I'm a casual-but-consistent player who's put together what I believe from my time here is a starting-Kara-ready set of DPS and Tanking gear. As bear self-buffed I have 21k armor, 12.5 HP, and 29% dodge or so, and then in cat I have 2600 AP and 31.5% crit.
So I've got gear, (right?) but do I "got game"? My pretty casual/low-end guild is teaming up with a guild that has Kara on farm, and I'm due to be keyed within the week.
But I've gotten where I am without running a single heroic, (never been good about rep and just got my keys thanks to 2.3) and I run only about one regular instance a week. I have a solid grasp of party play on the tanking and dps side of the equation...I have Omen and KLM and grok marking, targeting, cc, sequenced killing, and watching out for healer pulling aggro. Using my forms, too...I prevented a wipe or two in SV last night through some timely off-tanking and off-healing. : )
But not having run a single heroic I'm worried about my own readiness for Kara. Of the "level 70 instances" I've successfully run Mech (tank once, dps once) and Steamvaults (dps once), and know I could tank or DPS any of the REGULAR instances out there. None of those runs have been wipe-free though, so it's not like I'm "past" regular instances in terms of progression.
Are the mobs and mechanics in Kara different enough (read=harder) from regular level 70 instances (that sounds dumb, I know Kara is a lot harder than regular instances...) that I should really "warm up" in heroics? Would that help? Or is Kara a totally different ballgame even from the Heroics and I should just dive in to the ten-toon-scene and hope I don't cause too many wipes? : /
Edited, Nov 27th 2007 2:26pm by JeeBar
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Really, if those are the only instances you have done, then you probably do need the practice. If mistakes are made in regular instances, then the hunter can tank one for a bit or some such and you can recover or you can tank 3 or more mobs in an emergency. In Kara & heroics you don't have that luxury.
Failed CC can often mean a death/wipes and you need to learn to recover from that (much harder when healers get 1-shotted). And a wipe in regular instances means 5 people repairing usually blue items. A wipe in Karazhan often means 10 people repairing mostly epics. A full repair for an epicced out plate wearer is up over 40g.
You may have a strong grasp of how it is all done but practice really does make perfect. If nothing else, many of the new badge rewards are superior to the loot in Karazhan.
Other than that, you certainly sound like you know your stuff, so you have a massive head-start on so many other players. Do at least a couple of heroics just to get a feel for the new level of difficulty. I've been doing them so long now, that we often get a few pulls in and have to check to make sure it is on heroic :) Regular instances are boring, heroics make you feel like you actually achieved something.
My greatest achievement so far was not tanking Prince the other night, but managing to beat Heroic Black Morass with some friends before they nerfed it. It was the single craziest, hardest thing I have ever done. We struggled, wiped, ran back, pulled the last boss of the shield when it was down to 4% and finally beat him. Compare that to regular BM which is a real yawn now and you realise how much fun heroics are :)
Failed CC can often mean a death/wipes and you need to learn to recover from that (much harder when healers get 1-shotted). And a wipe in regular instances means 5 people repairing usually blue items. A wipe in Karazhan often means 10 people repairing mostly epics. A full repair for an epicced out plate wearer is up over 40g.
You may have a strong grasp of how it is all done but practice really does make perfect. If nothing else, many of the new badge rewards are superior to the loot in Karazhan.
Other than that, you certainly sound like you know your stuff, so you have a massive head-start on so many other players. Do at least a couple of heroics just to get a feel for the new level of difficulty. I've been doing them so long now, that we often get a few pulls in and have to check to make sure it is on heroic :) Regular instances are boring, heroics make you feel like you actually achieved something.
My greatest achievement so far was not tanking Prince the other night, but managing to beat Heroic Black Morass with some friends before they nerfed it. It was the single craziest, hardest thing I have ever done. We struggled, wiped, ran back, pulled the last boss of the shield when it was down to 4% and finally beat him. Compare that to regular BM which is a real yawn now and you realise how much fun heroics are :)
To clarify, those three runs I mentioned aren't the ONLY ones I've ever done...just the only ones I think are considered "level 70." I hit the Azeroth instances while leveling, just not the old end-game stuff that BC rendered obsolete, and in Outlands I've run most of the regular instances at the appropriate level.
That clarified, what you said here is pretty much what I thought/feared. And I hadn't even considered the fauxnancial (hah, just made that up) ramifications of causing a wipe of ten toons' worth of purple gear. Oofah, I better see how the heroics work out before exposing myself to that possibility.
Edit: "Oh, and thanks for responding. : )"
Edited, Nov 27th 2007 5:59pm by JeeBar
That clarified, what you said here is pretty much what I thought/feared. And I hadn't even considered the fauxnancial (hah, just made that up) ramifications of causing a wipe of ten toons' worth of purple gear. Oofah, I better see how the heroics work out before exposing myself to that possibility.
Edit: "Oh, and thanks for responding. : )"
Edited, Nov 27th 2007 5:59pm by JeeBar
With those stats you are definitely ready to start OTing/DPSing the first half of Kara (Attumen, Moroes, Opera, Maiden and Curator). In fact there are a lot of Heroics which (I personally find) are harder than those fights. It just seems the mobs in heroics hit harder than most of the trash in Kara.
So gear wise you are fine. You sound like you know what you are doing but I think it would be a good idea to run a few of the instances at 70 such as SH, SV, and the TK ones just to get used to the level of tanking required for level 70.
Just my 2c.
So gear wise you are fine. You sound like you know what you are doing but I think it would be a good idea to run a few of the instances at 70 such as SH, SV, and the TK ones just to get used to the level of tanking required for level 70.
Just my 2c.
#5REDACTED,
Posted: Dec 04 2007 at 5:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) HEY!!! I'm going to edyamacate ya. I'm a 70 hunter, epic'd out, and basically after reading this post, im debating if you've ever done kara... or a heroic, at least with a druid tank or half competent warrior/hunter. I also play a 70 feral. Note: First YOU CAN tank three mobs in kara at once. Druid = 26k armor and 16k hp in bear form, live it, learn it, love it. secondly if you can do it in KARA you can def do it in heroics. secondly "A hunter cant solo or tank a mob in heroics and kara for a while to make it easier on the group" WRONG WRONG WRONG. I do it in my sleep. My PET, MY PET, solo's mobs in heroic arc when i hit bestial wrath and mend pet twice... sorry i don't occupy mobs in heroics, you're right, I just kill them, ***** crowd control. In kara, same thing, except I actually have to dps the mob too. Oh and P.S. most people who do kara don't have full epics and if you do why are you there go to gruuls or EOTS. Oh wait if you havn't got a group with a hunter that can do the above or a druid that can tank three mobs in Kara, no way in HELL you've been anywhere past kara. Hell i'd make a bet you havnt done prince yet, or if you have its a small miracle... DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE GOOD RAID GUILDS. :) :) :) :)
While tempted to rate down for impersonating a madman, I won't. Instead I will try to clarify a few things, and perhaps make sense of it all.
Yes, and no.
Surely not all mobs found within Kara are of similar power level. Some will blow your head off in just a few hits while others will barely hurt you. (I'd like to see a non-overgeared tank take 3 Super Valets or 3 Flesh Beasts just prior to Prince)
On the other hand, this is kind of a non-issue. If you lack CC with 10 people, there's something wrong with your group setup. Why tank more and put a heavier strain on your healers when you can just CC?
Also keep in mind that if you're tanking a single target and a CC breaks, you can pick it up easily and your healers should be able to keep up. If you're already tanking 3 targets and getting the hell bashed out of you, you will not be able to pick another.
You're so awesome. Remind me to wear more appropriate vestments the next time we meet... You're like the epitome of the stereotypical DPSer who picks one mob and tries to kill him while the rest of the group actually tries teamwork and burn mobs faster.
Remember that Bestial Wrath has a CD, like Misdirection, and may not always be up the moment you need it. And when it isn't, you're one dead Hunter. FD? Sure, if you want your healer dead.
It's called The Eye, or TK for Tempest Keep.
Yep, that's right. We haven't done the 4 first ZA bosses. Nope. We sure haven't.
Let's say "the combined gold of all your characters" and you're on.
Quote:
First YOU CAN tank three mobs in kara at once.
Yes, and no.
Surely not all mobs found within Kara are of similar power level. Some will blow your head off in just a few hits while others will barely hurt you. (I'd like to see a non-overgeared tank take 3 Super Valets or 3 Flesh Beasts just prior to Prince)
On the other hand, this is kind of a non-issue. If you lack CC with 10 people, there's something wrong with your group setup. Why tank more and put a heavier strain on your healers when you can just CC?
Also keep in mind that if you're tanking a single target and a CC breaks, you can pick it up easily and your healers should be able to keep up. If you're already tanking 3 targets and getting the hell bashed out of you, you will not be able to pick another.
Quote:
I do it in my sleep. My PET, MY PET, solo's mobs in heroic arc when i hit bestial wrath and mend pet twice... sorry i don't occupy mobs in heroics, you're right, I just kill them, ***** crowd control.
You're so awesome. Remind me to wear more appropriate vestments the next time we meet... You're like the epitome of the stereotypical DPSer who picks one mob and tries to kill him while the rest of the group actually tries teamwork and burn mobs faster.
Remember that Bestial Wrath has a CD, like Misdirection, and may not always be up the moment you need it. And when it isn't, you're one dead Hunter. FD? Sure, if you want your healer dead.
Quote:
Oh and P.S. most people who do kara don't have full epics and if you do why are you there go to gruuls or EOTS
It's called The Eye, or TK for Tempest Keep.
Quote:
Oh wait if you havn't got a group with a hunter that can do the above or a druid that can tank three mobs in Kara, no way in HELL you've been anywhere past kara.
Yep, that's right. We haven't done the 4 first ZA bosses. Nope. We sure haven't.
Quote:
Hell i'd make a bet
Let's say "the combined gold of all your characters" and you're on.
Don't worry Selv, I rated him down for you. Good info in your post btw.
I'd rated him down too, and now I'm not seeing the post at all. This isn't the first time this has happened in the last few days with some of the <10 post chuckleheads that have been reviving dead threads and posting worthless crap in the board. At first I thought it was a moderator deleting stupid posts, but just realized I'm seeing the rating system in full effect, huh? Man, that's cool.
Now if only the system didn't make it so hard to sage-ify the likes of Selverein, Selebrin, Norellicus, and RareBeast, that'd be awesome. My clickfinger is getting tired just from rating up every single one of their informative and helpful posts. : )
Now if only the system didn't make it so hard to sage-ify the likes of Selverein, Selebrin, Norellicus, and RareBeast, that'd be awesome. My clickfinger is getting tired just from rating up every single one of their informative and helpful posts. : )
Thanks, just make sure you go for the helpful ones. Sage isn't anywhere close in my future, and we don't want a clique or an illusion of one. Just because I've been here a while doesn't mean I'm not wrong sometimes, and the new kids sometimes bring insights too.
Ratings generally don't mean crap, especially on this forum, because many people achieve a high rating for various reasons (many times for weird reasons). Sage isn't something you should shoot for, just something that will happen if you are generally helpful. There are a few of you guys that really do help (Jeebar, and Rarebeast come to mind atm, at least in my experience).
But those that read the druid forums on a regular basis enjoy what you guys have to say. I know I do at least. I am an MMO veteran but I am not a WOW expert by any means, so ignore the likes of that guy from above.
And Jeebar, quit being bashful, you help as much as the other guys =)
Sorry for the random post, just hate the idiotic posts that detract from the people that actually put out good information.
But those that read the druid forums on a regular basis enjoy what you guys have to say. I know I do at least. I am an MMO veteran but I am not a WOW expert by any means, so ignore the likes of that guy from above.
And Jeebar, quit being bashful, you help as much as the other guys =)
Sorry for the random post, just hate the idiotic posts that detract from the people that actually put out good information.
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