Hey there guys,
recently when i was playing, it came to my mind, that mages need IMO some new spell... a real annoying spell. I have no idea what it should do or whatever else, but I think in pvp all classes have something to keep mages and ofc also others busy while they can give the situation a thought and heal up, or do whatever else they could do to win the fight.
When I'm playing, I'm always f'ing busy with strafing left and right and running normal, still hitting the right buttons from the changing positions of my fingers on the keyboard. Hitting ppl with coc who are right behind me is definately not a thing that should be considered "a basic mage skil". I have a huge ******* of spells to choose from and quite definately too few good buttons to bind them to. I always have to react fast if I want to win, what I'm again quite definately not the best at. I always think that, when looking at the other clases spells and abilities, one has to be really f'ing fast to hit cs in the right moment to not die.
We have in average the very lowest armor and hp in the game, and in most fights we cannot afford to stand there thinking, what might be next..
Now with the many new abilities that are new to the game, and some old ones that are now more frequently used, cuz the other classes realised they are good against us, I'm facing running away from guys who are 1m behind me, while I'm crawling over the screen at 30% my movement speed. Its not like that would be a small issue, cuz these dudes are quite often trying to stick their 130dps mace up my a**. And when I finally get some distance in between, there is some stun, or my Frostbolt is hitting 90% resistance or will come flying back towards me.
I mean while I am trying to play the one class where u probably need the most amout of skill to move it right or probably even the highest amount of skill to play it right in general in the whole game (I'm not hinting that I am even remotely skilled), every class will also toss in some of their ablities to keep me even more busy. So I end up having to use spells with 4min cd and more, more and more often to encounter some trivial spell or effect that can be applied right away again, or with some 2min cd max.
So my conclusion was, that mages need some new spell that wouldn't make us OP, but that is really annoying, and has to be adressed righ away, to be able to still beat the mage. Something that would Fu** over the tactics our opponents are trying to set up. Or probably some of the existing spells have to be buffed to be better. I just feel that our class has a lot of potential, but one needs unrealistic reflexes and skill to really play this class to its' potential.
What about spellsteal having just a 50% chance of applying the effect to the mage and a 100% chance of disspelling, but a much lower mana cost and some additional effect...
Seeing how deadly it is with our low armor and hp to be slowed while under the attack of some really high hitting melee class, something to encounter movement imparing effects would probably be useful.
I really don't have any idea if anything I could think of would make the class OP or if it would be just some crap noone would use, but I really think there needs to be something for mages to make them really annoying again and to keep up pressure in a fight.
After all it cannot be that mages have to be a lot more skilled than their opponents and still have to use f'ing long CDs and will still die when making just one stupid mistake while trying to pick the right button from half a million spells that are bound to our keyboards.
I know that getting more skill will make me also win a lot more than now even wo some new patch, but I'm still of the opinion that there should be something happening (I'm trying not to be some whining ***** saying" class balance is F'ed everyone else is OP" so don't start with l2p or stuff).
Its' always like half the classes will dispell my shilds and buffs and drain my mana and HP, or heal themselves while i have to react really fast to ancounet any of these things. In theory I can do a lot of damage, but in pvp-reality there is nearly never time to use my nukes, or just as some kind of opener, which doesn't really mean much in most of the cases looking at the hp of players in TBC. Of course I am not talking of following some zerging group in a bg casting nukes from behind and hoping that my buddies will kill em when i get the attention.
Btw u know what could be tough sh**: Imagine a shield that will make the next hit on u heal u for the damage it would normally cause... 4k execute heal FTW xD
Or imagine mana shield to restore mana when hit, ofc not as much as it is draining now, to not make it OP and prolly some cd but seriously: mana shield has really limited use in pvp, at best I'm using it at low hp when i still got some mana to try and run, which will just work out in the rarest of cases, and nothing else, cuz fighting wo mana is kinda.... interesting as a mage if u get what I'm trying to put down here.
Anyone else of the opinion? Or are u all thinking mages are easy to play and totally OP already?
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Annoying spellFollow
just undo the arcane shot and deadzone thing for hunters and I'm happy - it's not like I'll ever have a chance against a good warlock, but it annoys me to no end when a hunter just stands there filling me with arrows. Thanks a lot blizztard for A) giving them the ability to dispell my shield and B) to remove their deadzone, so I can't get a single cast of but are reduced to only use instants.
4 posts
Mages are neither easy to play nor OP. A full frost spec shouldnt have problems against warriors 1v1, rogues its about 50/50 now. Hunters and warlocks, as well as every healer, brutally rip us to shreds, so something needs done there but i dont think what we need is another ability. Warlocks, for example, get 20% mitigation and selfhealing when they spec for PvP, we need something like that. Also, like you say, mages already have half a million spells to choose from so giving us another one will make things harder.
You are kind of right, so I thought of taking one of the old spells, that are nearly comletely useless and make a spell of it that will really kick ***.
I mean, look at it, I do not think we are by any means totally the last class to ever win a battle, but a lot of thigs need to be reviewed. It has to be made easier to play a mage and by saying that, I do not mean like "make us OP", but the mage potential has to be a bit easier to reach.
Also I think it is vital, that blizz takes a look at the mana pool, cuz unlike some other classes our surviveability is depending on mana and there is often not enough of it cuz of healing and stuff. Its not too hard to get muuuch more hp than mana these days, which is IMO not soo great. I Don't mean half hp and twie the current mana would be good, but if one takes just a short look at the surviveability tree of locks, the get 15% more stam, and 20% damage reduction, not to mention some other benefits. And the tree is unlike some other survival trees of certain other classes totally stuffed with dmg upgrades. So we need a bit more powerful tool to stay alife than a shield that will hold 1 hit and kill us by taking away our mana that is vital to us.
There are also many oter things about mages, that need a makeover, I mean seriously, our 31 point talents can all be disspelled or stolen by 5 classes in the game, only thing still missing would be that every class gets some low mana cost magic disspell...
Ignite is a cool thing but the last time i tried it in a fire tree i noticed, that if a mage crits away a shield and he is doing like 200 damage to the hp of the enemy he will be ignited for 80 damage even if the total crit was 1200 and the normal ignite would have to be like 480 damage and and and.
I mean some heal would be kind of cool, and alot more surviveabilitie. Many will say now: IB is sooo powerful and we have ice barrier and stuff, but our tools that were once the most powerful slowing and kiting abilities are now weaker than most melee snares... Ice Block will save us and I think its cool, but it's not a tool for a continous playstyle due to a 4 min cd with talents.
I mean with all cd's I'm doing ok, but blizz is buffing other classes in a way as if they are assuming all our spells to be always up, and for these assumptions we have far too many CDs.
We need something to force other classes to watch out in a fight... its' IMO juat as easy as that. So they cannot just nuke away on us and have to watch out to not harm themselves, like we have to watch out when spell reflect is up. ?what about "melee reflect"?. I mean as long as I have been playing wow we had problems vs priests and locks and laughed about melee classes. There are enough mage vids from that time documenting sucky geared mages taking on multiple more or less sucky players and own them. Now melee classes are getting continously harder while priests and locks are still really hard... Where are the skills that made the mage class one of the strongest classes in the game once, at least if played well(we were always one of the hardest classes to learn).
In the recent patches other classes often get tools and buffs that seem to nearly be specifically against us while we get a tool to be more useful to the raid, or better: so not everyone has to go through the trouble of opening a trade window to us and lowest lvl to get it is ofc 70.
IMO we definately need some spells or changes to old spells to solve A)that we are reduced to use instant casts in pvp most of the time B)we need some abilities to get out of roots and slowing effect easily C)some stuff to keep the others busy.
And also we need some kind of buffs to some of our trees, cuz it cannot be that we need a certain talent (IB) to encounter some classes. Tell me I'm wrong, but show me how u beat a lock with good amounts of hp who has fully dot'ed you up when u can't mass disspell them with IB, before having your hp reduces to 0. I do not think that anyone could do that while the lock has more hp and heals in between. All our trees are damage trees and if all those hybrid classes specc for any of their trees they are pretty good in what they choose and mediocre in the other things, why can it be that when all our trees are combat orientated, some are just not worth it against some other classes. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that a raid-heavy speec will not be as useful as a pvp in pvp (surprise), but why is the fire tree not equally valuable as frost in pvp? Well that's just cuz it is lacking some of the essential points for pvp: slowing(controlling) the enemy; and ofc Iceblock and barrier as well as the additional nova from our water friend are missing, to last long enough to take stuff down in some situations. On the other hand fire can be strong sometimes also. But guess why most arena mages are 3min or frost?
I'm not some game planner who is earning his mony with making up ideas to increase class balance, but something needs to be done. We do so much damage? How come all other classes will just prevent any long cast from us anyways? other classes to a little bit less dmg, or sometimes more, and they just have to get into melee range (there are enough tools nowadays to do so), or even worse, just cast some instants, that are designed from the point of their damage output as main-nukes (cughDOTScaugh). We just need some nasty spell(s) that don't take imba amounts of skill to use and will be powerful against casters and melees alike, at best not as a 62 point talent in a tree we don't even have xD.
One problem is also that with our few amounts of hp and armor playing a mage is like balancing on a rope over some abyss while someone is trying to shoot you: you run in the wrong direction for a sec, gcd is up in the wrong moment, 1sec of lagg, or hitting the wrong spell from the half million we have and it goes like->slowing effect->melee crit/spell crit/getting locked down->hello dear spirit healer, my good friend.
I mean, look at it, I do not think we are by any means totally the last class to ever win a battle, but a lot of thigs need to be reviewed. It has to be made easier to play a mage and by saying that, I do not mean like "make us OP", but the mage potential has to be a bit easier to reach.
Also I think it is vital, that blizz takes a look at the mana pool, cuz unlike some other classes our surviveability is depending on mana and there is often not enough of it cuz of healing and stuff. Its not too hard to get muuuch more hp than mana these days, which is IMO not soo great. I Don't mean half hp and twie the current mana would be good, but if one takes just a short look at the surviveability tree of locks, the get 15% more stam, and 20% damage reduction, not to mention some other benefits. And the tree is unlike some other survival trees of certain other classes totally stuffed with dmg upgrades. So we need a bit more powerful tool to stay alife than a shield that will hold 1 hit and kill us by taking away our mana that is vital to us.
There are also many oter things about mages, that need a makeover, I mean seriously, our 31 point talents can all be disspelled or stolen by 5 classes in the game, only thing still missing would be that every class gets some low mana cost magic disspell...
Ignite is a cool thing but the last time i tried it in a fire tree i noticed, that if a mage crits away a shield and he is doing like 200 damage to the hp of the enemy he will be ignited for 80 damage even if the total crit was 1200 and the normal ignite would have to be like 480 damage and and and.
I mean some heal would be kind of cool, and alot more surviveabilitie. Many will say now: IB is sooo powerful and we have ice barrier and stuff, but our tools that were once the most powerful slowing and kiting abilities are now weaker than most melee snares... Ice Block will save us and I think its cool, but it's not a tool for a continous playstyle due to a 4 min cd with talents.
I mean with all cd's I'm doing ok, but blizz is buffing other classes in a way as if they are assuming all our spells to be always up, and for these assumptions we have far too many CDs.
We need something to force other classes to watch out in a fight... its' IMO juat as easy as that. So they cannot just nuke away on us and have to watch out to not harm themselves, like we have to watch out when spell reflect is up. ?what about "melee reflect"?. I mean as long as I have been playing wow we had problems vs priests and locks and laughed about melee classes. There are enough mage vids from that time documenting sucky geared mages taking on multiple more or less sucky players and own them. Now melee classes are getting continously harder while priests and locks are still really hard... Where are the skills that made the mage class one of the strongest classes in the game once, at least if played well(we were always one of the hardest classes to learn).
In the recent patches other classes often get tools and buffs that seem to nearly be specifically against us while we get a tool to be more useful to the raid, or better: so not everyone has to go through the trouble of opening a trade window to us and lowest lvl to get it is ofc 70.
IMO we definately need some spells or changes to old spells to solve A)that we are reduced to use instant casts in pvp most of the time B)we need some abilities to get out of roots and slowing effect easily C)some stuff to keep the others busy.
And also we need some kind of buffs to some of our trees, cuz it cannot be that we need a certain talent (IB) to encounter some classes. Tell me I'm wrong, but show me how u beat a lock with good amounts of hp who has fully dot'ed you up when u can't mass disspell them with IB, before having your hp reduces to 0. I do not think that anyone could do that while the lock has more hp and heals in between. All our trees are damage trees and if all those hybrid classes specc for any of their trees they are pretty good in what they choose and mediocre in the other things, why can it be that when all our trees are combat orientated, some are just not worth it against some other classes. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that a raid-heavy speec will not be as useful as a pvp in pvp (surprise), but why is the fire tree not equally valuable as frost in pvp? Well that's just cuz it is lacking some of the essential points for pvp: slowing(controlling) the enemy; and ofc Iceblock and barrier as well as the additional nova from our water friend are missing, to last long enough to take stuff down in some situations. On the other hand fire can be strong sometimes also. But guess why most arena mages are 3min or frost?
I'm not some game planner who is earning his mony with making up ideas to increase class balance, but something needs to be done. We do so much damage? How come all other classes will just prevent any long cast from us anyways? other classes to a little bit less dmg, or sometimes more, and they just have to get into melee range (there are enough tools nowadays to do so), or even worse, just cast some instants, that are designed from the point of their damage output as main-nukes (cughDOTScaugh). We just need some nasty spell(s) that don't take imba amounts of skill to use and will be powerful against casters and melees alike, at best not as a 62 point talent in a tree we don't even have xD.
One problem is also that with our few amounts of hp and armor playing a mage is like balancing on a rope over some abyss while someone is trying to shoot you: you run in the wrong direction for a sec, gcd is up in the wrong moment, 1sec of lagg, or hitting the wrong spell from the half million we have and it goes like->slowing effect->melee crit/spell crit/getting locked down->hello dear spirit healer, my good friend.
From my stand point another "annoying" spell would just be an agrivation for me.
I have been PvPing a lot recently. My husband, a prot war, wanted to be able to do something fun and not have him beating his head against a wall trying to get quests done and such takeing 30+ mins each.
I am also not frost I am more heavy fire build(no PoM-Pyro either), but after about 2 weeks of doing pretty much 3 daily's and PvPing the rest of the time I am not raiding, I have found that I can solo Rog's, Druid's (of any build), Shaman (Ele or Resto), War's, and S-Preists pretty easily. I also don't use key binding as well... yeah I can just see me setting off something not good at a bad time raiding, and for me it's way to much work to redo it often =)
Maybe it's the Dragon's Breath stun that is giving me the edge I need. Maybe... the horde I am up against just suck (our BG is about a 80%+ win for the Horde so.. i doubt that one but.. maybe).
As of right now, Poly gives your 6 seconds to think, be ready to cast it again, and you can make it 10. Soon, we will all have Ice Block giving us more time to think/wait for CD's to be up.
To me, I find it's more of a way of timeing my Nova's and Dragon's Breath's to be able to give me the biggest advantage to survive.
Alas.. as of tommorrow I will be spec'ing Frost 2 days a week for arena. So.. gonna have to learn how to PvP again as frost lol. Maybe raid fire spec is EZMode...... I would assume not since everyone is always saying FROST FROST FROST for PvP though...
I have been PvPing a lot recently. My husband, a prot war, wanted to be able to do something fun and not have him beating his head against a wall trying to get quests done and such takeing 30+ mins each.
I am also not frost I am more heavy fire build(no PoM-Pyro either), but after about 2 weeks of doing pretty much 3 daily's and PvPing the rest of the time I am not raiding, I have found that I can solo Rog's, Druid's (of any build), Shaman (Ele or Resto), War's, and S-Preists pretty easily. I also don't use key binding as well... yeah I can just see me setting off something not good at a bad time raiding, and for me it's way to much work to redo it often =)
Maybe it's the Dragon's Breath stun that is giving me the edge I need. Maybe... the horde I am up against just suck (our BG is about a 80%+ win for the Horde so.. i doubt that one but.. maybe).
As of right now, Poly gives your 6 seconds to think, be ready to cast it again, and you can make it 10. Soon, we will all have Ice Block giving us more time to think/wait for CD's to be up.
To me, I find it's more of a way of timeing my Nova's and Dragon's Breath's to be able to give me the biggest advantage to survive.
Alas.. as of tommorrow I will be spec'ing Frost 2 days a week for arena. So.. gonna have to learn how to PvP again as frost lol. Maybe raid fire spec is EZMode...... I would assume not since everyone is always saying FROST FROST FROST for PvP though...
the only real beef i have with my mage in pvp is the total lack of spells/abilities that will give us range. We have blink.. that's it. But it's on a CD and a real pain in the ***. Besides the stupid glitch is has about not going though doors and stuff you end up facing the wrong way. Buy the time I blink, turn around and hit a spell they're on me again anyways.
One great fix that I think would make things better but not make us all OP is if blink would wipe any movement imparing effects as well. With the CD it's on it wouldn't be a huge advantage we'd get... but it would make things a little better for us. I mean look at druids. Then can get out of anything with shapeshift.. and that's on a global CD. If blink would be somthing like that then that would really help out all mages.
One great fix that I think would make things better but not make us all OP is if blink would wipe any movement imparing effects as well. With the CD it's on it wouldn't be a huge advantage we'd get... but it would make things a little better for us. I mean look at druids. Then can get out of anything with shapeshift.. and that's on a global CD. If blink would be somthing like that then that would really help out all mages.
DarkHybridX wrote:
the only real beef i have with my mage in pvp is the total lack of spells/abilities that will give us range. We have blink.. that's it.
We have several abilities we can use to get range. Some have downsides, others have to be used properly, but Blink certainly isn't the only one.
Polymorph
Snare effects such as frostbolt, CoC, and Slow.
Root effects such as Frost Nova, and Frostbite.
Stun effects such as Impact.
Disorient Effects like Dragon's Breath.
Snare removal abilities like Ice Block(click on and click off quickly for an instant snare wipe).
I think controlling the range of our foes is one of our strong points, actually.
DarkHybridX wrote:
I mean look at druids. Then can get out of anything with shapeshift.. and that's on a global CD.
Get out of anything? I laugh at thy! Its ONLY MOVEMENT impairing effects, so stuns and stuff like frost trap, we are doomed.. besides its cost around 580 mana (talented!) per shapeshift, and we have to save that mana for heals also, keep that in mind ;)
besides, mages pwn me :( , Pyro + PoM-Pyro + fire blast = dead kitty cat :(
Well Probably I sounded a bit too negative,
I do not think that we totally don't have a chance against anyone, but it tkes a lot more skill than with other classes to do stuff right...
And when you say that getting range is one of our strongest abilities, then show me how you get out of crippling poison or hamstring, blowing no major cd...
And even if you should and start casting poly it kinda often happens to me that I'm not really far away from my opponent, and if he is skilled this will mean psychic scream, deathcoil, blind, gogue, or any other silencing or incapitating thing will hit me. Or he will reflect it and I have to watch out to not let that happen. or he will have some 90% resistance ability up... also try rooting and kiting droods, who break any root, do pretty much damage, have f'ing high chance to resist aoe, they are also moving faster than normal in catform outdoors and they can heal...
I do not want to say that you did not know that, cuz I assume you do, but probably you got some real cool trick that I do not know about that will make all my fights easier... But probably also not.
I totally know, as I have stated above, that mages have good potential, and that we can win some stuff, but getting really good takes kind of too much skill in compariso to other classes.
And there is this heavy relying on CDs and also that we have to blow long CDs to remove some trivial snare or root effect.
After all I think we need some buffs, and some things need to be made a bit more useful in order to get a nice class balance.
I do not think that we totally don't have a chance against anyone, but it tkes a lot more skill than with other classes to do stuff right...
And when you say that getting range is one of our strongest abilities, then show me how you get out of crippling poison or hamstring, blowing no major cd...
And even if you should and start casting poly it kinda often happens to me that I'm not really far away from my opponent, and if he is skilled this will mean psychic scream, deathcoil, blind, gogue, or any other silencing or incapitating thing will hit me. Or he will reflect it and I have to watch out to not let that happen. or he will have some 90% resistance ability up... also try rooting and kiting droods, who break any root, do pretty much damage, have f'ing high chance to resist aoe, they are also moving faster than normal in catform outdoors and they can heal...
I do not want to say that you did not know that, cuz I assume you do, but probably you got some real cool trick that I do not know about that will make all my fights easier... But probably also not.
I totally know, as I have stated above, that mages have good potential, and that we can win some stuff, but getting really good takes kind of too much skill in compariso to other classes.
And there is this heavy relying on CDs and also that we have to blow long CDs to remove some trivial snare or root effect.
After all I think we need some buffs, and some things need to be made a bit more useful in order to get a nice class balance.
I SO much disagree with the OP.
If played right, mages are still one of the deadliest classes in any type of PVP.
When I watch my real life brother's mage do his dance of death while I try to keep him alive on my paladin, I often get the idea he did not even need the heals. And in all honesty, he truely does not.
Yes he uses all his abilities, but that is why you got them in the first place, right? You are VERY versatile and adaptive but you have to learn to use it to its full extent.
If you want to play a 3-button character, best roll a warrior, level him to 70 and MS, IC and OP away...
Mages rule.
If played right, mages are still one of the deadliest classes in any type of PVP.
When I watch my real life brother's mage do his dance of death while I try to keep him alive on my paladin, I often get the idea he did not even need the heals. And in all honesty, he truely does not.
Yes he uses all his abilities, but that is why you got them in the first place, right? You are VERY versatile and adaptive but you have to learn to use it to its full extent.
If you want to play a 3-button character, best roll a warrior, level him to 70 and MS, IC and OP away...
Mages rule.
Just as I said: we do have potential, but its hard to use. I do not wanna be OP or the easiest class in the game either.
You are talking of group PvP with at lest 2vs x, but I doubt, that your "RL-brother" will live indefinaltely wo heals in the right moments.
It kind of sounds like you are doing arena, with long breaks in between the battle, but have you tried dueling several times in a row? After a few fights, where you use all your CDs to win, probably ever after 1 fight vs some skilled player you will just not have any CDs left. I do not doubt that there are really good mages out there, but when you say that mages rule and dance their "dance of death" wo needing any heals after all you are not even giving any example or specific situation to point out how we are so amazin...
I could as well say: "You are wrong, mages suck" without giving any reason, with the same justification as you say that they own...
So when you say that we own soo hard and can win each class exept class x, think a second about it: Do you really mean fair 1on1 in a duel, where both, you and the opponent know when its going to start, and what they will have to expect? Against good geared and skilled opponents? Or is it rather some hit-from-behind and make-them-use-all-CDs-before-you-even-use-one situation, where you blow all your CDs when its getting close, and toss everything in before he can react? What about you getting jumped? Still even chances? Probably not.
I have no problem at all casting Frostbolt at my enemy and pop ele nove right before it hits, then Icelance, and he is 30m away, in combat and slowed down. Taking over from there, with nova and IB still up and the elemental still standing there is not really much to it, even if he uses some of his CDs then.
But thats not what I'm talking about, I'm also talking about those nasty situations where he gets the first shot and probably is even skilled and one of the harder classes to beat.
You are talking of group PvP with at lest 2vs x, but I doubt, that your "RL-brother" will live indefinaltely wo heals in the right moments.
It kind of sounds like you are doing arena, with long breaks in between the battle, but have you tried dueling several times in a row? After a few fights, where you use all your CDs to win, probably ever after 1 fight vs some skilled player you will just not have any CDs left. I do not doubt that there are really good mages out there, but when you say that mages rule and dance their "dance of death" wo needing any heals after all you are not even giving any example or specific situation to point out how we are so amazin...
I could as well say: "You are wrong, mages suck" without giving any reason, with the same justification as you say that they own...
So when you say that we own soo hard and can win each class exept class x, think a second about it: Do you really mean fair 1on1 in a duel, where both, you and the opponent know when its going to start, and what they will have to expect? Against good geared and skilled opponents? Or is it rather some hit-from-behind and make-them-use-all-CDs-before-you-even-use-one situation, where you blow all your CDs when its getting close, and toss everything in before he can react? What about you getting jumped? Still even chances? Probably not.
I have no problem at all casting Frostbolt at my enemy and pop ele nove right before it hits, then Icelance, and he is 30m away, in combat and slowed down. Taking over from there, with nova and IB still up and the elemental still standing there is not really much to it, even if he uses some of his CDs then.
But thats not what I'm talking about, I'm also talking about those nasty situations where he gets the first shot and probably is even skilled and one of the harder classes to beat.
So... did you get pwned too many times in a BG, OP? Mages have a ton of spells and a great deal of utility in PvP and PvE. As Pol stated, we have lots of ways to get range on other classes and our survivability will only increase with trainable ice block (something which will cause great qqing on the oBoards, I am sure). I can see with that, the rogue pops up and hits you with crippling poison and cheap shot, mage blinks. Rogue pops sprint and possibly cloak of shadows... If the mage frost novas, you can wait out the cloak of shadows in the ice block, which also buys you time to wait for your cooldowns to be up again... One on one, mages stand a chance against any class (by golly I've even beaten a warlock from time to time). If you doubt this, take a look at some videos by Evertras. He does a good job of explaining what other classes can do. Roll some other classes, learn their tricks and techniques.
Less QQ, more Pew Pew.... let's roll.
Less QQ, more Pew Pew.... let's roll.
I was talking about arena, I assumed you also did ^^
well, as a mage (mine isnt high lvl, but ive been around long enough to still say something worth using, I hope :P)the key is to keep those melees away, and im telling you, if you can just keep the druid away with any kind of slowing effects, he will soon be oom, and if he is, he will die.
rogues: assume they get first hit (stealth ;) ) then blink away and frost nova, or some sort of slow, stun, immobilize spell on him, if he uses cloak of shadows, use ice block untill its gone, and maybe try not to wait untill IB finishes because that is what the rogue is waiting for, so maybe stop it 1-2 sec before and blink away instantaneous, or root/srun/immoblize again.. mages got a bunch of tricks up their sleeve (as you said) just learn how to use them and not.. I cant count the times ive seen 2 mages in 2vs2 arena use invisibility (as a druid in catform I can see humanoids on the minimap because of Track Humanoids, and if they are 2 mages that use invisibility they wait for the fight to start, so Ill be able to see them for half a sec on the minimap somtimes)who PoM+pyro me or my ally, and we will be dead.. use your tricks to their fullest, it doesnt matter if you do 2k dmg or 200, if you can prevent your opponent to do dmg on you, youll win :)
Warrior: well, if you cant kill an equally geared warrior, there is something wrong with your tactic ;)
EDIT: KTangent beat me to it :(
but he is right ;)
another trick to beat your opponent is knowing what HE can do, and not what YOU can do ;)
Edited, Nov 30th 2007 2:47pm by NecareXX
well, as a mage (mine isnt high lvl, but ive been around long enough to still say something worth using, I hope :P)the key is to keep those melees away, and im telling you, if you can just keep the druid away with any kind of slowing effects, he will soon be oom, and if he is, he will die.
rogues: assume they get first hit (stealth ;) ) then blink away and frost nova, or some sort of slow, stun, immobilize spell on him, if he uses cloak of shadows, use ice block untill its gone, and maybe try not to wait untill IB finishes because that is what the rogue is waiting for, so maybe stop it 1-2 sec before and blink away instantaneous, or root/srun/immoblize again.. mages got a bunch of tricks up their sleeve (as you said) just learn how to use them and not.. I cant count the times ive seen 2 mages in 2vs2 arena use invisibility (as a druid in catform I can see humanoids on the minimap because of Track Humanoids, and if they are 2 mages that use invisibility they wait for the fight to start, so Ill be able to see them for half a sec on the minimap somtimes)who PoM+pyro me or my ally, and we will be dead.. use your tricks to their fullest, it doesnt matter if you do 2k dmg or 200, if you can prevent your opponent to do dmg on you, youll win :)
Warrior: well, if you cant kill an equally geared warrior, there is something wrong with your tactic ;)
EDIT: KTangent beat me to it :(
but he is right ;)
another trick to beat your opponent is knowing what HE can do, and not what YOU can do ;)
Edited, Nov 30th 2007 2:47pm by NecareXX
Yeh right, rogues never ever open with imp. kick to silence me. Then they don't slow me to 30% speed and when I blink they will not be right behind me aghain, using blind to prevent action from me. I will then Iceblock, IF I'm specced for it that is, and try freezing him, which he will not break immediately with trinket/vanish/or the many other things there are. He will then not start reducing my life to 0 while I cannot Iceblock and when i take elemental for help he will not use cloak of shadows to encounter the nova or get freezed and use some of the unrooting abilities he has not yet used-> somewhere there I end up dead. Really easy fight, I really understand those ppl whispering me that I should have beaten him cuz I'm a frost mage and we are soooo wtfop against melee...
And BTW have u ever known that it is unwise to blink out of charge? it is better to root warriors , and then sheep or something, but did you ever get a imp. hamstring proc right in the second where you should run away? yeh, again this situation where you use IB when you might need it for more important situations.
Yeh, Droods do totally no damage, and by the time they are oom I'm at full hp, cuz they had no chance to even get close once while they had mana (dripping with irony). and when they have no mana, potions do not exist... and ofc the things I used to force him to burn his mana do not cost any mana, so I'm at full mana when its time to nuke...
I could just write on and on and it would sound more and more insulting and like I would think our class can't do ****, and this is not true.
like I said: there is potential and I'm not even close to make full use of it, so I'm certainly not the best one to talk about these prblems, but just saying we are op and can always get to the right distance and one sucks if he can't beat a warrior is just some bragging, that has no real background information. You just say what we have and not, that half of it will be encountered half a second later by any skilled player.
Just like you said, we can do a lot of slwing moves and stuff, but its more important what others can do to encounter it...
I can kite some melee elite over half the map or until I'm oom and have evocated, so I have no real prblems with that, only thing thats wrong with this way of thinking is, that this is just looking at my abilities, cuz most melee mobs don't have any. Players do. So in theory all works out, but looking at reality I'm not the ony one who is loosing against warriors. Well it is only fair to say, that I often try to improve my skills by dueling warriors, who are a lot better geared than me, and that i CAN beat warriors with the same kind of gear. Its just not easy.
And BTW have u ever known that it is unwise to blink out of charge? it is better to root warriors , and then sheep or something, but did you ever get a imp. hamstring proc right in the second where you should run away? yeh, again this situation where you use IB when you might need it for more important situations.
Yeh, Droods do totally no damage, and by the time they are oom I'm at full hp, cuz they had no chance to even get close once while they had mana (dripping with irony). and when they have no mana, potions do not exist... and ofc the things I used to force him to burn his mana do not cost any mana, so I'm at full mana when its time to nuke...
I could just write on and on and it would sound more and more insulting and like I would think our class can't do ****, and this is not true.
like I said: there is potential and I'm not even close to make full use of it, so I'm certainly not the best one to talk about these prblems, but just saying we are op and can always get to the right distance and one sucks if he can't beat a warrior is just some bragging, that has no real background information. You just say what we have and not, that half of it will be encountered half a second later by any skilled player.
Just like you said, we can do a lot of slwing moves and stuff, but its more important what others can do to encounter it...
I can kite some melee elite over half the map or until I'm oom and have evocated, so I have no real prblems with that, only thing thats wrong with this way of thinking is, that this is just looking at my abilities, cuz most melee mobs don't have any. Players do. So in theory all works out, but looking at reality I'm not the ony one who is loosing against warriors. Well it is only fair to say, that I often try to improve my skills by dueling warriors, who are a lot better geared than me, and that i CAN beat warriors with the same kind of gear. Its just not easy.
Quote:
So in theory all works out, but looking at reality I'm not the ony one who is loosing against warriors. Well it is only fair to say, that I often try to improve my skills by dueling warriors, who are a lot better geared than me, and that i CAN beat warriors with the same kind of gear. Its just not easy.
As much as mages have a shot to kill any other class, there are some classes that are easier than others. I've run into some warriors that carved me up... and they had a ton of resilience meaning I couldn't kill them as quickly AND they had 15K health. Just because a warrior can beat you doesn't me you lose or need to reroll. A well played class can just about always beat you if they are played right. Rogues and warlocks are more problematic as they have a lot of options to use that can beat you. When I get fed up with being killed by locks, I hop onto my rogue and go kill them. It is my rogue's favorite thing to kill (along with priests). The best thing you can do with a loss is figure out how you could have done better to beat the opponent.
Also remember that Battlegrounds are full of a mix of people, some of which love to PvP and others may be doing it for their first time. It's arena where you run into teams of people that are even more coordinated than BGs can be. This is where it gets tough, but I am not an expert on arena. My team barely managed to get above 1600 for a short time. Also, realize that even in arena, it is rarely true 1v1 and hardly ever 1v1 for BGs, so you are at your strength trying to do what mages do best. Get range and kill.
Go forth and pew pew.
I think a nice change would be giving ice lance the frost slowing effect to slow the movement speed. Its instant cast so we could kite better from melee. I use level 1 frost bolts but that is still 1.5 secs and little dmg. Also how about a disarm spell to allow us to stop hunters from attacking the way they can silence us. Also maybe blink also gives dodge for 3 secs. So we cant be hit.
Talking arena here but all I know is I poly something (if I am not silenced, interupted)...they trinket out...I frost nova and they break out right away (not sure how people are doing that but wars break right out) That needs to stop. Hell make frost nova like frost trap...slow in an area or something. If I dont have pom I cant cast fireball or frostbolt. I can only use AM and instant cast. AM does good dmg but as a frost mage my +arcane magic is low. My dmg is 600ish on an AM volley. Maybe all this haste herioc badge gear will be good for us but maybe they just need to reduce frostbolt/fireball cast to 1.5 secs.
I find I can survive with ice block and ice barrier but I do little dmg.
Talking arena here but all I know is I poly something (if I am not silenced, interupted)...they trinket out...I frost nova and they break out right away (not sure how people are doing that but wars break right out) That needs to stop. Hell make frost nova like frost trap...slow in an area or something. If I dont have pom I cant cast fireball or frostbolt. I can only use AM and instant cast. AM does good dmg but as a frost mage my +arcane magic is low. My dmg is 600ish on an AM volley. Maybe all this haste herioc badge gear will be good for us but maybe they just need to reduce frostbolt/fireball cast to 1.5 secs.
I find I can survive with ice block and ice barrier but I do little dmg.
17 posts
I think it would be fun if some of our fire spells (the ones that cause your target to keep burning after the initial effect like fireball, pyroblast, ignite) had a "panic" feature. While you are burning, you are panicked and every 3 seconds you have a 20% chance (for instance) to lose your current target. This will cause them to stop swinging at you until they reaquire you, or if they are casting will cause them to lose the cast since they have no target.
Anyway, it's just a thought.
Anyway, it's just a thought.
Cool, totally forgot about this discussion... ^^
But seriously guys, I was rather thinking that peeps would come up with some really clever ideas, use their imagination, to think what other classes got and to think about how we could probably get something to even stuff out...
Like: mages are kings of aoe? In practical situations? Rather not... It really doesn't matter what way u look at the situation, but can u guys think of some spell we have, that does easy, fast aoe damage, isn't limited to some special area and does not require getting dangerously close to a lot of angry guys who wanna kill you? Also in PvP? no mage spell comes to my mind... But some silent voice whispers me: 2k unbuffed multishot crits easily done... ever heard of chain lightning?
What about some frost volley? Basically a frost pyro, doing good damage, reciving more benefit from spelldmg than frostbolt, and freezing the target to the ground, allowing you a frostbolt with shatter benefit and an icelance.
Is dragon's breath useful? Sometimes yes, but not always, and you have to be pretty darned close... And in addition our firetree is rather the raiding tree, so what will a mage who wants to go raiding do with a spell that is to large extends useless to raiding... Either make the fire tree better for PvP or give some better utility for raids. Or what about dragon's stomp? looks like blizzard aiming circle when u aim it and is an instant effect, that does the same thing as dragon's breath, just over a safe distance. It coould look like a large dragon claw smashing down in the targe area, that is composed of fire. Could be compareable to shadowfury.
Isn't anyone else of the op that our aoe isn't quite as strong as it could be? When warriors aoe, then they get full benefit from their AP, cuz its considered a normal attac, that just affects many targets. But dragon's breath and blastwave is cool below lvl 70, but when it comes down to everyone having more and more hp and also you having more SD+ then it sounds totally fair.... If it wasn't for our aoe effecs reciving like what? 14% of our SD+? So I think if its already the only spells we can put out in PvP against any skilled player, why can't they also hurt more? I mean if I already sacrifice myself, throwing me in the middle of 7 enemy players I want it to hurt, not just like get out one lame hit->silence->stun->stun->back to spirit healer after 3 secs, fastest way to travel besides portals.
Besides that we also need some stuff to encounter the painful classes nowadays... I mean when I fight a rogue he can own me like in 3 different trees, while I might have a chance in one : frost. How do you counter getting attacked, you blink away want to sheep him, and suddenly he shadowstep-kicks you? What about getting silenced and when you blink blinded? Or this nasty crippling poison... Am I the only one who thinks that it really starts sucking always having to blow major CDs to encounter minor abilities? Ever thought about huntards? Yeh, those guys who can now disspell your buffs? Or silence you and scatter shot you? Or send their pets to do tons of damage, while they have tons of hp and must be killed, while you are reduced to using instant casts, cuz of his stupid unrootable pet interrupting you.
I mean you can tell me whatever you want, but there are a lot of classes/speccs where I'm like: oh f'uck not him. How often do you see someone say like: Oh c'rap a mage, better run... not very often I guess... with their 40 yard-sap rogues are not even scared of aoe to detect them anymore. Also a lot of other classes benefit from bugs and lagging a lot more than I do. Ever got robbed of your few last hp, even though u clearly froze the rogue and were standing away from him?
All in all I have to say I don't like having to rely on my enemy making mistakes to be able to win suff.
What has TBC given mages? A better 3min specc that won't help in serious PvP? A fire treee that does nothing else but to own the dmg counters by those few little % while the other classes can do nearly the same and also have a pet to help them and more armor/HP? And the frost tree, which is the only really useful tree for serious PvP, while other classes get more and more buffed to beat us even in this tree, while it becomes close to impossible to PvP with the other ones?
Don't get me wrong, I always loved my class, and I do not wanna reroll, but there is "room for improvement" to say it with mild words. And I was thinking that some other players might also have something to say about this, but probably I'm wrong, and you just know how to play my class a lot better than I do.
I hope I can give at least a few of my fellow mage-players some material to think about. Also I'm not convinced of my "godlike-wisdom", so if you think I'm just full of c'rap then tell me, and I will stop. (But plz don't come here from your hunter/rogue main and flame me cuz you do not want a stong mage class)
Mainly I was hoping that I could get a lot of ppl to discuss, and probably even get some results, that can be posted on official forums, to probably even get blizz to buff us sometime in far future.
But seriously guys, I was rather thinking that peeps would come up with some really clever ideas, use their imagination, to think what other classes got and to think about how we could probably get something to even stuff out...
Like: mages are kings of aoe? In practical situations? Rather not... It really doesn't matter what way u look at the situation, but can u guys think of some spell we have, that does easy, fast aoe damage, isn't limited to some special area and does not require getting dangerously close to a lot of angry guys who wanna kill you? Also in PvP? no mage spell comes to my mind... But some silent voice whispers me: 2k unbuffed multishot crits easily done... ever heard of chain lightning?
What about some frost volley? Basically a frost pyro, doing good damage, reciving more benefit from spelldmg than frostbolt, and freezing the target to the ground, allowing you a frostbolt with shatter benefit and an icelance.
Is dragon's breath useful? Sometimes yes, but not always, and you have to be pretty darned close... And in addition our firetree is rather the raiding tree, so what will a mage who wants to go raiding do with a spell that is to large extends useless to raiding... Either make the fire tree better for PvP or give some better utility for raids. Or what about dragon's stomp? looks like blizzard aiming circle when u aim it and is an instant effect, that does the same thing as dragon's breath, just over a safe distance. It coould look like a large dragon claw smashing down in the targe area, that is composed of fire. Could be compareable to shadowfury.
Isn't anyone else of the op that our aoe isn't quite as strong as it could be? When warriors aoe, then they get full benefit from their AP, cuz its considered a normal attac, that just affects many targets. But dragon's breath and blastwave is cool below lvl 70, but when it comes down to everyone having more and more hp and also you having more SD+ then it sounds totally fair.... If it wasn't for our aoe effecs reciving like what? 14% of our SD+? So I think if its already the only spells we can put out in PvP against any skilled player, why can't they also hurt more? I mean if I already sacrifice myself, throwing me in the middle of 7 enemy players I want it to hurt, not just like get out one lame hit->silence->stun->stun->back to spirit healer after 3 secs, fastest way to travel besides portals.
Besides that we also need some stuff to encounter the painful classes nowadays... I mean when I fight a rogue he can own me like in 3 different trees, while I might have a chance in one : frost. How do you counter getting attacked, you blink away want to sheep him, and suddenly he shadowstep-kicks you? What about getting silenced and when you blink blinded? Or this nasty crippling poison... Am I the only one who thinks that it really starts sucking always having to blow major CDs to encounter minor abilities? Ever thought about huntards? Yeh, those guys who can now disspell your buffs? Or silence you and scatter shot you? Or send their pets to do tons of damage, while they have tons of hp and must be killed, while you are reduced to using instant casts, cuz of his stupid unrootable pet interrupting you.
I mean you can tell me whatever you want, but there are a lot of classes/speccs where I'm like: oh f'uck not him. How often do you see someone say like: Oh c'rap a mage, better run... not very often I guess... with their 40 yard-sap rogues are not even scared of aoe to detect them anymore. Also a lot of other classes benefit from bugs and lagging a lot more than I do. Ever got robbed of your few last hp, even though u clearly froze the rogue and were standing away from him?
All in all I have to say I don't like having to rely on my enemy making mistakes to be able to win suff.
What has TBC given mages? A better 3min specc that won't help in serious PvP? A fire treee that does nothing else but to own the dmg counters by those few little % while the other classes can do nearly the same and also have a pet to help them and more armor/HP? And the frost tree, which is the only really useful tree for serious PvP, while other classes get more and more buffed to beat us even in this tree, while it becomes close to impossible to PvP with the other ones?
Don't get me wrong, I always loved my class, and I do not wanna reroll, but there is "room for improvement" to say it with mild words. And I was thinking that some other players might also have something to say about this, but probably I'm wrong, and you just know how to play my class a lot better than I do.
I hope I can give at least a few of my fellow mage-players some material to think about. Also I'm not convinced of my "godlike-wisdom", so if you think I'm just full of c'rap then tell me, and I will stop. (But plz don't come here from your hunter/rogue main and flame me cuz you do not want a stong mage class)
Mainly I was hoping that I could get a lot of ppl to discuss, and probably even get some results, that can be posted on official forums, to probably even get blizz to buff us sometime in far future.
just a thought instead of a new ability or spell or whatever maybe like a talent in arcane tree that restores idk 10% of mana from a heal we receive. So we get healed lik 5k we get 500 mana back. make it like a "requires 30 points in arcane tree" talent so that u have to go deep into the tree to get it thus preventing us from becomign raid dmg op since with a few hots mana pots and evoc we wud neve go oom.
Just BTW why does everyone seem to be faster than a mage, when he is trying to run away?(If he's not on blazing speed that is ofc)
Why do all the classes get movement speed increase, while it is vital to us to f'ing keep enemys away? just a thought however...
Why do all the classes get movement speed increase, while it is vital to us to f'ing keep enemys away? just a thought however...
Hmm I do not have a lot of raiding experience, but I was always thinking that we are doing rather ok in raids, so I was mainly talking about PvP, but ofc every little help is appreciated.
Especially if you know more than I do...
Especially if you know more than I do...
I'm bored, so let's talk.
Mages aren't about our own movement speed increasing, we're about controlling the movement of our enemies. We have roots and snares that are quite powerful at that, to be honest. But if you want a speed increase, grab a Boar's Speed enchant to your boots.
Arcane is actually extremely good at damage. The only problem is that it's mana inefficient. If that talent existed, we'd be overpowered in the Arcane tree thanks to massive threat reduction, excellent damage, and mana effiency.
Dragon's Breath is a large part of the burst AoE that mages are good for in raids. It's fine.
All three trees are going to have the ability to deal with rogues come the next patch. Besides, rogues are caster killers. You control them or you die. It's as simple as that. Hunters can't silence and scatter you unless they're deep enough in Marks to do so, and honestly, as I understand it, they weaken themselves against other classes to be stronger against casters that way. And the pet is far from "need to kill" unless they're Beastmastery, which means they can't have enough points in Marks to silence or scatter you. And again, you will have much better ability to deal with Beast hunters in the next patch.
How about a water elemental that is amazing for control, burst damage, and mana efficiency in attrition fights? A massively awesome AoE interrupt that also does a lot of damage. Reductions to four of the most powerful cooldowns in the game when specced for it. Increased burst damage. The ability to steal buffs from our enemies. A team based surprise attack ability(team based because you need your teammates to tell you where your foes are). Again, more burst damage, this one being mana efficient.
But yeah, I can see how you can say we got nothing.
Every class has room for improvement. We're not alone in this.
In summary, and in answer to this question, this game is balanced around 5v5 Arena PvP and raids(we'll ignore the latter as it's not relevant to the topic at hand). You deal with the classes that are dangerous to you through use of multiple methods.
1)Having a team that compliments your class and abilities,
2)Using terrain to your advantage.
3)Team play.
4)Having a team to properly support you.
5)Also, a good team.
This is not just something that applies to mages. It applies to ALL classes. If you're getting your *** handed to you 1v1, then that's gonna happen. This game is not balanced around that and never should be. It would be ridiculous to do so.
Just remember the PvP mage motto:
Control. Burst. Survive.
We have awesome tools for all of these. The strongest are in the frost tree, but they exist in all trees. Mages are fine.
Groarr wrote:
Just BTW why does everyone seem to be faster than a mage, when he is trying to run away?(If he's not on blazing speed that is ofc)
Why do all the classes get movement speed increase, while it is vital to us to f'ing keep enemys away? just a thought however...
Why do all the classes get movement speed increase, while it is vital to us to f'ing keep enemys away? just a thought however...
Mages aren't about our own movement speed increasing, we're about controlling the movement of our enemies. We have roots and snares that are quite powerful at that, to be honest. But if you want a speed increase, grab a Boar's Speed enchant to your boots.
Hellllllooooooooo wrote:
just a thought instead of a new ability or spell or whatever maybe like a talent in arcane tree that restores idk 10% of mana from a heal we receive. So we get healed lik 5k we get 500 mana back. make it like a "requires 30 points in arcane tree" talent so that u have to go deep into the tree to get it thus preventing us from becomign raid dmg op since with a few hots mana pots and evoc we wud neve go oom.
Arcane is actually extremely good at damage. The only problem is that it's mana inefficient. If that talent existed, we'd be overpowered in the Arcane tree thanks to massive threat reduction, excellent damage, and mana effiency.
Groarr wrote:
Is dragon's breath useful? Sometimes yes, but not always, and you have to be pretty darned close... And in addition our firetree is rather the raiding tree, so what will a mage who wants to go raiding do with a spell that is to large extends useless to raiding...
Dragon's Breath is a large part of the burst AoE that mages are good for in raids. It's fine.
Groarr wrote:
Besides that we also need some stuff to encounter the painful classes nowadays... I mean when I fight a rogue he can own me like in 3 different trees, while I might have a chance in one : frost. How do you counter getting attacked, you blink away want to sheep him, and suddenly he shadowstep-kicks you? What about getting silenced and when you blink blinded? Or this nasty crippling poison... Am I the only one who thinks that it really starts sucking always having to blow major CDs to encounter minor abilities? Ever thought about huntards? Yeh, those guys who can now disspell your buffs? Or silence you and scatter shot you? Or send their pets to do tons of damage, while they have tons of hp and must be killed, while you are reduced to using instant casts, cuz of his stupid unrootable pet interrupting you.
All three trees are going to have the ability to deal with rogues come the next patch. Besides, rogues are caster killers. You control them or you die. It's as simple as that. Hunters can't silence and scatter you unless they're deep enough in Marks to do so, and honestly, as I understand it, they weaken themselves against other classes to be stronger against casters that way. And the pet is far from "need to kill" unless they're Beastmastery, which means they can't have enough points in Marks to silence or scatter you. And again, you will have much better ability to deal with Beast hunters in the next patch.
Groarr wrote:
What has TBC given mages? A better 3min specc that won't help in serious PvP? A fire treee that does nothing else but to own the dmg counters by those few little % while the other classes can do nearly the same and also have a pet to help them and more armor/HP? And the frost tree, which is the only really useful tree for serious PvP, while other classes get more and more buffed to beat us even in this tree, while it becomes close to impossible to PvP with the other ones?
How about a water elemental that is amazing for control, burst damage, and mana efficiency in attrition fights? A massively awesome AoE interrupt that also does a lot of damage. Reductions to four of the most powerful cooldowns in the game when specced for it. Increased burst damage. The ability to steal buffs from our enemies. A team based surprise attack ability(team based because you need your teammates to tell you where your foes are). Again, more burst damage, this one being mana efficient.
But yeah, I can see how you can say we got nothing.
Groarr wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I always loved my class, and I do not wanna reroll, but there is "room for improvement" to say it with mild words.
Every class has room for improvement. We're not alone in this.
Groarr wrote:
Besides that we also need some stuff to encounter the painful classes nowadays...
In summary, and in answer to this question, this game is balanced around 5v5 Arena PvP and raids(we'll ignore the latter as it's not relevant to the topic at hand). You deal with the classes that are dangerous to you through use of multiple methods.
1)Having a team that compliments your class and abilities,
2)Using terrain to your advantage.
3)Team play.
4)Having a team to properly support you.
5)Also, a good team.
This is not just something that applies to mages. It applies to ALL classes. If you're getting your *** handed to you 1v1, then that's gonna happen. This game is not balanced around that and never should be. It would be ridiculous to do so.
Just remember the PvP mage motto:
Control. Burst. Survive.
We have awesome tools for all of these. The strongest are in the frost tree, but they exist in all trees. Mages are fine.
You know, probably you are totally right, and it might also be that I just happen to be unlucky with my opponents, and I just meet them in better gear than I have and in some specc suited to own mages.
But I was rather a bit confused by you saying we are good for 5v5 arena. The only thing we are really good at is dealing damage and surviving(IF we do not get silenced and 3 shotted that is). Our damage hugely relies on being able to stand still and cast, ofc we can also do other damage, but you can tell me whatever you want, we're not going to do as much damage as if we were just standing there and casting. And that IS a problem in arena. Other damage classes have good skills to survive also when silenced, for example hp and armor, while they just put unCSable (hope you will understand) dots at the enemys or get out nukes while moving that don't even have casting time. Or those useful easy-to-use aoe things like chain lightning and multishot, that can be done fast and hurt(at least me if I'm hit).
I think you are right, there always have been and always will be classes that are harder than others, but ending up having no real chance 1v1 against half of the other classes if you meet skilled players is ridiculous.
BTW I already said that frost is useful with whatever tools we got and that we can own the counters in raids, so there is no need to tell me. I was just thinking about the most recent patch for example.
Mages
Arcane Intellect and Arcane Brilliance mana costs reduced. (imba for PvP I admit)
Arcane Meditation (Arcane) increased to 10/20/30% mana regeneration. (mind blowing)
Arcane Missiles: Players will no longer get strange error messages when casting this spell at evading targets. The spell will simply fail. (ah yeah, those annoying error messages, always ruined my gameplay)
Detect Magic removed. All players may now see their target's beneficial effects at all times. (was not that useful anyways)
Evocation now regenerates 15% of total mana every 2 seconds rather than increase Spirit based regeneration. (that IS useful)
Fire Ward and Frost Ward now gain additional benefit from spell damage bonuses. Base absorb values of ranks 5 and 6 have been reduced. (great, a nerf for undergeared ppl)
Ice Barrier now gains additional benefit from spell damage bonuses. Base absorb values of ranks 5 and 6 have been reduced. (why did they put that here, they can just mention it in one point? or do they want us to think they did more for the mage classs than they actually did?)
Ignite: This talent is no longer triggered by damage dealt by Molten Armor. (yay, no more ppl killing us right after we sheeped them, cuz poly is chancelled by ignite)
Improved Fireball: The reduction in damage coefficient caused by this talent has been removed.
Improved Frostbolt: The reduction in damage coefficient caused by this talent has been removed. (again they made 2 points of one...)
Polymorph: It is no longer possible to polymorph a player and have that player remain mounted. In addition, it will now always be removed correctly if multiple Mages overwrite each other's Polymorph. (now that will really help, I own now -.-)
Portal Spells: Portal spells to capital cities can no longer be cast in battlegrounds. (small nerf here)
Remove Curse range increased to 40 yards. (have been waiting for this since I started playing)
(NEW SPELL) Ritual of Refreshment available on trainers at level 70.(saves work, ppl start complaining like is is my duty to make a table before each BG cuz ist "free", yeh, do you have any idea what it costs, doing this in every BG you join)
Spellsteal: It is no longer possible via this spell to get two Forbearance debuffs at the same time. (ty blizz this pwnz sooo hard)
I see mainly things fixed, that should be working the way they made it now anyways...
Yeh, and about the imbaness of the things we got in TBC, frost tree is good just as I said, but other classes get buffed to beat us also in this tree, and when you are talking about damage capabilities, did you also look what our wannabe mage sister class can do? They are not so wannabe anymore if you ask me...(locks)
Our armor spells are a joke in my opinion, we have to decide for one, and each one alone is kinda bad.
Mage armor: all resistances increased by 18 and mana regen at least 30% of normal at all times... so tell me is 18 resistance a joke or not, and how much regen would you need for this buff to make sense during the average encounter? Or is it only intended to be used with our imbaly buffed talent in the arcane tree? No ty for mana regen I will better rely on gems, pots and evocation.
Ice armor: speed may be slowed by 30%, if talented even more, and they might get rooted if talented ofc. Attack speed slowed by 25%. And frost resist increased by 18. Really useful, only problem: affects only melee, and the classes that we have problems with, can encounter it. Also let's not talk about the 18 resist they are c'rap.
You might say that the resist are great, cuz its sooo hard to get and soo expensive, and because of that imba, but look at it from a more practical point of view... Will 18 resist really help? No? Thats at least my OP.
Molten armor: Crit chance increased by 3% chance of being crit reduced by 5%, deals 75 fire damage when struck in combat, is not increased by spelldamage=c'rap. The other stats are great, -5% crit is good and compliments resilience really well, but it seems to me as if blizzard cannot decide if it is for PvP or PvE. In pve I use it not cuz 3% is soo imba, but cuz its better than a passive buff for dps... Doesn't affect casters with the damage.
All in all they are not sooo bad that I wouldn't bother buffing myself with them, but what did blizz do to locks? First create a class and give it less dmg than mages and then give it a 100 dmg+ buff? I mean like WTF? Couldn't they increase dmg of locks in a more subtle way, like more of their dmg+ going to their spells? I mean its not like they have a real choice to choose another buff do they? This way its like: look mages, we did not forget to treat you worse that locks... And WTF is this tier6 set bonus about? 6% more damage to locks and 5% to mages? Our armor buffs are not really specialised for anything. And AI, c'mon 40 int? drood buff gives 25 to all stats and all the sta buffs around 80... would int really make us op? Seeing how we can also buff other palyers with it? Is a major buff too much to be given to us? 100-120int? I mean with those 40 int I can buff lock pets, and their mana bar is not much smaller after that... It doesn't have to be that much though...
Also our image... locks look like demons, they can get cool wings and they have a cool demon with them, shammys look like a vulcano about to explode in one of their sets... and mages look like uhm well mages. Hey, just for the fun of it, why can't we look cool also? Not saying we look crappy, but as someone stated: blizz will give our armor better looks as soon as locks can switch to nefarian form.
But I was rather a bit confused by you saying we are good for 5v5 arena. The only thing we are really good at is dealing damage and surviving(IF we do not get silenced and 3 shotted that is). Our damage hugely relies on being able to stand still and cast, ofc we can also do other damage, but you can tell me whatever you want, we're not going to do as much damage as if we were just standing there and casting. And that IS a problem in arena. Other damage classes have good skills to survive also when silenced, for example hp and armor, while they just put unCSable (hope you will understand) dots at the enemys or get out nukes while moving that don't even have casting time. Or those useful easy-to-use aoe things like chain lightning and multishot, that can be done fast and hurt(at least me if I'm hit).
I think you are right, there always have been and always will be classes that are harder than others, but ending up having no real chance 1v1 against half of the other classes if you meet skilled players is ridiculous.
BTW I already said that frost is useful with whatever tools we got and that we can own the counters in raids, so there is no need to tell me. I was just thinking about the most recent patch for example.
Mages
Arcane Intellect and Arcane Brilliance mana costs reduced. (imba for PvP I admit)
Arcane Meditation (Arcane) increased to 10/20/30% mana regeneration. (mind blowing)
Arcane Missiles: Players will no longer get strange error messages when casting this spell at evading targets. The spell will simply fail. (ah yeah, those annoying error messages, always ruined my gameplay)
Detect Magic removed. All players may now see their target's beneficial effects at all times. (was not that useful anyways)
Evocation now regenerates 15% of total mana every 2 seconds rather than increase Spirit based regeneration. (that IS useful)
Fire Ward and Frost Ward now gain additional benefit from spell damage bonuses. Base absorb values of ranks 5 and 6 have been reduced. (great, a nerf for undergeared ppl)
Ice Barrier now gains additional benefit from spell damage bonuses. Base absorb values of ranks 5 and 6 have been reduced. (why did they put that here, they can just mention it in one point? or do they want us to think they did more for the mage classs than they actually did?)
Ignite: This talent is no longer triggered by damage dealt by Molten Armor. (yay, no more ppl killing us right after we sheeped them, cuz poly is chancelled by ignite)
Improved Fireball: The reduction in damage coefficient caused by this talent has been removed.
Improved Frostbolt: The reduction in damage coefficient caused by this talent has been removed. (again they made 2 points of one...)
Polymorph: It is no longer possible to polymorph a player and have that player remain mounted. In addition, it will now always be removed correctly if multiple Mages overwrite each other's Polymorph. (now that will really help, I own now -.-)
Portal Spells: Portal spells to capital cities can no longer be cast in battlegrounds. (small nerf here)
Remove Curse range increased to 40 yards. (have been waiting for this since I started playing)
(NEW SPELL) Ritual of Refreshment available on trainers at level 70.(saves work, ppl start complaining like is is my duty to make a table before each BG cuz ist "free", yeh, do you have any idea what it costs, doing this in every BG you join)
Spellsteal: It is no longer possible via this spell to get two Forbearance debuffs at the same time. (ty blizz this pwnz sooo hard)
I see mainly things fixed, that should be working the way they made it now anyways...
Yeh, and about the imbaness of the things we got in TBC, frost tree is good just as I said, but other classes get buffed to beat us also in this tree, and when you are talking about damage capabilities, did you also look what our wannabe mage sister class can do? They are not so wannabe anymore if you ask me...(locks)
Our armor spells are a joke in my opinion, we have to decide for one, and each one alone is kinda bad.
Mage armor: all resistances increased by 18 and mana regen at least 30% of normal at all times... so tell me is 18 resistance a joke or not, and how much regen would you need for this buff to make sense during the average encounter? Or is it only intended to be used with our imbaly buffed talent in the arcane tree? No ty for mana regen I will better rely on gems, pots and evocation.
Ice armor: speed may be slowed by 30%, if talented even more, and they might get rooted if talented ofc. Attack speed slowed by 25%. And frost resist increased by 18. Really useful, only problem: affects only melee, and the classes that we have problems with, can encounter it. Also let's not talk about the 18 resist they are c'rap.
You might say that the resist are great, cuz its sooo hard to get and soo expensive, and because of that imba, but look at it from a more practical point of view... Will 18 resist really help? No? Thats at least my OP.
Molten armor: Crit chance increased by 3% chance of being crit reduced by 5%, deals 75 fire damage when struck in combat, is not increased by spelldamage=c'rap. The other stats are great, -5% crit is good and compliments resilience really well, but it seems to me as if blizzard cannot decide if it is for PvP or PvE. In pve I use it not cuz 3% is soo imba, but cuz its better than a passive buff for dps... Doesn't affect casters with the damage.
All in all they are not sooo bad that I wouldn't bother buffing myself with them, but what did blizz do to locks? First create a class and give it less dmg than mages and then give it a 100 dmg+ buff? I mean like WTF? Couldn't they increase dmg of locks in a more subtle way, like more of their dmg+ going to their spells? I mean its not like they have a real choice to choose another buff do they? This way its like: look mages, we did not forget to treat you worse that locks... And WTF is this tier6 set bonus about? 6% more damage to locks and 5% to mages? Our armor buffs are not really specialised for anything. And AI, c'mon 40 int? drood buff gives 25 to all stats and all the sta buffs around 80... would int really make us op? Seeing how we can also buff other palyers with it? Is a major buff too much to be given to us? 100-120int? I mean with those 40 int I can buff lock pets, and their mana bar is not much smaller after that... It doesn't have to be that much though...
Also our image... locks look like demons, they can get cool wings and they have a cool demon with them, shammys look like a vulcano about to explode in one of their sets... and mages look like uhm well mages. Hey, just for the fun of it, why can't we look cool also? Not saying we look crappy, but as someone stated: blizz will give our armor better looks as soon as locks can switch to nefarian form.
forget what I said about drood buff, I s'uck
I haven't seen this much text in one place since I read "War and Peace".
ktangent wrote:
I haven't seen this much text in one place since I read "War and Peace".
LOL!
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