So yeah.. I'm kinda giving in and going to make a twink shammy. Some friends are doing a twink spriest, hunter, and dr00d too. We're gonna go for lvl 49 twinks becuase anything lower is just plain boring (oooo... a lvl 19 rogue.. bet that was hard to do).
Now I've never played a shammy or really twinked anything. I've played a lock, war, and mage all the way up so I know how to play. Right now I'm at 26 and I'm really loving this guy.. sooo much fun.
Now couple of questions..
First off I'm not sure if I should go duel or just a mean *** 2h wep. The mace from the princess in Mara would be sick with WF. But would having 2 1hs be just as good or better? 1 shotting someone is always fun but I'm not sure if haveing 2 weps and just smacking somone down would be better for BGs. I know on my war a arms 2h will pwn a duel fury war.
Next is just gear. We can wear mail at 40 right??? wasn't really sure. Do any of you have any suggestions of any sets or pieces that are a must at that lvl? I'd really like to stay away from world drops unless I can find one (really overpriced i'm sure) in AH.
Thanks for the info :)
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Posted: Nov 27 2007 at 11:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you must ask these questions, you are not ready to twink. Learn your class.
Scholar
20 posts
I would personally DW. 2H is best for BURST damage, not consistent hits and damage. The reason I would go DW is because with DW you have double the chance to land a crit causing flurry and that other talent that increases your AP by 10% (forgot the name). With DW, not only do you have double the chance to land a hit and potentially crit, you also have a 38% chance to proc WF (if both weapons are 2.6 or slower and WF is imbued on both weps). Check out the EJ forums for some good info on the mechanics of shamans.
Gearwise, check out the epic bracers from WSG as well as the trinkets. Also look at the AB boots. There is a very nice right that drops off of Princess in Mara as well. Other than that just loot for gear with stam and str.
Hope this helps!
Gearwise, check out the epic bracers from WSG as well as the trinkets. Also look at the AB boots. There is a very nice right that drops off of Princess in Mara as well. Other than that just loot for gear with stam and str.
Hope this helps!
Pcgeek wrote:
I would personally DW. 2H is best for BURST damage, not consistent hits and damage. The reason I would go DW is because with DW you have double the chance to land a crit causing flurry and that other talent that increases your AP by 10% (forgot the name). With DW, not only do you have double the chance to land a hit and potentially crit, you also have a 38% chance to proc WF (if both weapons are 2.6 or slower and WF is imbued on both weps). Check out the EJ forums for some good info on the mechanics of shamans.
Gearwise, check out the epic bracers from WSG as well as the trinkets. Also look at the AB boots. There is a very nice right that drops off of Princess in Mara as well. Other than that just loot for gear with stam and str.
Hope this helps!
Gearwise, check out the epic bracers from WSG as well as the trinkets. Also look at the AB boots. There is a very nice right that drops off of Princess in Mara as well. Other than that just loot for gear with stam and str.
Hope this helps!
Burst damage = king in PvP.
At that level bracket, there is no resilience...which means WF crits are still doing insane damage.
That 2h from Mara is real nice, I had it around that level as well.
Also, you might consider not going Enhancement, but instead going Elemental.
What I suggest you do, is go on to the Armory, and check out 49 shaman twinks' gear selections.
I"m inclined to say go with 2 hander, as the burst damage definetly rules. However, when DW, you have a better chance of getting more crits (more swings = more chances to crit) which procs Shamanistic Focus. Between the reduction in mana from SF and MQ, you'll have the mana to cast your shock spells.
I haven't tried any pvp since the latest patch came out, so I'm not sure how well things will work. However, when I did the lvl 39 bracket, I did very well with my 2 hander.
I haven't tried any pvp since the latest patch came out, so I'm not sure how well things will work. However, when I did the lvl 39 bracket, I did very well with my 2 hander.
Thanks for the info.. no offence to Pcgeek.. but saying 2h is burst damage but not to go to it for pvp is kinda... strange. But also since we'll be playing at 49 for a while it won't be that hard to pick up the mace from mara and 2 1h weps and i can try them both.
And to kleptotron... i see in your sig your a 70 rogue... that must been hard...... noob
And to kleptotron... i see in your sig your a 70 rogue... that must been hard...... noob
Quote:
I would personally DW
Quote:
Burst damage = king in PvP.
You know...after a few years of PvPing as a Shaman, and have had a BUNCH of different setups...to be honest I'm kinda on the fence about 2Handers being the "end all to be all" answer in PvP. From experience, I'm starting to come further to the conclusion DW CAN be just as effective for PvP, granted gearing and setup supports it.
It really boils down to which "gamble" you want to bank on. While the effectiveness of maximizing burst dmg is a focus, the % of how much you want to rely on it, is the gamble.
2h burst is "impressive", no one can argue that. Course, we all know that WF proc % is a set amount (13%, factoring in the 3sec CD), concidering the nature of Enh burst dmg in a PvP setting, we're RELYING on a 13% proc to win! Course thats another way of saying 87% per attack turn, we're failing. Lets take a hypothetical weapon speed of a 2h weapon @ 4.00 (I know a more realistic delay average would be more like 3.60...but bare with me). That translates into 2 melee attacks over 10secs (I choose 10 secs as a "average" PvP encounter fight, your results will vary), or 2 chances @ 13% per attack to "end" the fight. While if/when that 13% happens it is usually IMPRESSIVE and borderline OVERKILL(typically with a 2h for me, I can WF for 1.3k+ and crit WF up to 2.7k-ish) to say the least...but if I'm a gambling man (and I'm not), 13% FTW rate I'm not finding in my favor per encounter, and "typically" after 10secs...its more than enough time for other classes to end the fight also.
DW is not as "high" per hit obviously, but since the typical delay for even a "slow" 1h is nearly half that of a 2h, the odds that WF will proc are higher per given 10sec time frame. I tend to average a 700-900 ish for a WF proc and 1.5k per WF crit per MH (obviously less for OH), not as "high" a proc as a 2h does, but factor in that it was just for ONE hand, and the 2nd hand still has a chance to hit, it kinda levels out per attack turn. Not to mention since the amounts of proc chances per turn are 2 instead of 1 like a 1h, the odds are "better".
Granted for my setup, a SINGLE WF proc from a 1h is still a conciderable amount, might not KILL in one, but it will happen more often than a 2h...and a follow up attack is coming in 1/2 the time, compared to a 2h.
I might argue to say that IF(here's the situational part) you can average the "same" amount, per attack turn/WF proc as a non-crit WF proc on a 2h, THEN you might be in contention to have a effective DW PvP setup. But, as I stated...much is situational.
Been thinkin about making a lvl 19 shaman twink since now we can use 2h axe and maces, gotta check see if there are any worth it at the lvl first tho.
And i dunno if there is enough +hit for that level to make DW worth while for twinking, but i never made a twink could be wrong. Anyhow at that lvl ppl have such low healths you can probably WF 1 shot ppl with a 2h anyhow lol.
But hey try what you want and hope it works out for you bro.
And i dunno if there is enough +hit for that level to make DW worth while for twinking, but i never made a twink could be wrong. Anyhow at that lvl ppl have such low healths you can probably WF 1 shot ppl with a 2h anyhow lol.
But hey try what you want and hope it works out for you bro.
You won't be able to DW at the lvl 19 range. I don't think you can pick up DW until you are at least lvl 40.
Scholar
20 posts
I understand where you guys are coming from. "Most burst damage is best" right? Well, wrong in my opinion.
Lets say you have a 2h wep that has the speed of 3.5 (pulling the number out of my ***). This of course means that you will hit every 3.5 seconds, meaning you have 1 chance to crit and one chance to windfury every 3.5 seconds (20% chance to WF every hit). Keep that in mind. Now lets say you have2 2.6 speed weapons. You now have 2 chances to hit, 2 chances to crit, 2 chances to windfury (now with a 38% (I think could be 36%) chance to windfury).
With all of the above info in mind lets compare the weapon choices based on the best weapons of the 49 bracket.
2h:
Princess Theradras' Scepter
Speed: 3.4
Hit: 126 - 190
DPS: 46.5
Equip: Nifty armor reducer, but I'm going to ignore all stats on weapons for this post just to make things simple. Stick to the basic mechanics
Ok, lets dive into it now. With the given info you can only proc windfury every 3.4 seconds with that weapon (20% chance) just as I have mentioned above. What I have not gone in depth about though is the crit. Crits are extremely just because they activate buffs that buff you and your party members. Lets say you have 14% crit chance (pulled a number out of my *** again), you have a 14% chance to crit every 3.4 seconds activating Flurry, Shamanistic Focus, and the buff that increases you and your party members AP by 10% (forgot the name, don't flame). These buffs are great for shammys who use earth shock every time it cools down (every shaman) because it reduces the mana used by shock spells by 60%. Furthermore, these buffs are fantastic because when dishing out damage in the BGs, having increased AP and increased wep speed is a Godsend. Also, what if you miss? That is 3.4 seconds you aren't proccing windfury which is deadly considering a rogue with 5 energy can eat you alive in that ammount of time.
Moving on.
DW:
(remember, I'm grabbing 2 of the best weapons that increase the proc of WF and all that crap so flame if you would rather imbue with flametongue or something dumb like that)
Bonesnapper
Binds when equipped
Main Hand Mace
66 - 124 Damage Speed 2.70
(35.2 damage per second)
Smashing Star
Binds when equipped
One-Hand Mace
62 - 115 Damage Speed 2.80
(31.6 damage per second)
<Random enchantment>
With these two weapons, you have 38%(maybe 36%) chance of proccing windfury every 2.8 seconds. You also have a 28%(2*14% assuming you have a 14% chit chance) chance of critting (per 2.8 seconds, not single swing. Don't misunderstand), and activating your Godmode buffs. And if you miss..No big deal, you have another hit to crit or proc Windfury.
Yes 2H weapons will give you a greater burst WHITE damage but that is less than optimal considering white damage is less than 45% of your total damage. DW, IMO, is the best because of consistent damage, more chances to proc windfury and more chances to crit.
Lets say you have a 2h wep that has the speed of 3.5 (pulling the number out of my ***). This of course means that you will hit every 3.5 seconds, meaning you have 1 chance to crit and one chance to windfury every 3.5 seconds (20% chance to WF every hit). Keep that in mind. Now lets say you have2 2.6 speed weapons. You now have 2 chances to hit, 2 chances to crit, 2 chances to windfury (now with a 38% (I think could be 36%) chance to windfury).
With all of the above info in mind lets compare the weapon choices based on the best weapons of the 49 bracket.
2h:
Princess Theradras' Scepter
Speed: 3.4
Hit: 126 - 190
DPS: 46.5
Equip: Nifty armor reducer, but I'm going to ignore all stats on weapons for this post just to make things simple. Stick to the basic mechanics
Ok, lets dive into it now. With the given info you can only proc windfury every 3.4 seconds with that weapon (20% chance) just as I have mentioned above. What I have not gone in depth about though is the crit. Crits are extremely just because they activate buffs that buff you and your party members. Lets say you have 14% crit chance (pulled a number out of my *** again), you have a 14% chance to crit every 3.4 seconds activating Flurry, Shamanistic Focus, and the buff that increases you and your party members AP by 10% (forgot the name, don't flame). These buffs are great for shammys who use earth shock every time it cools down (every shaman) because it reduces the mana used by shock spells by 60%. Furthermore, these buffs are fantastic because when dishing out damage in the BGs, having increased AP and increased wep speed is a Godsend. Also, what if you miss? That is 3.4 seconds you aren't proccing windfury which is deadly considering a rogue with 5 energy can eat you alive in that ammount of time.
Moving on.
DW:
(remember, I'm grabbing 2 of the best weapons that increase the proc of WF and all that crap so flame if you would rather imbue with flametongue or something dumb like that)
Bonesnapper
Binds when equipped
Main Hand Mace
66 - 124 Damage Speed 2.70
(35.2 damage per second)
Smashing Star
Binds when equipped
One-Hand Mace
62 - 115 Damage Speed 2.80
(31.6 damage per second)
<Random enchantment>
With these two weapons, you have 38%(maybe 36%) chance of proccing windfury every 2.8 seconds. You also have a 28%(2*14% assuming you have a 14% chit chance) chance of critting (per 2.8 seconds, not single swing. Don't misunderstand), and activating your Godmode buffs. And if you miss..No big deal, you have another hit to crit or proc Windfury.
Yes 2H weapons will give you a greater burst WHITE damage but that is less than optimal considering white damage is less than 45% of your total damage. DW, IMO, is the best because of consistent damage, more chances to proc windfury and more chances to crit.
gpyfb wrote:
It really boils down to which "gamble" you want to bank on. While the effectiveness of maximizing burst dmg is a focus, the % of how much you want to rely on it, is the gamble.
Well, there is somewhat of a gamble with the chance to miss that is built in to DW; while it may seem more subtle, it's still there.
gpyfb wrote:
I tend to average a 700-900 ish for a WF proc and 1.5k per WF crit per MH (obviously less for OH), not as "high" a proc as a 2h does, but factor in that it was just for ONE hand, and the 2nd hand still has a chance to hit, it kinda levels out per attack turn.
I really hope you don't put WF on both weapons.
gpyfb's Siggy wrote:
60 Orc Shaman
The game has changed since BC. When you factor in resilience, even a good WF crit won't turn out too much damage against someone sport glad gear, not mentioning someone in S2/almost full S3.
To be honest, I don't think enhance is the way to go for PvP...of course, there is no resilience for the 49 bracket...save some enchants and perhaps Elixir of Ironskin (is there a higher level requirement for this? I haven't checked). Considering that, enhance might not be too shabby...but still, we don't have any way of "closing the gap" on the opponent, especially Mages or Hunters: Earthbind, Frostshock, and Frostbrand are not CC, they are simply snares, which are not nearly as effective as a Mage's or Hunter's tools to get out of range.
Edited, Nov 28th 2007 2:57pm by GWynand
Edited, Nov 28th 2007 3:02pm by GWynand
Quote:
Yes 2H weapons will give you a greater burst WHITE damage but that is less than optimal considering white damage is less than 45% of your total damage. DW, IMO, is the best because of consistent damage, more chances to proc windfury and more chances to crit.
your doing a good job with the calculations but Pvp is not where you want consistencey, burst damage will always be king in pvp. Enh shamans are not the only players who use 2h over DW, Warriors who BG tend to be arms (or fury which ever is the spec for 2h). I'm not anywhere near as educated on enhancement as i am on elemental but WF will always be a gamble, which is why i did not like enhancement. But you only have a 50% more chance to prot Wf on a 1h which would = about the same as a white melee on a hefty 2h, if that 2h prots WF you just 1 shotted a priest, mage etc...
but don't take my exact word for it... wait for sunoarer to post here... he must be on vacation.
Quote:
I really hope you don't put WF on both weapons.
why not put it on both weaps? would rock bitter be better or something?
also i have seen NO enhancement shamans since the 49 bracket and resiliance is prob the cause of this, eventually you will get bored of pwning noobs and want to lvl your shaman, when you get to higher lvls may i suggest going elemental for pvp? or resto even? healers much appreciated in WSG, AV and EotS.
Scholar
20 posts
Quote:
But you only have a 50% more chance to prot Wf on a 1h which would = about the same as a white melee on a hefty 2h, if that 2h prots WF you just 1 shotted a priest, mage etc...
No offense, but show me one level 60 shaman that can WHITE crit for 1.5k AND have one swing left. 1.5 is achievable with 1h + WF proc if the hit and both windfurys crit for 500 just for reference.
To each his own I suppose. I have tried 2H and didn't like it because of the sluggish nature with little more DPS. I personally prefer to have the extra chance to crit and proc windfury. When WF procs (which is very often) I can one shot squishys all day.
There is an internal cooldown on Windfury's proc rate. I don't remember it off the top of my head. This is why Windfury on both weapons of a DWer means that there is actually potential lost DPS.
2H weapons have a 5% miss chance. DW has a 24% miss chance.
The weapon damage of the offhander is reduced to about... 50%?
Burst damage allows less reaction time, to heal the health bar or such.
Duel-wielding is only with sustained damage, and in BGs and Arenas where everyone is moving around all the time, possibly or probably trying kite tactics (kiting is arguably the safest way to take down an enemy enhancement shaman, due to their lack of significant CC and Anti-CC), melee sustained damage doesn't exist- you're constantly chasing that target around, and attacks aren't hitting all the time. (DoTs and Bleed Effects are examples of sustained damage working in PvP).
Yes, you can wear mail armor at level 40.
2H weapons have a 5% miss chance. DW has a 24% miss chance.
The weapon damage of the offhander is reduced to about... 50%?
Burst damage allows less reaction time, to heal the health bar or such.
Duel-wielding is only with sustained damage, and in BGs and Arenas where everyone is moving around all the time, possibly or probably trying kite tactics (kiting is arguably the safest way to take down an enemy enhancement shaman, due to their lack of significant CC and Anti-CC), melee sustained damage doesn't exist- you're constantly chasing that target around, and attacks aren't hitting all the time. (DoTs and Bleed Effects are examples of sustained damage working in PvP).
Yes, you can wear mail armor at level 40.
Quote:
I really hope you don't put WF on both weapons.
Why the HELL not!? I don't even want to ask what you think is "preferable", but I've LOVE to compare notes on what you "think" is a preferable OH buff, on 2 1h weapons with delays of 2.60. Extensive tests and conclusive results have been done regarding DW WF (as well as other buffs) years ago. Unless you can show me dps charts and shamulator stats that prove otherwise to elitesjerks and myself, I call trolling shinanigens otherwise on you.
Quote:
60 Orc Shaman
I don't really give a rip about updating little details like that....I'm a 70 and have been a 70 since 1 week after the TBC release. Not to mention I don't know what sig your looking at for me, I'm not a orc (nothing wrong with them :P), but I'm a Tauren :-). Course from you previous comment about DW weapon buffs, I argue your "current" knowledge regarding shaman enh dps.
Quote:
To be honest, I don't think enhance is the way to go for PvP
Thats about the only relevant comment you mentioned. Course, given the "twink" bracket, Enh is "ok". Personally pre-40, I might go elem if I had to do it all over again, but thats a presonal preferance. I'd advocate even Resto, but only after you can acquire Earth Shield, but that requires a complete change of PvP game play...which most Sham's coming from a dps backgroud won't adapt too quickly.
Problem with enh is not just the fact we lack tools to "close" the gap, but we lack counter tools to brust thru other classes abilities that are trying to stop us "closing the gap". Best thing we got is trying to use ghost wolf "offensively", which has been my little "trick". Its easier to "sneak up" on targets as a half phased out low profile "dog", than a 12 foot tall Tauren. Even @ 70 I prefer to charge in with ghost wolf, rather than jumping off my mount (granted my Outfitter mod automatically equips my riding crop when I mount up, and can't unequip my riding crop when I dismount IF I'm in combat), its hard to "sneak up" on the back of a Kodo :P
OK, I feel like a total assmunch.
I was looking at the wrong bloody siggy...someone posted while I was editing mine. GG GWynand, well done. -_-
There is an internal cooldown on Windfury's proc rate. I don't remember it off the top of my head. This is why Windfury on both weapons of a DWer means that there is actually potential lost DPS.
That's why...
Umm, if Shamulator tests have DW with WF on the MH and WF on the OH as being higher dps, then ok, I'm wrong. Show me these tests and the math/reasoning behind the results, and I will bow to your correctness (no sarcasm intended, really).
Things have changed in recent patches; most notable of these changes being the 3 second internalised WF cooldown.
The internal CD on WF means that if you have it on both the MH and the OH, then you're gimping it the DPS. Because the OH does less damage, you'd much rather have a MH-WF proc than one on your OH. Having it on both justs lessens the overall potential for burst damage in PvP. And when you're being kited around, which I'm sure you've experienced many, many times, you'd probably rather have one solid crit than 1 decent one and a regular white hit from your OH.
If you can prove me wrong, go for it. I really don't mind being wrong; I'm just pretty sure I'm right in this instance.
Also, I don't see why you had to be so biting. Some of my comments were (d'oh) wrong, but still. "That's about the only relevant comment you made"...thanks, I appreciate the sentiment.
Edited, Nov 29th 2007 12:28am by GWynand
I was looking at the wrong bloody siggy...someone posted while I was editing mine. GG GWynand, well done. -_-
Raglu wrote:
There is an internal cooldown on Windfury's proc rate. I don't remember it off the top of my head. This is why Windfury on both weapons of a DWer means that there is actually potential lost DPS.
That's why...
Umm, if Shamulator tests have DW with WF on the MH and WF on the OH as being higher dps, then ok, I'm wrong. Show me these tests and the math/reasoning behind the results, and I will bow to your correctness (no sarcasm intended, really).
gpyfb wrote:
Extensive tests and conclusive results have been done regarding DW WF (as well as other buffs) years ago.
Things have changed in recent patches; most notable of these changes being the 3 second internalised WF cooldown.
The internal CD on WF means that if you have it on both the MH and the OH, then you're gimping it the DPS. Because the OH does less damage, you'd much rather have a MH-WF proc than one on your OH. Having it on both justs lessens the overall potential for burst damage in PvP. And when you're being kited around, which I'm sure you've experienced many, many times, you'd probably rather have one solid crit than 1 decent one and a regular white hit from your OH.
If you can prove me wrong, go for it. I really don't mind being wrong; I'm just pretty sure I'm right in this instance.
Also, I don't see why you had to be so biting. Some of my comments were (d'oh) wrong, but still. "That's about the only relevant comment you made"...thanks, I appreciate the sentiment.
Edited, Nov 29th 2007 12:28am by GWynand
Quote:
Raglu wrote:
There is an internal cooldown on Windfury's proc rate. I don't remember it off the top of my head. This is why Windfury on both weapons of a DWer means that there is actually potential lost DPS.
That's why...
Umm, if Shamulator tests have DW with WF on the MH and WF on the OH as being higher dps, then ok, I'm wrong. Show me these tests and the math/reasoning behind the results, and I will bow to your correctness (no sarcasm intended, really).
There is an internal cooldown on Windfury's proc rate. I don't remember it off the top of my head. This is why Windfury on both weapons of a DWer means that there is actually potential lost DPS.
That's why...
Umm, if Shamulator tests have DW with WF on the MH and WF on the OH as being higher dps, then ok, I'm wrong. Show me these tests and the math/reasoning behind the results, and I will bow to your correctness (no sarcasm intended, really).
Actually the Test and Shamulator is based on DW WF, matter of fact is even calculates for proc's per OH and weapon combinations, speeds, MH and OH amounts. This being said, its been proven a while ago (post tbc release, and even post OH downrank "fix") that WF on BOTH hands far surpasses any other combination of weapon buffs. Granted this is also based on the stipulation that both MH and OH weapons are "slow", as a "fast" weapon will "steal" procs and overall gimp dps. Download Shamulator and find out for yourself, also check out the reviews and test results from elitestjerks.com if your really diggin for more #'s. Granted this info is rather dated now, and has been concidered enh shaman common knowledge for awhile now.
Quote:
Also, I don't see why you had to be so biting. Some of my comments were (d'oh) wrong, but still. "That's about the only relevant comment you made"...thanks, I appreciate the sentiment.
I'm always grumpy :) Its part of my charm...read sig for referance lol
...and your welcome :)
Scholar
20 posts
Quote:
There is an internal cooldown on Windfury's proc rate. I don't remember it off the top of my head. This is why Windfury on both weapons of a DWer means that there is actually potential lost DPS.
Wrong. If you have 2.6 or slower weapons then you give WF a chance to cool down (3 second hidden cool down). Putting WF on both increases the chance to proc like I mentioned several times. Potentially, you have 38% chance to proc WF every swing.
Thanks for all the answers guys.. but i think a few things sliped by some of you. Keep in mind that I'm looking at the 49 bracket. I know DW is pretty leet at lvl 70.. but I will not have any (save a BG trink i can get) +hit at the level. I know what that was like on my war when I went DW fury pretty early on (the Dragon's Call dropped in ST.. couldn't let it go to waste).
So if anyone else feels the need to add to the 2h/DW war going on in here think about what would be better on a lvl 49 in BGs... :)
So if anyone else feels the need to add to the 2h/DW war going on in here think about what would be better on a lvl 49 in BGs... :)
"Techincally" speaking you "could" DW @ 49, and dispite the % miss rate that comes with DWing, its "not that bad" even without the +hit rate. Thankfully due to the mechanics of PvP, things like skill rate/hit rate are normalized to a degree...so that lends a hand to hit rate to a degree. Even when I PvP, my hit rate isn't above 35 (sometimes +55ish with food), when DWing...works fine to me (Rogue's w/ Dodge up can be a pain...like thats a surprize >.>)
Granted, I've never twinked my sham in the 49's, and even when I was in the 40's way back when...DW wasn't a option. This being said, you "could" DW, but I haven't looked if its possible to find 2 1h weapons at that lvl bracket that can produce "acceptable" (High top end base dmg and a delay of 2.50ish or slower) DW PvP dmg, which would me a more limiting factor than the lack of hit rate.
Matter of preferance I suppose...might take more research to twink a DWing Enh in the 49's...but it "might" be possible, if thats your fix.
Granted, I've never twinked my sham in the 49's, and even when I was in the 40's way back when...DW wasn't a option. This being said, you "could" DW, but I haven't looked if its possible to find 2 1h weapons at that lvl bracket that can produce "acceptable" (High top end base dmg and a delay of 2.50ish or slower) DW PvP dmg, which would me a more limiting factor than the lack of hit rate.
Matter of preferance I suppose...might take more research to twink a DWing Enh in the 49's...but it "might" be possible, if thats your fix.
It's actually really not what I want to do. Having played a war I'd much rather 2h it up. But I wasn't sure if DW on a sham was alot better then DW on a war at that lvl. But after talking with some friends and guildies and reading stuff I think I'm going to go with the 2h mace from mara. I may pick up the best DWs i can find in the process just to have and then I can respec and check it out. Another thing is the 4 points I needs for DW and DW spec would be nice to put in some healing/totems.
12 posts
2h all the way in pvp. im enh at 70 and you can do ridiculous burst dmg. it's easier to close the gap on most classes than you think. i LOVE fighting mages. they are by far the easiest kill for me. every once in a while i'll get a 2x WF crit each for about 1500+ along with the white dmg that kicked it off. so what if you miss once. if you DW you'll miss lots too. the point is, when you hit, you want to hit as hard as you can. oh and WF procs quite often with the 2h, so im not sure what the confusion is about.
my gear isn't great, and my 2h is green, and I've still seen a WF crit for 2000 (after buffs). Enh is effective in BG. Don't believe the negativity.
my gear isn't great, and my 2h is green, and I've still seen a WF crit for 2000 (after buffs). Enh is effective in BG. Don't believe the negativity.
Raglu wrote:
2H weapons have a 5% miss chance. DW has a 24% miss chance.
The weapon damage of the offhander is reduced to about... 50%?
Burst damage allows less reaction time, to heal the health bar or such.
Duel-wielding is only with sustained damage, and in BGs and Arenas where everyone is moving around all the time, possibly or probably trying kite tactics (kiting is arguably the safest way to take down an enemy enhancement shaman, due to their lack of significant CC and Anti-CC), melee sustained damage doesn't exist- you're constantly chasing that target around, and attacks aren't hitting all the time. (DoTs and Bleed Effects are examples of sustained damage working in PvP).
Yes, you can wear mail armor at level 40.
The weapon damage of the offhander is reduced to about... 50%?
Burst damage allows less reaction time, to heal the health bar or such.
Duel-wielding is only with sustained damage, and in BGs and Arenas where everyone is moving around all the time, possibly or probably trying kite tactics (kiting is arguably the safest way to take down an enemy enhancement shaman, due to their lack of significant CC and Anti-CC), melee sustained damage doesn't exist- you're constantly chasing that target around, and attacks aren't hitting all the time. (DoTs and Bleed Effects are examples of sustained damage working in PvP).
Yes, you can wear mail armor at level 40.
Absolutely correct.
PVP the only time you're gonna find someone standing still is a Prot Pally/Warrior who is (if they're doing they're job) distracting you while someone else does something more significant. Burst is King. End of story. No significant class is going to stand there and do anything. All DPS will burst and if they dont kill they will either get distance or get away from you (which if you are Hance they will be able to do.)
You want to be able to come in from the back/side and hit one great hit, follow up with another, and as they beging moving kill them off. This is entirely possible with any good heavy hitter class, and although the weaponspeed is slow this give you much more Damage total on moving targets - as when you finally get in melee range again you get your burst for one hit and then it's likely they'll be out of range again.
Well, in spite of all the research and common knowledge regarding dual wielding, 2h weapons and WF...
I actually preffered DW in the 49 bracket. I had the mace from Mara but it was too inconsistent. I seemed to do a lot better DW. Keep in mind that I have absolutely no evidence to support one being better over the other.
Also I attribute my success in that bracket to my play style. Being in the Alliance, at least in my battlegroup, no one ever killed the healers. So having some fast weapons (the only ones I could get) would wreak havoc on clothies. Regardless of how many times WF it was always fun imagining that priest trying to get a heal off while I was pounding away.
In the end it really comes down to what you like.
I actually preffered DW in the 49 bracket. I had the mace from Mara but it was too inconsistent. I seemed to do a lot better DW. Keep in mind that I have absolutely no evidence to support one being better over the other.
Also I attribute my success in that bracket to my play style. Being in the Alliance, at least in my battlegroup, no one ever killed the healers. So having some fast weapons (the only ones I could get) would wreak havoc on clothies. Regardless of how many times WF it was always fun imagining that priest trying to get a heal off while I was pounding away.
In the end it really comes down to what you like.
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