Last night I was asked to off-tank in Kara. I have never been inside Kara (I've been keyed for months, however), so needless to say, I was very excited.
A bear was the main tank and I was easily pulling hate from him on the Moroes (sp?) and the Maiden fight. I don't know if it was me just being over-zeolous and going nuts on them, or the druid tank just couldn't put out as much hate as me, but I held off a little so that the druid would reestablish the top aggro.
Should I have held off? I truely do not know the roll of the off-tank when it comes to boss fights. I know I am back-up if the main goes down, but that's about it. I was not there to show up or show off to anyone and I respect the other two tanking classes, but I think it was just the prot warriors natural ability to put out high TPS in boss fights that put me over the edge. My build is not a raid build and my gear is ok (for heroics and beginning Kara).
I did get a nice piece from Maiden Barbed Choker of Discipline
and the first tanking ring from being friendly with the Violet Eye.
Here is my armory profile to show my non-eliteness: Calindc
Any advise for off-tanking?
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Off-Tanking in Kara question and some concernsFollow
Should be fine. Our MT always tells me to fight for agro during boss fights. That way the boss swaps back and forth from 2 tanks instead of focusing all his attacks at one. Not sure if it's the best way but it works well for us.
Funny thing is, I think I was unintentually doing just that. I would hold up for a bit and auto-attack and then go right back at it. I was so excited to be there and I wanted to bring my A-game. When I do my usual tanking I operate around a 600-650 TPS, last night I was sustaining between 750-800 TPS. The global cooldown was always on.
the role of an OT in our guild is to;
1; Be secondary tank. This can be many things. But usually this means, if you have multiple mobs to tank during a pull (trash pulls, bosses with adds, etc...) you tank one of the mobs. But usually we let the MT tank the biggest badest, it's was an ego thing for some.
2; Be able to DPS. This means you can put on DPS gear, and stay below the tanks threat on the meters. Many boss fights or pulls don't require more than one tank. And asking your healers to switch healing targets is asking a bit much. They should all focus on healing the MT during these fights. The MT will require that kind of focused healing, for the most part. This of course is null/void if your raid is severely overgeared for kara.
3; Take all the **** that gets assosiated with DPS and Tanking. "Oh the DPS didn't do this right" -OR- "The tank can't TPS!".
I prefer OT to the MT job, it's more dynamic and fun. But I ended up being MT due to me being in the right places at the right times. I got the right drops.
So, with that in mind, you can probably spec ... DPS and still be a viable OT for kara. You'll still need 485+ defense for lvl 72 trash pulls and 480+ defense for level 71 trash. So keep in mind that even though you don't spec into prot for DPS, you wont be getting that 20 extra defense skill ranks.
I specifically specced for Kara OT for a few months.
You don't have ... Cruelty. Please. 5% crit is a godsend for tanking. That way you can put on more defense/sta/blockvalue gear instead of DPS gear. You don't need Imp Defensive stance, that ability is way too weak at the Kara level mobs. You have a MT build.
OT build could look something like; 2h Blood Frenzy/Slam Build, Duel Wield, Weird Duel Wield Prot Hybrids... But you definitely do not need to be fully specced prot to OT in Kara.
1; Be secondary tank. This can be many things. But usually this means, if you have multiple mobs to tank during a pull (trash pulls, bosses with adds, etc...) you tank one of the mobs. But usually we let the MT tank the biggest badest, it's was an ego thing for some.
2; Be able to DPS. This means you can put on DPS gear, and stay below the tanks threat on the meters. Many boss fights or pulls don't require more than one tank. And asking your healers to switch healing targets is asking a bit much. They should all focus on healing the MT during these fights. The MT will require that kind of focused healing, for the most part. This of course is null/void if your raid is severely overgeared for kara.
3; Take all the **** that gets assosiated with DPS and Tanking. "Oh the DPS didn't do this right" -OR- "The tank can't TPS!".
I prefer OT to the MT job, it's more dynamic and fun. But I ended up being MT due to me being in the right places at the right times. I got the right drops.
So, with that in mind, you can probably spec ... DPS and still be a viable OT for kara. You'll still need 485+ defense for lvl 72 trash pulls and 480+ defense for level 71 trash. So keep in mind that even though you don't spec into prot for DPS, you wont be getting that 20 extra defense skill ranks.
I specifically specced for Kara OT for a few months.
You don't have ... Cruelty. Please. 5% crit is a godsend for tanking. That way you can put on more defense/sta/blockvalue gear instead of DPS gear. You don't need Imp Defensive stance, that ability is way too weak at the Kara level mobs. You have a MT build.
OT build could look something like; 2h Blood Frenzy/Slam Build, Duel Wield, Weird Duel Wield Prot Hybrids... But you definitely do not need to be fully specced prot to OT in Kara.
Quote:
You don't have ... Cruelty. Please. 5% crit is a godsend for tanking. That way you can put on more defense/sta/blockvalue gear instead of DPS gear.
Thank you for the great advice Devioususer. What would be the ideal crit % for an OT or a MT?
10% at least, but more always helps for threat.
I second Devioususers statement that you have an MT build. He posted some hyrbid builds and what not that will be a better suit for OT's. Mainly OT's dont have to spec the whole way down the prot tree as they provide DPS to the raid as well. I was OT for a while way back when I started Kara, and I was a Hybrid build.
With Moroes, you and the MT have to be top in threat. If you took the threat from him it was probably because he got stunned or something like that. Moroes switches between the two top threat producers on the aggro list (that should be you and the MT). So, you actually pulling or being targeted by Moroes is something that is supposed to happen. As for Maiden...you should just be straight DPS, no need for tanking her when the MT can do it.
If you want to be MT, just speak up and I'm sure they can toss you into the mix. You just have to be very aware what each mob does, or hope that someone in your group knows whats going on as well and can help out. But..right now, your MT build.
With Moroes, you and the MT have to be top in threat. If you took the threat from him it was probably because he got stunned or something like that. Moroes switches between the two top threat producers on the aggro list (that should be you and the MT). So, you actually pulling or being targeted by Moroes is something that is supposed to happen. As for Maiden...you should just be straight DPS, no need for tanking her when the MT can do it.
If you want to be MT, just speak up and I'm sure they can toss you into the mix. You just have to be very aware what each mob does, or hope that someone in your group knows whats going on as well and can help out. But..right now, your MT build.
Your current build is a main-tank build but can still be optimised a little bit. I would go for the following builds:
Main Tank
Off Tank
The reason I chose Tactical Mastery over Flurry is because as an offtank you will have less aggro generation and this will help a lot.
Admittedly I have never had to off-tank on my warrior but I use the first build and if I get 3 devastates off before the dps start they will *ALMOST* never pull aggro off me. I often have fun asking dps to try to catch me :)
Also, I would try getting Exalted with Aldor for Vindicators Brand your defense is high enough and I think it's a really great tanking weapon. Some prefer a faster weapon but I think it's fine.
Just my 2c
Hope it's useful.
Main Tank
Off Tank
The reason I chose Tactical Mastery over Flurry is because as an offtank you will have less aggro generation and this will help a lot.
Admittedly I have never had to off-tank on my warrior but I use the first build and if I get 3 devastates off before the dps start they will *ALMOST* never pull aggro off me. I often have fun asking dps to try to catch me :)
Also, I would try getting Exalted with Aldor for Vindicators Brand your defense is high enough and I think it's a really great tanking weapon. Some prefer a faster weapon but I think it's fine.
Just my 2c
Hope it's useful.
Our guild never used 2 protection warriors in Kara.
MT - protection warrior or feral druid ; OT - either feral druid or fully specced DPS warrior with good enough tank gear.
In fights like Maiden, Curator, Prince, Nightbane, Illhoof OT is used as another DPSer - and usually a very stong one.
At Aran even MT tries (for a protection warrior word "tries" fits perfectly :P )to DPS.
At Hunter Moroes or Netherspite both tank.
If you are able to steal aggro from a feral druid at Moroes - it means he is doing much too low threat. He should be above you by mile as you will shortly get rage starved.
It is different situation if warrior is being hit - the rage he gets allows him to get a lot of threat and he can compete with druid.
For Moroes ideal situation is when warrior is MT and druid OT as both of them will easily run wawy from DPS threat especially given a few minutes for killing adds.
As for MAiden we never used two tanks and that tactic is unnececery.
Get your DPS set out and help killing her. And in that case never go above MT in threat.
MT - protection warrior or feral druid ; OT - either feral druid or fully specced DPS warrior with good enough tank gear.
In fights like Maiden, Curator, Prince, Nightbane, Illhoof OT is used as another DPSer - and usually a very stong one.
At Aran even MT tries (for a protection warrior word "tries" fits perfectly :P )to DPS.
At Hunter Moroes or Netherspite both tank.
If you are able to steal aggro from a feral druid at Moroes - it means he is doing much too low threat. He should be above you by mile as you will shortly get rage starved.
It is different situation if warrior is being hit - the rage he gets allows him to get a lot of threat and he can compete with druid.
For Moroes ideal situation is when warrior is MT and druid OT as both of them will easily run wawy from DPS threat especially given a few minutes for killing adds.
As for MAiden we never used two tanks and that tactic is unnececery.
Get your DPS set out and help killing her. And in that case never go above MT in threat.
1 post
53 points in prot is a bit much. yur armor and health is plenty to MT the first half of kara.
you want imp t-clap, cruelty for sure. imp demo shout for the OT is a bonus on boss fights. let the MT do his job. make sure those debuffs are up. the more mitigation the better
you want imp t-clap, cruelty for sure. imp demo shout for the OT is a bonus on boss fights. let the MT do his job. make sure those debuffs are up. the more mitigation the better
If you're pulling off your MT before having a chance to revenge, even if you're using shield slam every time it's up, he's doing a horrid job.
The MT's job isn't ONLY to be the one taking all the damage, the MT's job is also doing enough TPS so the dps doesn't have to be threat capped while doing abysmal DPS. If you're doing 800 TPS and pulling from your OT, that person should not even be allowed to OT.
The MT's job isn't ONLY to be the one taking all the damage, the MT's job is also doing enough TPS so the dps doesn't have to be threat capped while doing abysmal DPS. If you're doing 800 TPS and pulling from your OT, that person should not even be allowed to OT.
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