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Improved Righteous Fury and HeroicsFollow

#1 Dec 02 2007 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
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In an attempt to see where I am at with my pally tank I was adding up my stats for avoidance and to see where I stand with crushing blows etc, etc and was wondering. Do I add the 6% avoidance from Imp RF?

I know this is a buff and that your supposed to have 102.4 avoidance unbuffed but since I have this on nearly all the time should I automatically add it in?

I ran a heroic Ramps the other day and the group made it to the first boss. I explained beforehand to the group that I wasnt properly geared for heroics but since they couldnt find anyone better they seemed happy to try. Some of the group members were making it extremely hard for the healer by pulling adds and in the end we wiped a few times before calling it. It was frustrating as this was my first heroic and the some of the group members didnt really give a damn about whether we succeeded or not as they were just bored and were looking to do something (I hate Pugs and need a new guild lol).

I know my spelldamage is way off where it should be but i plan on picking up the Continuum Blade from Keepers of Time Rep since I need to run it to get keyed for Kara. I dont mind grinding rep for them either because i love the CoT dungeons.

Sorry for starting to go on a rant. Any help with gear ideas would also be be welcomed. I plan on getting the chest piece from aldor rep and if possible the D3 shoulders from Botanica

Not surehow to link my build to alla from armoury either but my details are below.

(EDIT: edited post title)

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Arthorius - Human Paladin - Khaz'garoth

Edited, Dec 3rd 2007 6:52am by arthoriuss
#2 Dec 02 2007 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
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1,594 posts
Imp RF is just a basic -6% damage. You could still be crushed or critted, but you'll take 6% less damage from them. You don't add it to avoidance, it's just a nice bit of extra help.

And you need the extra threat.
#3 Dec 02 2007 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
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713 posts
Thanks for clearing that up for me. Apart from that could someone give me a yay or nay on whether or not i should try heroics after getting the continuum blade? Or will my gear need to be more upgraded? I know my gems arent great but thats because I dont want to waste gold on better ones if my armor pieces need to improvement.

I hear that Heroic Slave Pens is a better dungeon to start off on compared to Heroic Ramps? Is this true?

Any constructive comments would be appreciated.

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Arthorius - Human Paladin - Khaz'garoth
#4 Dec 02 2007 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
At a bare minimum when you go into heroics you want to be uncritable. That means 490 defense. It *looks* like you're only one point away right now, but when you swap your sword out it's going to make that gap even bigger.

Your gear isn't terrible nor are your stats but they're not where I would be comfortable being in heroics (heck I still go down like wet tissue on a regular basis in them).

A brief checklist:

Your stam/health is OK, not great but ok (which means any changes you make to the rest better not cause a drop in that - or more pointedly don't just change your gems/enchants around and swap out stam gems for dodge gems and spell dmg enchants)

Your spell damage, you already know, is very poor. I have 170 and I drink a lot of Adept's Elixirs and the like. What I'm saying is you're going to at least want to slap the +40 Spell Dmg enchant on the Continuum Blade.

Your armor (the actual value of it, not the armor itself Smiley: grin ) is fine.

Your avoidance? Not so fine. I've run Heroics when I wasn't uncrushable so you don't necessarily need to have that solid, but not as low as you're at. You really, really need to work on stuff that ups your block rating (not value, rating) and dodge.

The thing is though it's going to feel like 2 steps forward and 3 back in some ways - you'll trade +def for avoidance on some items and then have to make up the +def - pally tank gearing is all a stat dance.

Check out Thel's defense and mitigation sticky. Some ways down the list he has a gear list for prot pallies. It may be somewhat out of date now (don't know) but it's a good place to start.

Oh, and go do the quest and pick yourself up at least some of the Shatari Wrought bracers and ditch the green ones :-)

Edited, Dec 3rd 2007 2:20am by Celcio
#5 Dec 03 2007 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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713 posts

Thanks for the advice guys.

I think my armoury hasnt been upgraded (damn you wow!) but I have the shatari bracers and the shield from Shadow Labs as well. I also have the ring from the long wildhammer quest chain too. Hopefully I can get either the D3 shoulders and the chest piece for the consecration bonus. I will upgrade gems in my Fel Steel Set since I will most likely be keeping them until I get something better.

Thanks again

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Arthorius - Human Paladin - Khaz'garoth

#6 Dec 03 2007 at 4:48 AM Rating: Good
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1,441 posts
Celcio wrote:
At a bare minimum when you go into heroics you want to be uncritable. That means 490 defense.


Nitpick: 485, heroic mobs are level 72 not 73.
#7 Dec 03 2007 at 6:14 AM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
Git yer hands off my nits!


Thanks for the correction
#8 Dec 03 2007 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent

Personally for heroics, I don't think Uncrushable is important at all. Instead I go for minimizing damange all together. If I lose 2% in block for 1% in dodge or parry, thats a good thing. Most things in heroic are still going to hit hard. Ill take less damage with one dodge, than with 2 blocks.
#9 Dec 03 2007 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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1,441 posts
If you are level 70, you are uncrushable in heroics. Uncrushable and uncrittable arent' the same things, Celcio argued for the latter, never the former.
#10 Dec 03 2007 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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ramera, Pie Eating Champion wrote:

Personally for heroics, I don't think Uncrushable is important at all.


Which is why I stated that you don't have to be uncrushable to run heroics. However if you move toward that, chances are you're going to up your avoidance (which the OP definitely needs to work on) which is going to help a lot. The thing though is that you DO want to be uncritable for the level (darn pickers of nits). Why?

An Example - The OP has 10.5K health or so unbuffed. He runs Blood Furnace and gets into that hallway/ramp with the uppercutting demon guys. 3 regular hits (within something silly like 3 seconds) on me were for between 3-4K*. 1 crit on those after a regular hit and that's a dead tank before the healer can even complete a follow-up heal or hit the Oh Sh*t button.


*This was from ONE of the two, the other one was trapped effectively.
#11 Dec 03 2007 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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*cough* If you're crushable in a heroics, you should level to 70 before attempting one. Only mobs 3 levels above you can crush. The bosses in heroics are level 72.

God I'm so pendantic I'm getting on my own nerves.
#12 Dec 03 2007 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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Alastaironsiren wrote:
*cough* If you're crushable in a heroics, you should level to 70 before attempting one. Only mobs 3 levels above you can crush. The bosses in heroics are level 72.

God I'm so pendantic I'm getting on my own nerves.


You're not the only one.

And perhaps I should clarify - when i say uncrushable I mean.... uncrushable. Not "Oh lordy where am I, let me just do some quick math here relative to my surroundings and see if I'm uncrushable" i mean, in any given current situation, you're uncrushable. Which, oddly, is the meaning of the word yes? It's not "relatedtothesituationuncrushable", who's the pedant now, huh!

(and *cough* it's pedantic, not pendantic. God this is turning into a dork slap-fight. Let's please stop.)
#13 Dec 03 2007 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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*is tempted to reply that when you can't get crushed because the mobs simply cannot crush you the point is moot, remembers his own nerves and goes away mumbling under his breath*
#14 Dec 03 2007 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
* Wonders to which mobs he is referring, the heroic mobs or all mobs, as I've stated my standard is all mobs. With that as the criteria I can only imagine that he's intentionally trying to obfuscate the conversation in an effort to obscure the irony of trying to describe himself as pedantic only to use the wrong word. *
#15 Dec 03 2007 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
*Thinks that anything twice as big and several times heavier than you can crush you if it falls on you, therefore you can never be uncrushable*
#16 Dec 03 2007 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
Overlord CapJack wrote:
*Thinks that anything twice as big and several times heavier than you can crush you if it falls on you, therefore you can never be uncrushable*

Physics > tank.
#17 Dec 03 2007 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord CapJack wrote:
*Thinks that anything twice as big and several times heavier than you can crush you if it falls on you, therefore you can never be uncrushable*


* Recalls she has a gnome mage who's had ogres fall on her repeatedly and has remained crush-free *

WoW > Physics Smiley: grin
#18 Dec 03 2007 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
Actually, Tank > Physics... Tank can take a hit from a 100-ton Dragon eater, wheras a person using physics rules would get destroyed by such a punch, no matter how shiny his armor was.
#19 Dec 03 2007 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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713 posts

LOL. I ran BM last night with a priest, feral druid, elemental shaman and a rogue, Safe to say we had no problem at all getting to the end. We were so happy we decided to run it again and halfway through our rogue was disconnected. Group didnt miss a beat, and the rogue conveniently came back on when Aeonus (last boss) was at 5% health. He couldnt believe we 4 manned it. Very nice run as I picked up the cloak of the first boss, got my kara key and continuum blade! =)

Is it worth buying the leggings or will my Felsteel leggings do the trick? I dont have the set bonus for the felsteel set. I heard that strength is all that important for pallies, compared to warriors. Plan on getting that nice glyph for my helm from CoT rep too! yay

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Arthorius - Human Paladin - Khaz'garoth

#20 Dec 03 2007 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
[wowitem=29184]Timewarden's Leggings[/wowitem] > [wowitem=23518]Felsteel Leggings[/wowitem]

You can get more stamina, and you get dodge rating which is always nice. The things that you lose like armor and defense rating can be made up somewhere else.

Just put 3 +12 stamina gems on those pants and the NetherCleft Leg armor for +40 more stamina and you got yourself a peice of pants that have 133 stamina on it!

Edited, Dec 3rd 2007 3:02pm by CapJack
#21 Dec 03 2007 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
check out my armory, inforce / gul'dan to see those pants put to good use =p
#22 Dec 03 2007 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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1,441 posts
*refrains from pointing out that if could be bribed to put one level 74 boss into Sunwell Plateau uncrushable there isn't the same as uncrushable anywhere else just to spite everyone*.

Uhm OK. I'll stop now, I promise.
#23 Dec 03 2007 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
Overlord CapJack wrote:
[wowitem=29184]Timewarden's Leggings[/wowitem] > [wowitem=23518]Felsteel Leggings[/wowitem]

You can get more stamina, and you get dodge rating which is always nice. The things that you lose like armor and defense rating can be made up somewhere else.

Just put 3 +12 stamina gems on those pants and the NetherCleft Leg armor for +40 more stamina and you got yourself a peice of pants that have 133 stamina on it!

Edited, Dec 3rd 2007 3:02pm by CapJack


You just like to tell everone you have a veritable pantsful of stamina...


(I agree on the pants though, Thels does too)
#24 Dec 03 2007 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
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29,527 posts
Celcio wrote:
* Recalls she has a gnome mage who's had ogres fall on her repeatedly and has remained crush-free *


*Realizes that this is relevant to his interests.*

Celcio wrote:
God this is turning into a dork slap-fight.


Doesn't everything on the Allakhazam WoW Boards? Smiley: laugh
#25 Dec 03 2007 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Celcio wrote:
* Recalls she has a gnome mage who's had ogres fall on her repeatedly and has remained crush-free *


*Realizes that this is relevant to his interests.*


Oh dear, I've gone and revealed the existence of ladybits.

Quote:
Celcio wrote:
God this is turning into a dork slap-fight.


Doesn't everything on the Allakhazam WoW Boards? Smiley: laugh


Yes Smiley: glare
#26 Dec 04 2007 at 3:16 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Actually, Tank > Physics... Tank can take a hit from a 100-ton Dragon eater, wheras a person using physics rules would get destroyed by such a punch, no matter how shiny his armor was


ok so is it the 100-ton dragon eater the one hitting you or is it the dragon?? cause if it's the dragon i dont see how they really punch, if it's the 100-ton dradon eater, i think the person useing physics would also use reason and hear it comeing and run his **** off to get away. not to mention how fast could a 100-ton dragon eater swing a punch and how hard would it be to dodge it? or have it change direction of it's punch??
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