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vs. warlock and felpuppyFollow

#27 Jan 03 2008 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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1,574 posts
MookusOU wrote:
Its been a long time since I was shadow but why does everyone continue to give the advice of keeping shield up?


That's not my advice. My advice is to put it up when the 'Lock casts Drain Life, as it will prevent him from getting any life back. You can use a lower rank to save mana if you have it hotkeyed.

A Felhunter can only devour magic every eight seconds. If he's devouring your shield, he's not devouring your Vampiric Embrace or Shadow Word: Pain. A reasonable tradeoff.
#28 Jan 03 2008 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
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- Warlocks are also played by noobs

Were you one of them? By the looks of it, probably.

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- can dispell everything from their aresnal BUT curses. They cannot kill you with one curse alone. (they have to stand and cast a shadowbolt with 2.5sec cast etc.)

You cant dispel a channeled spell. There are at least four channeled spells, three of those are damage spells.
Oh, yeah, warlocks can also dispel harmful effects in two ways: Devour Magic and Spell Stone.

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- can dispell their beneficial buffs (so do it)

Warlocks dont get too many that can be dispelled, especially if they are Demonology. The warlock class is anti-buff above all.
While you are despelling the DOTS, you are also using up the mana that is probably being drained from you at the same time, or you are just getting your life siphoned ;).

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- can heal yourself (how insignifficant this sounds eh?)

So can warlocks. They can also resurrect themselves-- how cool is that?

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- can burn their mana (at that point lock goes emo and starts killing himself)

So can warlocks; faster drain, but slightly less mana drained.
Rank 7 Mana burn: Drains 1021 to 1079 mana from a target.
Rank 6 Drain Mana: 200 Mana every 1 sec from the target to the caster (1000 mana total).

I should also add that warlocks get three fear-type spells, one of which is instant and two are cast. The main Fear spell can be cast at any time, unlike the 30 seconds between the priest spell.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 5:35pm by sederix

Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 5:36pm by sederix
#29 Jan 04 2008 at 2:45 AM Rating: Good
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89 posts
sederix - yes I was one of them.. I play from 2004 what is your issue?
I see a typical warlock syndrome here..
1. you are warlock, the king I see.. and no one has a chance.
2. you get crushed by locks all the time because you don't have what it takes to beat them so you have a trauma.

Anyways.. yes warlocks have many good abilities.. but lets see you attacked me so here is counterattack. Lets keep it constructive.

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You cant dispel a channelled spell. There are at least four channelled spells, three of those are damage spells.
Oh, yeah, warlocks can also dispel harmful effects in two ways: Devour Magic and Spell Stone.


Silence anyone? they cant dispel your mind flay either.. + shield when they draining

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Warlocks don't get too many that can be dispelled, especially if they are Demonology. The warlock class is anti-buff above all.
While you are dispelling the DOTS, you are also using up the mana that is probably being drained from you at the same time, or you are just getting your life siphoned ;).


If I can remove +100 spell dmg buff from someone I will do it.. but you probably wont. Well I personally have 3 DOT's on warlock too (VT, SW: P, devouring plague)

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So can warlocks. They can also resurrect themselves-- how cool is that?


Yes.. cool so how many warlocks did you actually see soulstoned in BG's after 1st 2 minutes of the BG? Yes exactly.. zero. Agreed however in world PvP this may come as issue sometimes.

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So can warlocks; faster drain, but slightly less mana drained.
Rank 7 Mana burn: Drains 1021 to 1079 mana from a target.
Rank 6 Drain Mana: 200 Mana every 1 sec from the target to the caster (1000 mana total).


Aaa nice one there.. so lets go into details because your noobishness is killing me. You somehow didn't cover the whole spell descriptions:

Rank 7 Mana burn costs 355 mana when talented 2sec cast. Drains 1021 to 1079 mana from a target. For each mana drained this way the target takes 0.5 shadow damage.

Rank 6 Drain Mana costs 455 mana, is channelled lasts for 5sec. Transfers 200 Mana every 1 sec from the target to the caster

So I hope you see which spell is better in the end. Just in case you don't.. Priest, less mana cost, more mana burned (2.5x more if you count that I will cast almost 3x mana burn while you finish the 1st one, you could get spell pushback when I will finish the 1st mana burn since it does damage, or you may not.. with fel concentration 70% pushback resist.), more damage (obviously mana drain, drains only mana so lock counts only on dots which are ticking on target)

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I should also add that warlocks get three fear-type spells, one of which is instant and two are cast. The main Fear spell can be cast at any time, unlike the 30 seconds between the priest spell.


Yes, WOTF + trinket + fear ward. The priest fear spell has 26 sec CD if you are shadow and have silence.. which I hope is 95% of PvP spriests.

You probably did not finish reading my post. I did not say warlocks are weak.. a good warlock is almost impossible to beat.. but these days? There are only few good ones on each server. I was merely trying to help the priest community because I do not understand the fear from priests from warlocks.. Sometimes you win to them sometimes you lose.. but it is not "OMG warlock, RUN case anymore"
#30 Jan 04 2008 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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1,574 posts
sederix wrote:
You cant dispel a channeled spell. There are at least four channeled spells, three of those are damage spells.


Actually, you *can* dispel Drain Life and Drain Mana, and if you're ahead in a mana battle it's a good idea to do so.

sederix wrote:
Warlocks dont get too many (buffs) that can be dispelled...


Fel Armor and Shadow Ward. Dispelling those two hurts.

sederix wrote:
While you are despelling the DOTS, you are also using up the mana that is probably being drained from you at the same time, or you are just getting your life siphoned ;).


Priests dispel two magic DoTs at a time. A SL/SL Warlock who spent 790 mana and two global cooldowns on Corruption and Siphon Life would lose them both to a Priest who spends one global cooldown and less mana. Dispelling Corruption and Life or Mana Drain at the same time is also a good deal for the Priest.

Warlocks are dangerous opponents, but not for the reasons you mention.
#31 Jan 04 2008 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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423 posts
Sederix ,don't embarrass our class ffs man.
Mostley all you said is crap.L2pvp first.
#32 Jan 04 2008 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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2,029 posts
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You cant dispel a channeled spell.

Oh yes I most certainly can.

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Oh, yeah, warlocks can also dispel harmful effects in two ways: Devour Magic and Spell Stone.

Admittedly a well-timed Spellstone hurts, but considering I have between 7 and 9 debuffs on him, more likely than not Devour is eating a worthless one (5 Weaving, SWP, VT, VE, Plague).

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Warlocks dont get too many that can be dispelled, especially if they are Demonology.

Which means the ones that can be - Fel Armor and Shadow Ward - are open targets, and they hurt to lose.

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So can warlocks.

I can get a lucky 3.5k heal off in 1.5 seconds (well-timed meta proc - really lucky if it crits, 5k), regularly get 1.8k off in that time, a 1.5k shield, and a renew ticking for 370 (assuming I still have buffs to buffer it). Can your lock do that?

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So can warlocks; faster drain, but slightly less mana drained.
Rank 7 Mana burn: Drains 1021 to 1079 mana from a target.
Rank 6 Drain Mana: 200 Mana every 1 sec from the target to the caster (1000 mana total).

You forgot to math, just like last time. Locks get 200drain/sec, priests between 350 and 525, priest's can pushbash, priest's do damage, priest's can't be dispelled. The only advantage a lock has is if he needs the mana back, the target can't dispel, and he doesn't get pushed back.
#33 Jan 06 2008 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyways.. yes warlocks have many good abilities.. but lets see you attacked me so here is counterattack. Lets keep it constructive.

LOL I'm sorry, but when you said "all warlocks are newbs", did you mean that? Because, if you did, then no one was attacking anybody but you at first.
Unless "all warlocks" only means the ones you imagine, then of course, I must apologize for being defensive ;)

Okay, how can a channeled spell be dispelled? Because, I have never seen that. Do you mean interrupted instead?
I found that Fel Armor has been mostly a luxury. Losing it can remove some of the threat, but one must keep in mind that with Soul Link, warlocks still get 20% damage mitigation and they still have a minion dealing 150~500 DPS on top Shadow Bolt or Inferno.

In reference to mana, which "math" exactly did I miss? We were comparing priests' burning mana, to warlocks' draining it. The comparison was between mana, not damage, and I quote: "can burn their mana", is what you said. You did not say "can damage them while burning mana".
I said warlocks can do pretty much the same, only slower. When you add things like the part of Mana Burn that includes damage, then you are completely changing the original comparison you made. If you are saying Mana Burn is better BECAUSE it can damage AND burn mana, then you should have said so, and I would have agreed.

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You probably did not finish reading my post. I did not say warlocks are weak.. a good warlock is almost impossible to beat.. but these days? There are only few good ones on each server. I was merely trying to help the priest community because I do not understand the fear from priests from warlocks.. Sometimes you win to them sometimes you lose.. but it is not "OMG warlock, RUN case anymore"

And, I am saying your comparison was not very objective, because warlocks and priests have a lot in common. Both classes can heal themselves AND deal damage at the same time; and both have excellent defenses against spells. Both have similar weaknesses.
I just recently did Eye of the Storm, and had a chance to finally fight (what looked like) a Holy Priest 1:1. I can say the only major advantage they had over me, was that they were healing faster than I could.
Up until his friends finally came to save him (which is what usually happens), it seemed almost as if we were evenly matched.
#34 Jan 06 2008 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
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89 posts
sederix - jeesus you even make me quote myself now.. just to show.. lol

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Advantage of priests over warlocks
- Warlocks are also played by noobs (face it.. there are noobs in every class)


You see a note anywhere saying locks are all played by noobs? coz I certainly do not. (you have maybe reading problems, comes to my mind here)

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Okay, how can a channelled spell be dispelled? Because, I have never seen that. Do you mean interrupted instead?


I just hope you were commenting lsfreak's post. No comment from me here.

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In reference to mana, which "math" exactly did I miss? We were comparing priests' burning mana, to warlocks' draining it. The comparison was between mana, not damage, and I quote: "can burn their mana", is what you said. You did not say "can damage them while burning mana".
I said warlocks can do pretty much the same, only slower. When you add things like the part of Mana Burn that includes damage, then you are completely changing the original comparison you made. If you are saying Mana Burn is better BECAUSE it can damage AND burn mana, then you should have said so, and I would have agreed.


I am not referencing only to mana, you are.. man you have it all wrong sorry. This is exactly what I am talking about.. "Skilled ninjas" like you playing warlocks are our biggest advantage. We were comparing priests' burning mana, to warlocks' draining it.. yes exactly.. priest is not draining it he's burning it so please mention all attributes of the spell. It is like saying.. "My frost bolt hits for 2k and your lightning hits for 1.8k but I kinda dont care what is the CD and mana cost, and lets compare dps :O" If you cannot see the difference it those 2 spells and which one is better for PvP then you fail @ WoW.

sederix - link your armory pls, thanks. I wona see your gear. Maybe you have fulls S3 and thats why you have easier life in BG's.
#35 Jan 07 2008 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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1,574 posts
sederix wrote:
Okay, how can a channeled spell be dispelled? Because, I have never seen that. Do you mean interrupted instead?


No, Dispelled. Look carefully at the buff/debuff bars next time you're casting Life Drain or Mana Drain.

Most channeled spells can't be dispelled. These can.

sederix wrote:
I found that Fel Armor has been mostly a luxury. Losing it can remove some of the threat, but one must keep in mind that with Soul Link, warlocks still get 20% damage mitigation and they still have a minion dealing 150~500 DPS on top Shadow Bolt or Inferno.


When I dispel Fel Armor, you lose 416-648 health--no 20-26% bonus to your Healthstone heal--reduce your +damage by 100-130, and reduce the life you get from Drain Life, Soul Siphon and bandages by 20-26%.

Think Fel Armor is a luxury? Stop casting it, let us know how that goes.
:)
#36 Jan 07 2008 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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When I dispel Fel Armor, you lose 416-648 health...

How so? You are talking about the difference in health from effects I assume. We get two "armor" spells, and only one of them actually effects health.

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Most channeled spells can't be dispelled. These can.

If it can, then great. I just never seen it done, so I did not know.

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Think Fel Armor is a luxury? Stop casting it, let us know how that goes.

I typically rotate Fel Armor and Demon Armor. So, I am aware of what happens and what does not happen ;).


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sederix - link your armory pls, thanks. I wona see your gear. Maybe you have fulls S3 and thats why you have easier life in BG's.

lol. I only have two of the Gladiator items (so far), and I am on PVE, so that should give you an idea of my BG life.
No one said I have an easier life. I was saying that I think priests and warlocks have a lot in common, and I dont think a fight between the two would ever be predictable because they can recover and damage in similar ways. Usually, casters like priests and mages have not been able to take me down (alone), and I dont think that is bragging or anything.
I have a priest, so I would love to know that he will be able to kick a warlock's *** when he's 70.


Edited, Jan 7th 2008 7:00pm by sederix
#37 Jan 08 2008 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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1,574 posts
sederix wrote:
Quote:

When I dispel Fel Armor, you lose 416-648 health...

How so? You are talking about the difference in health from effects I assume. We get two "armor" spells, and only one of them actually effects health.


The part of my sentence that you snipped explains exactly how so: "no 20-26% bonus to your Healthstone heal". Dispelling Fel Armor means a warlock's Healthstone heals for much less. Same for his Deathcoil, not included in the total above, but perhaps he's used that by the time his Fel Armor is dispelled. Same too for his Life Drain, also not included in the total above because there's no telling how often he will use it. (Probably lots)

sederix wrote:
[quote]I have a priest, so I would love to know that he will be able to kick a warlock's *** when he's 70.


Rogues and Warriors have the best shot one-on-one against a Warlock at the highest levels of play, but of the casters Discipline and Shadow priests probably have the best chance. I've heard that Reflective Shield plus a lock's DoTs gives many Warlocks fits due to spell interruption, and of course you know the Shadowpriest toolbox.

#38 Jan 08 2008 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
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105 posts
I'm confused as to why all the talk about lv 70 shadow priest vs warlock when the OP is a 40 odd holy(/disc maybe) priest.

In his shoes i would try burst the felpup down with smites as there is no holy resistance so few resists. That gets rid of the removal of your buffs and a silence. To do this you might need to go close and fear (can use rank one to save mana) then try and mana burn him to near zero while renewing yourself and dispelling his dots (if unstable affliction (later on) just wait till it runs out then spam dispell before they renew it). Making the warlock life tap hurts his life and also gives you chance to burn his newly gained mana, which can really mess up their game plan!

Good luck, i've found holy priests have an ok chance vs locks compared to other casters. As always though a well played warlock will destroy you.

Hope that helps
#39 Jan 09 2008 at 4:27 AM Rating: Decent
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In his shoes i would try burst the felpup down with smites as there is no holy resistance so few resists.

LOL totally.

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Rogues and Warriors have the best shot one-on-one against a Warlock at the highest levels of play, but of the casters Discipline and Shadow priests probably have the best chance.

Personally, it's been rogues and huntards. Paladins to a lesser degree, only because they have that shield thing, and their friends come and kick my *** by the time it expires lol.

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