Have any of you tanks found that shield spikes help your aggro?
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in what situations are you not getting enough aggro from imp tclap?
enchant shield - tough shield
enchant shield - major stamina
are much better things to put on your shield. but to answer your question, yes, shield spikes would help your aggro. however, since they only deal damage when you block, and at level 45 your block % must be much lower than 20% (mine at 70 is 22% in prot spec), i don't think they would help you much.
enchant shield - tough shield
enchant shield - major stamina
are much better things to put on your shield. but to answer your question, yes, shield spikes would help your aggro. however, since they only deal damage when you block, and at level 45 your block % must be much lower than 20% (mine at 70 is 22% in prot spec), i don't think they would help you much.
The extra damage from blocking with a shield spike is, minor. You'll get better threat with +shield block enchant, from shield slam.
ok, thanks for the replies
Shield spikes really shine on pallies, who generate threat by reflecting damage when they block (or AoE grind with reflective damage on blocks).
However, for warriors (and somewhat for pallies too) shield spikes would only serve well in situations where you're already overgeared for the instance anyway, and can have several guys on you at once while the DPS AoEs.
However, for warriors (and somewhat for pallies too) shield spikes would only serve well in situations where you're already overgeared for the instance anyway, and can have several guys on you at once while the DPS AoEs.
Scholar
31 posts
Quote:
You'll get better threat with +shield block enchant, from shield slam.
Eh? no.
I'll trust someone with > 500 posts over someone with < 30 posts any day, especially if the person doesn't back up their statement with more than a vague word.
Here's some reasons why relying on shield spikes for threat isn't optimal:
1. Relying on a block means a chance to give threat, whereas using an ability (such as TC or SS) will garuntee threat.
2. As you get better and better gear, your chance to block eventually starts going down as your parry/dodge/to-be-missed goes up. Thus you end up with less damage given on blocks.
3. On multiple targets, you're not garunteed to block the target you need high threat on. However, you will hit him with shield slam.
Overall, yes the +block won't add as much threat if you keep spamming shield block. But in terms of TPS on a single target, you can get a lot more out of shield slam, and that means +18 block value would help.
Here's some reasons why relying on shield spikes for threat isn't optimal:
1. Relying on a block means a chance to give threat, whereas using an ability (such as TC or SS) will garuntee threat.
2. As you get better and better gear, your chance to block eventually starts going down as your parry/dodge/to-be-missed goes up. Thus you end up with less damage given on blocks.
3. On multiple targets, you're not garunteed to block the target you need high threat on. However, you will hit him with shield slam.
Overall, yes the +block won't add as much threat if you keep spamming shield block. But in terms of TPS on a single target, you can get a lot more out of shield slam, and that means +18 block value would help.
I could probably find situations when such an threat would be nice to have.
Usually it would be multi tanking when many mobs hit you at same time.
If you have good enough stats that you are not afraid of ever dying and tend to loose aggro - go for spikes. In my opinion this would be 5 men instances in normal mode.
For heroics and boss fights I would choose stamina any day.
You cannot really tank more then 1 mob in heroics unless you are using very good gear (raid gear), and you can easily manage to have enough threat on all bosses who don't dump aggro.
So for raids and heroics - stamina in my opinion is better option.
Maybe for multi tanking mobs like Solarian adds (on he other hand AoE taunt rotation FTW) but it is too situational for me. Besides stamina > all :P
Usually it would be multi tanking when many mobs hit you at same time.
If you have good enough stats that you are not afraid of ever dying and tend to loose aggro - go for spikes. In my opinion this would be 5 men instances in normal mode.
For heroics and boss fights I would choose stamina any day.
You cannot really tank more then 1 mob in heroics unless you are using very good gear (raid gear), and you can easily manage to have enough threat on all bosses who don't dump aggro.
So for raids and heroics - stamina in my opinion is better option.
Maybe for multi tanking mobs like Solarian adds (on he other hand AoE taunt rotation FTW) but it is too situational for me. Besides stamina > all :P
It could be taken either way honestly, Skribs. I'm ASSUMING devious meant the block value enchant, which would add to shield slam damage...especially since he mentioned shield slam in his actual post. Nashma may have interpreted his post as meaning the block rating enchant, which would add no real value as far as threat goes. It would have no effect whatsoever on shield slam. A fairly easy mistake to make I suppose, since there are both a block value and rating enchant.
Just a thought. It seemed pretty obvious to me that they meant two different things, but since Nashma missed the intended meaning, it's no less likely that other people might as well.
Just a thought. It seemed pretty obvious to me that they meant two different things, but since Nashma missed the intended meaning, it's no less likely that other people might as well.
Scholar
31 posts
Nah, I didn't back up my statement because its so damn obvius. If someone would bother trying to prove me wrong they would notice that shield spikes gives more threat than shield block value.
6 seconds versus singe mob. during that time you get away one shield slam, the block value enchant makes that Shield Slam with 18 more damage. with the +30% that every respectable protection warrior have its 23,4.
If you have felsteel shield spikes on your shield and block they will take an average of 32 damage.
assuming that you have a 40% of avoiding the attack and Shield Block used, that will leve you with a 60% chance to block the attack. So if youre enemy has an attack speed of 3.00 (veery slow) its most likely that you block at least one of those attacks during the six seconds and they take the shield spikes damage.
Both of them are physical damage, the threat from their damage is modified with the same values.
32 damage > 23,4 damage
I would also like to add that in most situations you block more than once every 6 second. Usualy you block around two times during that time in a single target tanking situations.
The advantage of tough shield over shield spikes is that it is usuable against casters as well and reduces damage you take. the disadvantage is that its more unreliable and generates less threat.
And yeh, i got some experience with shield spikes, in fact ive used em since level 30. I notice the difference right of the bat when i switch shields and forget to get new shield spikes to them. I think i will continue using shield spikes since Stanima enchants is nerfed and the defensive quality of shield block value is higher when you take many smaller hits.. but in those situation shield spikes is a better choice.
6 seconds versus singe mob. during that time you get away one shield slam, the block value enchant makes that Shield Slam with 18 more damage. with the +30% that every respectable protection warrior have its 23,4.
If you have felsteel shield spikes on your shield and block they will take an average of 32 damage.
assuming that you have a 40% of avoiding the attack and Shield Block used, that will leve you with a 60% chance to block the attack. So if youre enemy has an attack speed of 3.00 (veery slow) its most likely that you block at least one of those attacks during the six seconds and they take the shield spikes damage.
Both of them are physical damage, the threat from their damage is modified with the same values.
32 damage > 23,4 damage
I would also like to add that in most situations you block more than once every 6 second. Usualy you block around two times during that time in a single target tanking situations.
The advantage of tough shield over shield spikes is that it is usuable against casters as well and reduces damage you take. the disadvantage is that its more unreliable and generates less threat.
And yeh, i got some experience with shield spikes, in fact ive used em since level 30. I notice the difference right of the bat when i switch shields and forget to get new shield spikes to them. I think i will continue using shield spikes since Stanima enchants is nerfed and the defensive quality of shield block value is higher when you take many smaller hits.. but in those situation shield spikes is a better choice.
Yes, block value enchant. I havn't seen a block rating enchant yet.
Shield spikes are retroactive threat, while shield slam is active threat.
I think shield spikes can crit, but I'm unsure about how mob armor/resistance affects it's damage. I feel safe in assuming it's similar to 'instant bleed' effects. Such as the effect on despair, when it procs.
If so, it's unmitigated but avoidable, and can crit.
But, warriors are more reliant on consistent or active TPS for threat, as all of their abilities are reliant on actively participating. Which is unlike tankadins, who can rely on somewhat passive threat building (blocking = damage dealt; so getting hit causes threat).
I did try a shield spike when I was in the low 40's and had one tell I hit 60, and started doing MC/ZG. And honestly, it was, good enough and not at the same time.
Shield block value is threat AND mitigation. Shield block value is the second most important derived stat for tanking after time to live calculations. Shield blocks that occur during fights are tertiary in regards to the hit table, and what I mean by this is such;
If you have 490+ defense skill, 15% Dodge, 15% Parry, 9% miss, and 20% block. Your hit table will look something like this;
On a roll of a hundred sided dice;
1-15 = you dodged
16-30 = you parried
31-39 = they missed you
40-59 = you blocked
60-75 = you got crushed
76-100 = you got hit
Now, when you increase your block % somehow, say with the shield block skill. Dodge, parry and miss take precedent over block %'s. So +75% to block % table would look something like this;
1-15 = you dodged
16-30 = you parried
31-39 = they missed you
40-100 = you blocked
That's only 41% extra block chance. And it gets worse all the time as you increase in avoidance.
Summary;
-For tanking regular instances, 5-mans, leveling instances, shield spikes are a decent way to go in regards to threat. For tanking higher end content, stamina or shield block value are better returns for tanking.
Shield spikes are retroactive threat, while shield slam is active threat.
I think shield spikes can crit, but I'm unsure about how mob armor/resistance affects it's damage. I feel safe in assuming it's similar to 'instant bleed' effects. Such as the effect on despair, when it procs.
If so, it's unmitigated but avoidable, and can crit.
But, warriors are more reliant on consistent or active TPS for threat, as all of their abilities are reliant on actively participating. Which is unlike tankadins, who can rely on somewhat passive threat building (blocking = damage dealt; so getting hit causes threat).
I did try a shield spike when I was in the low 40's and had one tell I hit 60, and started doing MC/ZG. And honestly, it was, good enough and not at the same time.
Shield block value is threat AND mitigation. Shield block value is the second most important derived stat for tanking after time to live calculations. Shield blocks that occur during fights are tertiary in regards to the hit table, and what I mean by this is such;
If you have 490+ defense skill, 15% Dodge, 15% Parry, 9% miss, and 20% block. Your hit table will look something like this;
On a roll of a hundred sided dice;
1-15 = you dodged
16-30 = you parried
31-39 = they missed you
40-59 = you blocked
60-75 = you got crushed
76-100 = you got hit
Now, when you increase your block % somehow, say with the shield block skill. Dodge, parry and miss take precedent over block %'s. So +75% to block % table would look something like this;
1-15 = you dodged
16-30 = you parried
31-39 = they missed you
40-100 = you blocked
That's only 41% extra block chance. And it gets worse all the time as you increase in avoidance.
Summary;
-For tanking regular instances, 5-mans, leveling instances, shield spikes are a decent way to go in regards to threat. For tanking higher end content, stamina or shield block value are better returns for tanking.
devioususer wrote:
Summary;
-For tanking regular instances, 5-mans, leveling instances, shield spikes are a decent way to go in regards to threat. For tanking higher end content, stamina or shield block value are better returns for tanking.
-For tanking regular instances, 5-mans, leveling instances, shield spikes are a decent way to go in regards to threat. For tanking higher end content, stamina or shield block value are better returns for tanking.
There are only two "enchants" out there worth putting on a shield.
One is a shield spike. This is if you need threat generation, and works very well when you're tanking multiple mobs. I even required every warrior in my guild to get one for Mount Hyjal.
The other is a Stamina enchant. This is for bosses where you need the HP. In order to provide the same amount of full->dead hp value, you would need to have 10 blocked attacks while receiving zero heals. The amount of threat it adds is absolutely negligable (it's like, what, 3 TPS?)
Ideally, as a tank, you will have 2 shields. Your lesser shield you put a shield spike on and use for trash, the threat will help you. Your stam shield you use for bosses.
I've never seen a good reason to put shield block value on a shield.
6 posts
I choose shield spike. When you're multi-tanking, the mobs can help you out by generating their own threat. Plus with shield block and keeping mobs in front of you, you will be blocking a great deal of attacks anyway.
If you already have the survivability, threat is king. As shown by Nashma, the shield spike does more threat than extra shield block value, especially if you consider more than one block on one or more enemies. If you need the survivability, get the stam enchant.
If you already have the survivability, threat is king. As shown by Nashma, the shield spike does more threat than extra shield block value, especially if you consider more than one block on one or more enemies. If you need the survivability, get the stam enchant.
Well, aren't I glad I stopped by to see how this thread was developing.
Lots of good stuff to think on, thanks again folks.
Lots of good stuff to think on, thanks again folks.
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