The Mutilate RogueFollow

I. The Mutilate Rogue
Written by: A Rogue on December 1st, 2007
II.Abstract:
It has been said that Mutilate was supposedly “godly” in player versus player situations. With the release of Arena Season 3 and the (upgrades) of certain rogue talents, the Mutilate build has fallen short on most fellow Rogues’ minds. With the new changes of the talents (including “Fleet Footed” and “Dirty Deeds”), Hemorrhage is once again glorified as the bread and butter build for PvP. The following report is to justify why Mutilate, with all things considered, is still as great or possibly even better, than the presently popular “0/31/30” build.

III.The Facts:
Player versus player, in its history of this game, has always favored the player with (ideally) higher skill, and better equipment. The current PvP system, Arena, is implemented solely for the purposes of stratifying the population into their deserved levels of play. Whether your rating is 2600 or 1500, skill and equipment are vital factors that will determine your ranking within such a system.
Holding these factors in mind gives rise to another key point in PvP: Class Make-up. World of Warcraft offers a wide variety of choices to players in terms of character class, and each class has its sharp and dull ends. For example, the Rogue, being a melee class, simply cannot (rather, should not) excel in ranged and magical based combat. For this very reason, they exist for the purposes of dealing high damage in a very up close and personal manner. That is another fact we all have to agree on; rogues must rely on melee weapons in order to perform.
Further extending the emphasis of class make-up, the Arena system offers us three distinct events to compete within: 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5. The reason for this is simple, yet the consequences are extremely complex. The reason for different arena bracket is due to certain classes that “technically/naturally” excels over another. In the end, every class in this game is absolutely capable of killing every other class. For example, the Paladin has no unfair “advantage” over the Rogue; healing and Plate armor accessible to the Paladin; hence the damage outputs of Paladins are often significantly reduced. This is the nature of class balance. The varieties of styles players wish to engage in during the game are satisfied by the existence of these classes.

IV.The Preface:
If you had the patience to read the above passage, which in itself is almost irrelevant to the central argument, then the follow sections would not be as painstaking to read through. For the Rogue, Mutilate always has been the “boom-crit” and “run-n’-gun” style of play. I personally believe that PvP in itself requires players to put forth their efforts in order to give optimal results. Mutilate builds have long been favored in Arena PvP, but with the release of new rogue talents, many rogues have simply departed from the old world to the new. Why now? Why at all? Let’s take a look at my opposition:

V.The Adrenaline Rush/Preparation Build
Preview:
The Build and Talent Distribution
0/31/30
The Talents Involved (Most commonly seen):
COMBAT TREE
Improved Gouge (3 Points)
Lightning Reflexes (2 Points)
Improved Slice and Dice (3 Points)
Precision (5 Points)
Improved Sprint (2 Points)
Improved Kick (2 Points)
Dual Wield Specialization (5 Points)
Sword/Mace/Fist Specialization (5 Points)
Blade Flurry (1 Point)
Expertise (2 Points)
Adrenaline Rush (1 Point)

Total (31 Points)

SUBTLETY TREE
Master of Deception (5 Points)
Dirty Tricks (2 Points)
Camouflage (5 Points)
Initiative (3 Points)
Elusiveness (2 Points)
Serrated Blades (3 Points)
Heightened Senses (1 Point)
Preparation (1 Point)
Dirty Deeds (2 Points)
Hemorrhage (1 Point)
Deadliness (5 Points)

Total (30 Points)
Level Required (70)
Talents Explained
COMBAT TREE
o Improved Gouge
§ Improved Gouge basically lengthens the duration of your gouge skill. This talent upgrades your gouge duration up to a 5.5 seconds incapacitation effect on your opponent.
o Lightning Reflexes
§ This talent gives the Rogue an increased chance to Dodge incoming attacks.
o Improved Slice and Dice
§ Slice and Dice is a finishing move that speeds up the attack speed of your Rogue by 30% (Rank 2). This talent basically lengthens the duration of SnD by 45%
o Precision
§ The chance of getting “yellow” and “white” hits is increased by 5% with the completion of this talent.
o Improved Sprint
§ Sprinting, by default, is based on your Rogue’s current speed. For this talent, once sprint is activated, the Rogue has a 100% chance of removing movement impairing effects aka “snares” and thus runs free at full tilt.
o Improved Kick
§ Improved Kick upgrades your Kick skill to actually Silence your target by up to 3 seconds.
o Dual Wield Specialization
§ Your offhand weapon’s damage is increased by 50% with this talent.
o Sword/Mace/Fist Specialization
§ For swords:
· An extra swing is granted based on chance with this talent.
§ For maces:
· The Critical chance of your attacks is increased by 5%. Your attacks have a 6% chance to Stun the target for 3 seconds.
o Blade Flurry
§ When activated, your Rogue spins his weapon in a frenzy, redirecting some damage to nearby opponents as well as increasing melee attack speed by 20% at the same time.
o Expertise
§ Weapon expertise is increased by 10.
o Adrenaline Rush
§ This key talent of the build gives the rogue a monstrous energy regeneration rate of 100% for 15 seconds.

SUBTLETY TREE
· Master of Deception
o The Stealth level of your Rogue is increased by 5 levels.
· Dirty Tricks
o Your blind and sapping range is increased by 5 yards; energy cost for these abilities reduced by 50%
· Camouflage
o Your stealth ability now has a 5 second cooldown, as well as a speed increase during stealth.
· Initiative
o A 75% chance to grant an additional combo point when using Ambush, Cheap Shot, and Garrote.
· Elusiveness
o Your vanish and blind abilities is reduced by 1.5 minutes.
· Serrated Blades
o Your attacks ignore 560 armor of your opponent’s armor. Rupture ability also gains a 30% effect bonus.
· Heightened Senses
o Your chance to discover a stealthed unit is increased.
· Preparation
o This talent immediately cools down your Adrenaline Rush, Cold Blood, Vanish, Sprint, Evasion, and Premeditation.
· Dirty Deeds
o This talent reduces the energy cost of your cheap shot and garrote by 20. Also, your special abilities cause 20% more damage to enemies below 35% health.
· Hemorrhage
o An instant strike that deals 125% damage to your target, in addition, physical damage taken by the target is increased by 11. Up to 10 charges, or 15 seconds.
· Deadliness
o Your overall attack power is increased by 10%.
VI.Overview:
At first glance, this build offers both sustained DPS and very preferable means to stunlock your target. In addition, the AR and Preparation keeps your fight under your control. Not to mention Dirty Deeds gives your Rogue a pretty crazy bashing at opponents under 35%, that’s actually pretty awesome. This build appears pretty seamless, to say the least.
But seamless does not accurately describe the potential of this build; I merely justify this by saying: Rogues, in my opinion, are meant to burst in PvP. If you like this sustained DPS and wielding such manly weapons why not roll a warrior or hunter? Hell, warriors and hunters die a lot harder, considering the armor and talents given to them. Plus you can still perform insane DPS with them. Aren’t Rogues designed to be swift masters in the shadows? When arena matches come to mind, most lasts up to 2 or 3 minutes, rarely anything longer than that. The point being, a 0/31/30 rogue may last for seemingly ages, but in arena you are limited to 2 or 3 minutes of star power. The ability of maces to stun is amazing, since during the so-called “high resilience” battles, critical strikes suffer largely. However, the ability to stun is not always the answer to win battles: Why always keep your enemy alive with stuns (hence a stunlocking a target is like keeping a “bomb ticking”) for so long instead of just killing him outright? Rogues, in my opinion, should stick to simplest and fastest method of getting their opponent’s health to zero.
Another point to keep in mind is, while in Arena, you are not “dueling”- that is, the environment is dynamic around you, one second, you may be going at it head to head with the warrior, but then the supposedly “cc’ed” Paladin jumps into the mix; then you’re in some trouble. Without healing to back you up, your Rogue can be killed pretty quick in the Arena considering the amount of armor you have on. (Just a bit above the clothies usually).

[b]VII.The Mutilate/PvP Variation Build[/b]
Preview:
The Build and Talent Distribution
41/0/20 (Most commonly seen) or 41/20/0 variation
The Talents Involved (Most commonly seen)
ASSASSINATION TREE
Improved Eviscerate (3 Points)
Malice (5 Points)
Ruthlessness (3 Points)
Relentless Strikes (1 Point)
Improved Exposed Armor (2 Points)
Lethality (5 Points)
Vile Poisons (4 Points)
Cold Blood (1 Point)
Improved Kidney Shot (3 Points)
Quick Recovery (2 Points)
Seal Fate (5 Points)
Vigor (1 Point)
Find Weakness (5 Points)
Mutilate (1 Point)

Total (41 Points)

SUBTLETY TREE
Master of Deception (5 Points)
Opportunity (5 Points)
Dirty Tricks (2 Points)
Initiative (3 Points)
Elusiveness (2 Points)
Serrated Blades (3 Points)

Total (20 Points)

Level Required (70) Talents Explained
ASSASSINATION TREE
· Improved Eviscerate
o This talent increases your Eviscerate’s damage output.
· Malice
o Overall critical strike chance improved by 5%.
· Ruthlessness
o While using “finishing moves”, you have a 60% chance to gain a combo point back.
· Relentless Strikes
o A finishing move has a 20% chance per combo point to generate 25 energy back to your Rogue.
· Improved Exposed Armor
o Exposed Armor now rips off more armor of opponent; 50% effect bonus.
· Lethality
o Critical strike damage bonus of Shiv, Mutilate, Backstab, Gouge, Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, Hemorrhage increased by 30%.
· Vile Poisons
o Envenom damage increased by 16%, poisons are improved with a 32% less chance of being dispelled.
· Cold Blood
o Increases the next critical strike chance of an “Offensive Ability” by 100%.
· Improved Kidney Shot
o When your target is affected by a Kidney Shot, all damage caused to the target is increased by 9%.
· Quick Recovery
o Your finishing moves cost you 80% less energy when they fail to hit; all healing spells gain a 20% effect bonus on your Rogue.
· Seal Fate
o Critical strikes from abilities that add combo points grants your rogue another combo point.
· Vigor
o Your rogue’s maximum energy is increased by 10.
· Find Weakness
o After a finishing move, all offensive abilities’ damage is increased by 10% for 10 seconds.
· Mutilate
o Attacks from behind with two daggers; damage is increased by 50% against poisoned targets. Each weapon gains additional damage upon using this ability.

SUBTLETY TREE
· Master of Deception
o The Stealth level of your Rogue is increased by 5 levels.
· Opportunity
o Increases damage dealt when using Backstab, Mutilate, Ambush, Garrote by 20%.
· Dirty Tricks
o Your blind and sapping range is increased by 5 yards; energy cost for these abilities reduced by 50%
· Initiative
o A 75% chance to grant an additional combo point when using Ambush, Cheap Shot, and Garrote.
· Elusiveness
o Your vanish and blind abilities is reduced by 1.5 minutes.
· Serrated Blades
o Your attacks ignore 560 armor of your opponent’s armor. Rupture ability also gains a 30% effect bonus.

[b]VIII.Overview:[/b]
When the word assassination comes to mind, I think of things such as sudden and fast. I believe that is exactly the point of Rogue PvP: Never let a chance for your opponent to react. The idea behind this build is that you must have the adequate skill for control. I think this build epitomizes the meaning of clean fights without waste; your opponents can be dead within 20 seconds with the proper equipment. The potential from a Cold Blood Eviscerate followed by a Mutilate is comparable to burst damage from mages. I believe that speed and control are key points to this build.
Okay, so I do realize the drawback of relying more on crits than long stuns. In high rated arena matches, you can conclude that most opponents will have similar equipment. Commonly seen are rogues with double maces or swords showing off that 0/31/30 build. Here’s the deal, remember when in PvP, both sides have similar equipment, what else matters? Skill! (Luck too, okay) However, I would rather gamble on skills rather than lucky stuns alone during a fight, if anything, high rated battles should be a matter of player skills. Also, even if there was say, a warrior with resilience at the high 400’s, would it be logical that I want to keep him alive for so long? No! I would rather get rid of him quickly. Even though high resilience may punish the critical strike effects of your Rogue, there is no easy way to win the fight; exceptional amounts of skill are required in the player’s ability to CC, dish out vital stuns, and give burst damage from the start.The bright side of this build using daggers is that; you naturally feel faster, it’s a mental thing. Wielding double arena maces or swords immediately give away what you’ve got under your sleeves: Your opponents, more or less, has seen other Rogues like you. There is almost no surprise in getting stunned by mace rogues. Your opponents learn how to counter your moves. The art of war has taught me many things about how to fight: All warfare is based upon deception (rough quote from Sun Tzu), deception is the best weapon a Rogue has in winning battles. There is no deadlier deception than having a rogue suddenly CS you and getting off a split-second CB mutilate on you. This is the element of surprise. Surprise produces consternation. Consternation means disorganization. Disorganization generates flaws. Flaws come from fear. Fear is useful. No matter how highly organized you think your team might be, even a small deviation from your preplanned damage-control plans will get your mind to react in an urgent rush of anxiety. All it takes is a split-second opener. From a Rogue, how wonderful.That is not all about the advantages of playing this build; you also have a talent called Quick Recovery. All healing effects on you are increased by 20%. Hello? Arena PvP, no healers pretty much means no game. Unless you are absolutely ridiculously amazing in CC and targeting, arena teams without healers will not advance very far up in the PvP food chain. By using this talent, you give your healers an easier time. Most healers nowadays give crazy +healing effects on their spells, with this talent, the Rogue becomes the deadly killing machine.
Okay, so even if I did get Mortal Struck by this fearsome warrior, how did it happen in the first place? Well one of a few things could have happened; somebody or you might have forgotten to CC that warrior, the stuns might have been resisted by the warrior, your team may simply be dead because of the long fight, you simply don’t have the control to get behind that big son of a beep, or you forgot how to use your stuns.
PvP is about reaction. Learning how to reaction is the basis for all victory. Do you use evasion or cloak of shadows to counter a pyroblast, if either? Or do you use the fairly cool 10 second cooldown called Kick to deal with it? All of this is from experience…Especially if you chose to pop evasion on that pyro flying straight at your face.IX.Conclusion
I mean absolutely no offense to all the rogues out there who insists on using 0/31/30, but I am just saying, old school builds are always worth considering. Also, my respects go to the elite rogue community (who very well may be reading this and saying “wtf is this guy? Just another troll, REPORTED!!”) sorry for jumping out of my shell, but it’s just something I have to say, in defense of the traditional mutilate build.
With that said, I believe I have said enough, but ultimately, it’s just a game, let’s have fun!
-Just another Rogue

Yea, cause doesn't Resiliance ***** over any burst damage builds?

the point that people know what to expect from you and how to counter if they see maces in your hands isnt totally convincing.

cause if they see daggers they still know what to expect.

Hell they might not give a **** and just be running around pounding people with whatever power hotkeys their fingers can hit [or maybe its hit people with whatever power hotkeys their fingers can pound].

A mace rogue popping out of nowhere, giving you a garrote and stunning you infrequently through its entire cycle. Its not really deception. Its more like bondage. In bondage the mistress at hand will show you all she's got for you. But [ahem*] your not in a position to effectively argue or stop her.

how bout i equate it in the first post SO long with bullet points and **** that i just, wont, i WONT read it lol

Shao, that's not true at all.

Rock/paper/scissors applies only to class balance. After that, there's nothing that says a rogue can't beat a warrior, and i frequently do beat warriors. AR/prep excels at that.

@OP. I take it from your format and language that you are either a scientist, or a scientist in training. As such, you missed the most important step in the *two step process" that is science. (#1) make a hypothesis, and (#2) try to prove yourself wrong (the opposite of mathematics where you try to prove yourself right).
So if you state that (#1) Mut. is viable, then when you (#2) try to prove to yourself that mut. is NOT viable, I bet you wont have to try too hard.

Gather observations? Just check the arena team standings, and look at the builds of all the rogues in the 2s, 3s, and 5s. At such a high level of competition, I am wiling to bet that a rogues spec is based on success... not so much on preference.

actually, edit: Based on your lack of observations, numbers, or any other use of hard facts i would guess you are a soft scientist, geography or psychology come to mind.....
Put hard observations out there, like Nooblestick does, then we'll believe you.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2007 9:59pm by DrMayhem

Edited, Dec 2nd 2007 9:59pm by DrMayhem

Maybe if you droped the 2 points in Remorseless attacks, put thoes into Improved poisons.
Drop Improved backstab, pickup fleet footed/Quick recovery.
Drop Sinister Strike.
Finish Dual wield.
Drop Opportunity.

you might have better sucess when you spec the right way!
Link
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3053201050521025010513023050020050000000000000000000000000000000000

Or just spec maces and be fine...

And I take full time classes and got enough honor for my S1 mace in three days. They're only 18k, that's an absolute JOKE.

Yea I'm speced incorrectly and still geared pretty poorly. For spending as much time as I do in this game it doesn't really show.... But thanks for the advice, I'm going to spend a lot of time reading the stickies on combat maces to make sure I get it right the first time.

Because you suck so badly everyone else is afk bots?

You're a paragon of intelligence aren't you?

Edited, Dec 12th 2007 1:08am by Theophany

I am half tempted to get the s2 MH dagger to go along with my s2 OH and make a return to mutilate once hemo gets nerfed.

That or full combat maces I guess >.<

this should do the talking for my original post

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/stream.php?id=54418&stream=Filefront

enjoy!

lol arena isn't all about damage you know right?

WOW GUYS TWO OF THE BEST ROGUES IN THE WORLD WHO HAVE PLAYED TOGETHER FOR MONTHS ON END CAN CAP OUT AT 2200 IN S2, ITS AMAZING

rofl.