Hi folks.
I am hoping some of the Advanced math class here could do a little analysis on this weapon.
Is the Vengeful Gladiator's Waraxe better than say the Sonic Spear, both with Savagery or +35 Agility?
This only costs 1000 Arena points so that in itself makes it very attractive.
Thanks for the help in advance.
Edited, Nov 30th 2007 1:59pm by dbernor
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Vengeful Gladiator's WaraxeFollow
well lets see
VGW Sonic
Stam 62 30
ap 92 97 (counting ap from agi)
+hit 15 24
+crit 2.08% .77% (from agi)
amor pierce 98 0
For the above i just converted the agi into it's respective crit and ap values
So looks to me like VGW doesn't lose very much in any catagory but owns the Sonic in
stam, crit and armor piercing
I would say VGW is a much better choice, in addition to the fact that "if" you ever have to melee
you might actually hit the mob fairly hard.
Greengimp
VGW Sonic
Stam 62 30
ap 92 97 (counting ap from agi)
+hit 15 24
+crit 2.08% .77% (from agi)
amor pierce 98 0
For the above i just converted the agi into it's respective crit and ap values
So looks to me like VGW doesn't lose very much in any catagory but owns the Sonic in
stam, crit and armor piercing
I would say VGW is a much better choice, in addition to the fact that "if" you ever have to melee
you might actually hit the mob fairly hard.
Greengimp
Scholar
48 posts
Holy shnikes... I had not even looked at the new axe.
Rate ups to all for showing me the sexiness.
Edited, Nov 30th 2007 5:47pm by GreyhairTheHunter
Rate ups to all for showing me the sexiness.
Edited, Nov 30th 2007 5:47pm by GreyhairTheHunter
It is better than legacy.
I'm not sure if everyone here knows about Cheeky's awesome hunter gear spreadsheet? It gives VGW as a 9dps upgrade over Hellforged Halberd, so a bit more than that for Sonic Spear. Definitely worth investing the time for, just 4 weeks at even 1500 rating will get you one.
In case you were wondering, the spreadsheet can be found here. It's a lot of fun to pore over and see what upgrades to aim for and in which order.
In case you were wondering, the spreadsheet can be found here. It's a lot of fun to pore over and see what upgrades to aim for and in which order.
9 posts
Very nice Axe but i think i'll be sticking with the Sonic Spear as there's no agi on it (surv hunter). Why oh why didn't blizz think of the survival hunters when making this? I mean the crits nice and all but i'd rather get my crit from the agi thanks blizz =(
Scholar
48 posts
Dumb question.
Wowwiki says it is sold by the arena vendor in Blade's Edge. I have always looked at Arena gear at Area 52. Do the vendors sell different things?
Wowwiki says it is sold by the arena vendor in Blade's Edge. I have always looked at Arena gear at Area 52. Do the vendors sell different things?
It's available in Netherstorm... I saw it there.
Yeah, I'm also bummed about no agi, but what are you going to do? =/ That's the sole reason I don't get one, because it's a ****-ton sexier than my gay disco axe. Ah, well.
I'll be getting the legs and chest shortly, but the rest will have to wait.
Yeah, I'm also bummed about no agi, but what are you going to do? =/ That's the sole reason I don't get one, because it's a ****-ton sexier than my gay disco axe. Ah, well.
I'll be getting the legs and chest shortly, but the rest will have to wait.
I'm a complete noob at Arenas... Everyone says that it's easy to get 1000 arena points. But what exactly does that translate to? How many arenas would I have to do, and how many would I have to win?
ProjectMidnight wrote:
I'm a complete noob at Arenas... Everyone says that it's easy to get 1000 arena points. But what exactly does that translate to? How many arenas would I have to do, and how many would I have to win?
Just 10 games per week total for 4 weeks at below 1500 rating, no matter even if you lose all of them. Which is unlikely since winning at that stage is really easy even in pve gear.
I also would suggest doing 5v5 if you can. It gives most points.
Edited, Dec 1st 2007 12:40am by Elustriel
ProjectMidnight wrote:
I'm a complete noob at Arenas... Everyone says that it's easy to get 1000 arena points. But what exactly does that translate to? How many arenas would I have to do, and how many would I have to win?
You garner points based on your ranking for the week. Even when we first started and drove our ratings down below 1200, we were getting 200 points per week.
All you have to do to get arena points is participate in (I believe) a third of your team's matches, and your team needs a minimum of 10 matches per week. That's it. Get points, wait, by gear.
Of course, you can and should do more than 10 a week if you're any good at all and winning at least half of the time. But 10 a week is all that's needed.
Also, 2x2 garners less points for equal rating than 3x3... which garners less points for equal rating than 5x5. Just FYI. (And good luck getting 5 guys together at once on a regular basis)
40 posts
Ieatrocks wrote:
It is better than legacy.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that...
You and me might have had the same thought when we saw this thread: "Wow, if the waraxe is better than SS, how does it compare to weapons that are farther along in progression?" That's when I decided to find out exactly how good the "ignores 98 armor" effect is... After all, 98 looks like a nice, big, crunchy number, right?
Anyways, I ended up here on Ala forums:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=2;mid=11746556482987693;num=69;page=1
The thread is old so the math might be off already, but I honestly can't access other WoW sites from work... so this'll have to do. Anyways, with this formula:
Against mobs of lvl60 and up, the Damage Reduction in % is:
100 * Armor / (Armor + (Moblvl * 467.5) - 22170)
...this ability ignores roughly 0.92% of the opponent's mitigation, or provides roughly 12.88 AP-- except it could be potentially worse than that depending on where the effect is applied to the target (before or after mitigation talents?), and it does not scale like AP does.
Legacy/waraxe
AP 120/92(or 104.98 if we treat the ignores armor effect as AP)
Crit 1%/2.09%
Stam 46/62
Agi 40/0
Hit 0/15
Mp5 8/0
It's pretty close. But then, that does not factor in the higher end talents on the MM and SURV trees, since the "ignore 98 armor" effect does not scale with the AP and crit bonuses from Master Marks, Survival Instincts, and Lightning reflexes the way the extra Agi/AP on Legacy does, though it should scale with the speed in BM.
I would probally say that for PvE, the axe is slightly better for BM, *about even for MM, and MUCH worse for Surv, and leave it at that. There's more math to be done here tho...
For PvP, the axe is CLEARLY better for BM and MM... But a Surv hunter is likely going to want to roll with Legacy anyways. Surv STILL loses out on a ton of HP and res to get their agility, but it's not *as bad as it looks* since you pick up a little more dodge and armor (the "wrong" outlast stats, I know, but you take what you can get).
Again, I've made a LOT of assumptions here (does the game treat lvl70 characters and mobs as the same? Is the ignore armor effect applied before or after mitigation talents are applied? Do mobs even mitigation talents? Is this formula even current?), and my math could be off as well. If anyone has anything better, I would LOVE to see it.
Edited, Dec 1st 2007 7:40am by scrubmonkey
Edited, Dec 1st 2007 7:56am by scrubmonkey
scrubmonkey wrote:
Ieatrocks wrote:
It is better than legacy.
For PvP, the axe is CLEARLY better for BM and MM... But a Surv hunter is likely going to want to roll with Legacy anyways. Surv STILL loses out on a ton of HP and res to get their agility, but it's not *as bad as it looks* since you pick up a little more dodge and armor (the "wrong" outlast stats, I know, but you take what you can get).
Edited, Dec 1st 2007 7:56am by scrubmonkey
sorry I am only partially quoting you, but the rest of the post is just above.
I am just viewing this axe from a survival point of view. I agree with others
that it's annoying to find so little gear that seems to be intended for SV
hunters...
However... Unless you are really agility starved I dont think this axe is bad
at all for SV, _ESPECIALLY_ for PvP. The reason SV hunters want heaps of agi
is to boost Expose Weakness, and the difference between Legacy and VGW
would make out to be in the ballpark of 40*1.15*0.25 = 11.5 AP.
Expose Weakness is IMHO not something to throw everything else out the window to
get in a PvP setting, especially in the Arena, where the number of people
benefitting from this debuff is very limited.
EW shines at it very finest in 25-man raids with as many meleers as possible.
The crit rating on the VGW gives you a whole % more crit than the agi on Legacy.
If your EW debuff isn't mainained 100% of the time, crit rating is not a bad way
to improve this. Losing 11.5AP on the debuff is better than losing uptime.
And of course you will also make nice hurt when you have to Raptor strike once in a while.
I'd say one should view it while considering the rest of ones gear.
Edited, Dec 1st 2007 9:48pm by Kefas
This axe has definately made Arena More attracting....
When i'm getting back to WoW (2-3 weeks or so, because then my new pc will be finished) my hunter is going MM and going to PvP... a lot =P
S1 gear and S3 Axe here I come!
When i'm getting back to WoW (2-3 weeks or so, because then my new pc will be finished) my hunter is going MM and going to PvP... a lot =P
S1 gear and S3 Axe here I come!
40 posts
Kefas wrote:
scrubmonkey wrote:
[quote=Ieatrocks]It is better than legacy.
I'd say one should view it while considering the rest of ones gear.
Edited, Dec 1st 2007 9:48pm by Kefas
...and you can and should apply the same logic to MM and BM builds, I see what you are saying. That was part of the reasons that my conclusions were so ambiguous... but still, I think you just made the point that I was reaching toward but not quite grasping myself. ;)
Speaking of the rest of one's gear, does it amuse the heck out of anyone else that full vengeful can almost match T4 in pve stats... with the "incedental bonus" of doubling your survivability?!? That's pretty insane, but I decided that I don't care, and the general mumbling on this that I see on the O boards is kinda silly to me. The S4 stuff can look like Hyjal gear for all I care, because by then we will either be leveling toward 80, or be on pre-orders... All the stuff that Bliz is doing to let the casuals and latecomers jump progression is all fine, since the content is about to become irrelavent anyway...
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 1:41am by scrubmonkey
Scrubmonkey I disagree on your assessment that the axe and legacy are *really close* Axe has over double the crit of Legacy, that fact alone makes it not close, only 14 less AP according to your calculations +15hit(this is nice because it allows me to have options for gear ups) -8mp5(irrelevent in my case, since I dont run oom even on long bosses, consumables are your friend). Also according to Cheeky's spreadsheet, the Axe nets me 14dps up from Legacy, that's a hefty upgrade for one piece.
I saw a t6 Hunter with Halberd of Desolation today and since I have informant mod, I could directly compare, and it was rather underwhelming small up. That's how good this axe is, besides it actually looks good.
I saw a t6 Hunter with Halberd of Desolation today and since I have informant mod, I could directly compare, and it was rather underwhelming small up. That's how good this axe is, besides it actually looks good.
Cheeky's spreadsheet doesn't take into account mp/5 automatically, you have to manually multiply the hunter dps figure it gives with the time taken to go out of mana as a rudimentary estimate. In any scenarios where you are pressed for mana, Legacy is certainly close to this weapon, and probably better if you're already hitcapped. If you have Sonic Spear, Hellforged Halberd/Blackened Spear or Legacy, but haven't yet got Demon Stalker helm or better, a better use of your Arena points would be Vengeful Gladiator's Chain Helm, which is only slightly worse than Gronnstalker's Helm.
(If you have an epic helm that doesn't have a meta gem socket, chances are Beast Lord was better than it for dps. Just FYI.)
(If you have an epic helm that doesn't have a meta gem socket, chances are Beast Lord was better than it for dps. Just FYI.)
Helm doesn't apply to me, since I have Engineering helm and t4 in bank, and I get a whopping 1dps gain over my Eng goggles vs 14 with axe. Not too mention helm costing more.
The breastplate on the other hand is really nice, and is what I plan to get next.
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 12:03pm by Elustriel
The breastplate on the other hand is really nice, and is what I plan to get next.
Edited, Dec 6th 2007 12:03pm by Elustriel
:( Do you hate mp/5 or something? lol, I feel the same way sometimes, but after spending all that effort crafting Ebon Netherscale, I'm damn well gonna get some mileage out of it.
shenlongxz wrote:
:( Do you hate mp/5 or something? lol, I feel the same way sometimes, but after spending all that effort crafting Ebon Netherscale, I'm damn well gonna get some mileage out of it.
It's not that I hate mp5, more like I don't really need an excess of it, it might be different if I was a mana guzzling SUV that is MM.
This axe sucks if you are SV
Darigraz wrote:
This axe sucks if you are SV
care to back this statement up?
and preferrably with something else than mindless
"it has no agility" chanting, or if you do have to go
down that road, please do tell me why it is so
immensely terrible, or in your own words "it sucks".
You pretty much answered your own question.
IT HAS NO AGILITY.
I'll just stick to my Dual Netherbane setup for survival.
And if you are pvp'ing as deep survival you are already wrong, unless you cound lolBG's as pvp.
Any decent arena hunter is going to be 0/43/18 or some variant there of.
Edited, Dec 7th 2007 2:38am by Boganart
IT HAS NO AGILITY.
I'll just stick to my Dual Netherbane setup for survival.
And if you are pvp'ing as deep survival you are already wrong, unless you cound lolBG's as pvp.
Any decent arena hunter is going to be 0/43/18 or some variant there of.
Edited, Dec 7th 2007 2:38am by Boganart
again... think through why exactly agility is a favored stat, and
prove to me with numbers that the axe _sucks_.
prove to me with numbers that the axe _sucks_.
Well from what i understand about the SV tree, there is a talent which uses 25% of your AGI to expose a weakness on the target for all party members, NOW if there AGI is low, its a crap talent to have, so hense why the Veng Axe is a "under par" weapon for a SV hunter.
Now its not bad by all means but maybe there are some weapons out there more "suited" to a SV Hunter.
Now its not bad by all means but maybe there are some weapons out there more "suited" to a SV Hunter.
Even for survival you're trading off ~12AP on your EW, and the MP/5 for More uptime for EW, more stam, hit rating, and armor pen. To be honest, I would be surprised if the increase to your personal DPS didn't outweigh the increase in raid dps from EW at the Kara level. Add in BoK and you're still not even reaching 13AP from EW, with Lightening Reflexes, from Legacy.
It is an interesting question, but will take somebody better at math and theorycrafting than myself to answer it. I suspect when you start reaching 25 mans your raid will benefit more from Legacy, while in Kara and ZA the waraxe wins out even taking EW into account.
It is an interesting question, but will take somebody better at math and theorycrafting than myself to answer it. I suspect when you start reaching 25 mans your raid will benefit more from Legacy, while in Kara and ZA the waraxe wins out even taking EW into account.
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