ok, so i know i've posted many a post about ret and giving suggestions. as i (slowly) near 70 i have a ret question myself. this is aimed at tommyguns mostly, but advice from any other 70 retadins is welcome.
first off, i'v read the FAQ several times since i've been reading the forums. what i've noticed (today since i was thinking about it) is that while theres end game stats for tanking and healing, all it says for ret is that i'm looking for warrior stas.
so my question is, what should i be trying to reach (as far as AP/Crit, etc) prior to doing kara to be competitive in dps. i know tommyguns has done kara, and i believe i've read others saying they've done kara as ret. any productive help would be appreciated.
in advance thankyou all for the advice.
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I'd be interested in this as well. I have a general idea I think of what would be good, but not a very definite one. And I always forget how much hit rating is before your attacks are non-missable.
So, I defer to you ret paladins out there for the answer, as I am at a loss. I'd like to get some good guidelines into the FAQ.
So, I defer to you ret paladins out there for the answer, as I am at a loss. I'd like to get some good guidelines into the FAQ.
u see the minimums posted for tanks and healers cuz that really is the minimum gearing, or there is no point in going. ret and many other dps wont have any hard baseline because of the variety of play and the make up of the dps group. that said, if you are going for the dmg meter trophy here's a nice foundation:
unbuffed
8500hp
4500mp
1100 AP
25% crit
60-100 +hit(depending on talents and mobs)
+spell dmg - take is as it comes(prob around 125)
wea spd of 3.6+
armor - couple mail or leather isnt a bad thing
as opposed to soloing, +stam will be 3rd priority(str/ap, agi/crit). stay behind the mobs for max hitting. stay below the tank on threat for max living. also play to benefit the group(ie a pally should be healing during Maiden, with BoSac on another healadin). not a bad idea to keep more specific sets of gear for certain encounters(like +spell for aoe).
unbuffed
8500hp
4500mp
1100 AP
25% crit
60-100 +hit(depending on talents and mobs)
+spell dmg - take is as it comes(prob around 125)
wea spd of 3.6+
armor - couple mail or leather isnt a bad thing
as opposed to soloing, +stam will be 3rd priority(str/ap, agi/crit). stay behind the mobs for max hitting. stay below the tank on threat for max living. also play to benefit the group(ie a pally should be healing during Maiden, with BoSac on another healadin). not a bad idea to keep more specific sets of gear for certain encounters(like +spell for aoe).
tommyguns wrote:
u see the minimums posted for tanks and healers cuz that really is the minimum gearing, or there is no point in going. ret and many other dps wont have any hard baseline because of the variety of play and the make up of the dps group. that said, if you are going for the dmg meter trophy here's a nice foundation:
unbuffed
8500hp
4500mp
1100 AP
25% crit
60-100 +hit(depending on talents and mobs)
+spell dmg - take is as it comes(prob around 125)
wea spd of 3.6+
armor - couple mail or leather isnt a bad thing
as opposed to soloing, +stam will be 3rd priority(str/ap, agi/crit). stay behind the mobs for max hitting. stay below the tank on threat for max living. also play to benefit the group(ie a pally should be healing during Maiden, with BoSac on another healadin). not a bad idea to keep more specific sets of gear for certain encounters(like +spell for aoe).
unbuffed
8500hp
4500mp
1100 AP
25% crit
60-100 +hit(depending on talents and mobs)
+spell dmg - take is as it comes(prob around 125)
wea spd of 3.6+
armor - couple mail or leather isnt a bad thing
as opposed to soloing, +stam will be 3rd priority(str/ap, agi/crit). stay behind the mobs for max hitting. stay below the tank on threat for max living. also play to benefit the group(ie a pally should be healing during Maiden, with BoSac on another healadin). not a bad idea to keep more specific sets of gear for certain encounters(like +spell for aoe).
ty very much tomyguns. one question though... 1100AP? i have more than that already at 65. is that a typo, or am I just that far ahead of my level?
when you start to balance out your gear, you will see different stats adjust. for instance you will be using some +hit gems/enchants rather than AP/str. 1100 is bare min to be at all competent.
tommyguns wrote:
when you start to balance out your gear, you will see different stats adjust. for instance you will be using some +hit gems/enchants rather than AP/str. 1100 is bare min to be at all competent.
ok, ty. yeah, +hit is a little weak right now. would some expertise or whatever it is be beneficial too?
tommyguns wrote:
60-100 +hit(depending on talents and mobs)
just to clarify, what is the max %+hit that is beneficial? i searched the forums and tried finding it in the FAQ and i know its there, but i couldn't find it :(
You need 9% to avoid missing raid bosses, 8% +hit to avoid missing bosses and 5% on regular mobs. I think the magic number comes out to be a hit rating of 95
It's not that hard to acheive if you get precision (3% +hit) in the prot tree...kinda sucks that it forces you to waste 5 points on the teir 1 talents but it's a must have, imo
Oh and I would shoot for 1300-1500 attack power 1100 is kinda low
Ret pallies can't really afford to have the bare minimum of anytyhing. You're going to have to be very well geared and always bring your "a game" to get any kind of respect
edit = corrected miss rate
Edited, Dec 4th 2007 12:23pm by chood
It's not that hard to acheive if you get precision (3% +hit) in the prot tree...kinda sucks that it forces you to waste 5 points on the teir 1 talents but it's a must have, imo
Oh and I would shoot for 1300-1500 attack power 1100 is kinda low
Ret pallies can't really afford to have the bare minimum of anytyhing. You're going to have to be very well geared and always bring your "a game" to get any kind of respect
edit = corrected miss rate
Edited, Dec 4th 2007 12:23pm by chood
chood wrote:
You need 8% +hit to avoid missing bosses and 5% on regular mobs. I think the magic number comes out to be a hit rating of 95
It's not that hard to acheive if you get precision (3% +hit) in the prot tree...kinda sucks that it forces you to waste 5 points on the teir 1 talents but it's a must have, imo
Oh and I would shoot for 1300-1500 attack power 1100 is kinda low
Ret pallies can't really afford to have the bare minimum of anytyhing. You're going to have to be very well geared and always bring your "a game" to get any kind of respect
Edited, Nov 30th 2007 12:59pm by chood
It's not that hard to acheive if you get precision (3% +hit) in the prot tree...kinda sucks that it forces you to waste 5 points on the teir 1 talents but it's a must have, imo
Oh and I would shoot for 1300-1500 attack power 1100 is kinda low
Ret pallies can't really afford to have the bare minimum of anytyhing. You're going to have to be very well geared and always bring your "a game" to get any kind of respect
Edited, Nov 30th 2007 12:59pm by chood
thankyou too, chood. appreciate the info about +hit. also, i tend to try to stay on top, so i'll try to get the higher AP...
so now to figure out what gear i'll need when i hit 70... thats the fun part, haha.
so, i was healing on muralimohan in heroic SP yesterday, and we had a ret pally for dps. i didn't think to check his gear/spec before we started (i rarely check anyone) but as we went along it became apparent we didn't have enough dps for the bare minimums i have in healing and the tank had in avoidance. his avoidance was at 95% and you can look me up to see that i could do it only with a good group. actually the rogue was the only one doing good dps. rogue was at 35%, prot pally 25%, and the lock and the ret were right together aroud 20%.
we cleared to the first boss but couldn't touch his health (partly cause they weren't killing totems quick enough). don't know much about locks so i can't help him. but the answers i got here helped me give the ret some good advice. so again, ty to everyone. rets ap was 1088 and crit was 15%. i thought that odd since my ret has over 1100 AP and about 26% crit. and she's only 66.
also about the hit rating, i have the specc'd 3% and a couple % more from hit rating. what was thinking was that my pally is draenei and has that aura to boost the parties hit my 1%. that does affect me too, right? if thats the case i really just need 1% more for regular mobs and 4% for bosses. so i think i might have more than i need for now. at least till i start heroics/raids.
we cleared to the first boss but couldn't touch his health (partly cause they weren't killing totems quick enough). don't know much about locks so i can't help him. but the answers i got here helped me give the ret some good advice. so again, ty to everyone. rets ap was 1088 and crit was 15%. i thought that odd since my ret has over 1100 AP and about 26% crit. and she's only 66.
also about the hit rating, i have the specc'd 3% and a couple % more from hit rating. what was thinking was that my pally is draenei and has that aura to boost the parties hit my 1%. that does affect me too, right? if thats the case i really just need 1% more for regular mobs and 4% for bosses. so i think i might have more than i need for now. at least till i start heroics/raids.
toolofjesus wrote:
we cleared to the first boss but couldn't touch his health (partly cause they weren't killing totems quick enough). don't know much about locks so i can't help him. but the answers i got here helped me give the ret some good advice. so again, ty to everyone. rets ap was 1088 and crit was 15%. i thought that odd since my ret has over 1100 AP and about 26% crit. and she's only 66.
Spread the word brother…one question though, was he receptive to your advise?
toolofjesus wrote:
also about the hit rating, i have the specc'd 3% and a couple % more from hit rating. what was thinking was that my pally is draenei and has that aura to boost the parties hit my 1%. that does affect me too, right?
Yes it does.
toolofjesus wrote:
if thats the case i really just need 1% more for regular mobs and 4% for bosses. so i think i might have more than i need for now. at least till i start heroics/raids.
Correct. If you count the +hit you have currently you’re at 6.21%. Also you may want to try and score the Glyph of Ferocity for the +hit when you hit 70
Here's what i read on WoWWiki:
Hit refers to physical damage that occurs as a result of an attack made with melee or ranged weapons. The chance to hit increases by 1% per 15.8 hit rating points at level 70 and 10 hit rating points at level 60. The base chance to miss with maximum weapon skill against an opponent of equal level is 5% for two handed and 24% for dual wield.
Calculating Miss Rate for Physical Damage Attacks
Hit rating decreases chance to miss rather than increases chance to hit. Chance to miss in PvE is determined solely by the difference in the defending mob's Defense Skill and the player's Weapon Skill. Further, the effect is not linear. So, there are actually two different formulas that might apply, depending upon whether the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10 or not. Here are the two formulas:
If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is less than or equal to 10 then the formula for calculating your base miss rate against that mob is:
5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%
dual-wielding: 24% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%
If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10, then the formula for calculating your base miss rate against that mob is:
7% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%
dual-wielding: 26% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%
Applying these formulas gives the following base miss rate for a Level 70 character with a 350 Weapon Skill:
* v. Level 70 mob: 5.0% / dual-wield: 24%
* v. Level 71 mob: 5.5% / dual-wield: 24.5%
* v. Level 72 mob: 6.0% / dual-wield: 25%
* v. Level 73 mob: 9.0% / dual-wield: 28%
Thus if you are a Level 70 character with a Weapon Skill of 350, you need a Hit Rating of 142 (9.00%) to never miss a shot against a Level 73 boss (or skull mob).
What this means is that there is a big +hit benefit to keeping your Weapon Skill within 10 levels of the mobs you are trying to fight. For example, by improving your Weapon Skill from 340 to 345, you effectively reduce your chance to miss against Level 71 mobs by 3%! However, after getting to 345, increasing your Weapon Skill the next 5 levels, to 350, only reduces your chance to miss by an additional.5% (or 3.5% in total). Also, note that there is a huge jump in miss rate reduction by going from 344 to 345 Weapon Skill. This is the point where you switch from one formula to the other, and so this particular single point of Weapon Skill is worth a dramatic +1.4% hit against a Level 71 mob.
Pre 2.3, racial bonuses provided +Weapon Skill, and thus turned out to be pretty valuable for improving your +hit capability. For Humans, Dwarves, Orcs and Trolls their racial bonuses increased their Weapon Skill at Level 70 from 350 to 355. With a 355 Weapon Skill, your base miss rate against a Level 73 mob (or skull boss) was only 6% instead of 9%.
...So i guess it is 9% base miss...i always thought it was 5% for a mob your level and then 1% for each level higher than you.
Edited, Dec 3rd 2007 11:48am by chood
Hit refers to physical damage that occurs as a result of an attack made with melee or ranged weapons. The chance to hit increases by 1% per 15.8 hit rating points at level 70 and 10 hit rating points at level 60. The base chance to miss with maximum weapon skill against an opponent of equal level is 5% for two handed and 24% for dual wield.
Calculating Miss Rate for Physical Damage Attacks
Hit rating decreases chance to miss rather than increases chance to hit. Chance to miss in PvE is determined solely by the difference in the defending mob's Defense Skill and the player's Weapon Skill. Further, the effect is not linear. So, there are actually two different formulas that might apply, depending upon whether the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10 or not. Here are the two formulas:
If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is less than or equal to 10 then the formula for calculating your base miss rate against that mob is:
5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%
dual-wielding: 24% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%
If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10, then the formula for calculating your base miss rate against that mob is:
7% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%
dual-wielding: 26% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%
Applying these formulas gives the following base miss rate for a Level 70 character with a 350 Weapon Skill:
* v. Level 70 mob: 5.0% / dual-wield: 24%
* v. Level 71 mob: 5.5% / dual-wield: 24.5%
* v. Level 72 mob: 6.0% / dual-wield: 25%
* v. Level 73 mob: 9.0% / dual-wield: 28%
Thus if you are a Level 70 character with a Weapon Skill of 350, you need a Hit Rating of 142 (9.00%) to never miss a shot against a Level 73 boss (or skull mob).
What this means is that there is a big +hit benefit to keeping your Weapon Skill within 10 levels of the mobs you are trying to fight. For example, by improving your Weapon Skill from 340 to 345, you effectively reduce your chance to miss against Level 71 mobs by 3%! However, after getting to 345, increasing your Weapon Skill the next 5 levels, to 350, only reduces your chance to miss by an additional.5% (or 3.5% in total). Also, note that there is a huge jump in miss rate reduction by going from 344 to 345 Weapon Skill. This is the point where you switch from one formula to the other, and so this particular single point of Weapon Skill is worth a dramatic +1.4% hit against a Level 71 mob.
Pre 2.3, racial bonuses provided +Weapon Skill, and thus turned out to be pretty valuable for improving your +hit capability. For Humans, Dwarves, Orcs and Trolls their racial bonuses increased their Weapon Skill at Level 70 from 350 to 355. With a 355 Weapon Skill, your base miss rate against a Level 73 mob (or skull boss) was only 6% instead of 9%.
...So i guess it is 9% base miss...i always thought it was 5% for a mob your level and then 1% for each level higher than you.
Edited, Dec 3rd 2007 11:48am by chood
first of all, thanyou for the info on +hit chood. basically from precision and being draenei i need 4% more from hit rating. and i'll have to add that glyph to my wish list.
and about that ret pally, yes he was receptive. we agree'd i'd help him later to gear up better. gotta finalize my 70 wishlist so i know what to reccomend for him too. he's a friend of he lock that was in the group who is in my guild. the lock came from a guild that broke up and joined ours and everyone i've seen from that guild has had a great attitude about accepting help. their attitude is good cause several of them needed help. most of them are doing great now so i have high hopes for the ret pally friend. just wish know more about other classes. i can do nothing to help that lock. :(
and about that ret pally, yes he was receptive. we agree'd i'd help him later to gear up better. gotta finalize my 70 wishlist so i know what to reccomend for him too. he's a friend of he lock that was in the group who is in my guild. the lock came from a guild that broke up and joined ours and everyone i've seen from that guild has had a great attitude about accepting help. their attitude is good cause several of them needed help. most of them are doing great now so i have high hopes for the ret pally friend. just wish know more about other classes. i can do nothing to help that lock. :(
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