking about 70 pvp in BGs. Whether shamans are decent in arena in not is unknown to me. Look just cause I can get lucky doesn't mean you can't too so...yeah.

fire elemental...

20 min CD

Not useable in arena

Breaks CC

Yay for it..

It does good damage tho i suppose. and ontop of that it probobly scares who your fighting which might reduce their skill on their gameplay.

I suppose it has its good sides and its bad sides

After looking through your armory profile on your enhancement Shaman, I find it even harder to believe on your claims.

But as a logical person, I will try to simulate the scenarios where your claims could be realised.


I believe the frost mage to be either ebayed, afk or was distracted with something else. A WF triple crit with earthshock crit should be able to take out a clothie if they did not have enough stamina and resilience.


These 5 must be recovering from previous combat and are all very low on hp & mana. Blew all their CDs & not able to use pots yet.


So yes, you must have been extremely lucky.

Yeah... unfortunately, that makes it really hard for Blizzard or anyone else to take us seriously when we say we suck.

I mean, have you looked at the Rogues on the o-boards and the PTR? They're all throwing a fit that Hemo is getting nerfed because Rogues were "finally viable in the arena" now because of the new AR/Prep. Rogues were doing better than fine in the arena before 95% of them went AR/Prep Hemo Maces, they were just Combat Maces instead.

Warlocks will never stop complaining. They've been nerfed more than any other class in the game and they're still one of, if not the, best class for PvP and among the top three represented classes in the arena (depending on who does the research, when, and where, they could be number one, two, or three, but they're still up there regardless).

Mages show up about on average in the arena. Their Frost spec is phenominal for PvP though, they don't have much to complain about. They still do. Constantly.

I think if any of these classes tried reaching a 2000 rating playing an Elemental or Enhancement Shaman in 2v2 they might shut up and start to appreciate what they have.

Definitely agree with Gaudion's summary of PVP viability (Resto > Ele > Enh).

Enhancement has always seemed like the "kite me plz" spec, and was weaker for having no shield and needing to be in melee range to deal significant damage.

Elemental does alright damage (and is the most fun shaman spec; I love lightning bolts (: ) but in my experiences doesn't quite edge out Restoration in terms of group PVP impact. Still, I remember pre-BC when all that PVP was happening I respecced to Elemental since I'd been "raiding" specced for so long...and I tended to beat out all but the best of our mages in damage dealt while still putting up some nice healing numbers too.

For group PVP, I've always felt my resto shaman did pretty well and had good survivability, but I know I'd do better on a Paladin as a PVP healer. Still not sure how it compares to druid PVP healing. Druids have better tools for disengaging or dealing with opponents, but in healing form they're pretty vulnerable.

Edited, Dec 6th 2007 5:15pm by Axehilt

When it comes to Enhancment (and to a point, Elemental), build really isn't that much of a factor. There's just no conceivable combination of talents we have available to us that is going to solve or even cover for the overbearing weaknesses we exhibit at the moment.

If you really want to play an Enhancement Shaman in the arena, I would recommend you get yourself a partner with a lot of control and run a two DPS set-up. A Rogue would work, as would a Warlock, but a Frost Mage would be ideal.

An Enhancement Shaman paired with a healer--any healer--is a set-up for a truly spectacular failure. You can't catch any kiters, they're going to have their way with you, healing or not, and any class you won't have to chase (Warrior and Rogue most likely) is going to apply a healing debuff to you and just straight-up beat you down by matching or exceeding your damage and with far more efficient healing.