So my first heroic...Follow

This is what happens when blizzard lowers the rep requirements for the heroics.
More than likely none of you were properly geared for heroic.

Edited, Nov 27th 2007 11:38am by Boganart

Those first Heroics are always amusing. My first was CoT: Durnholde. I'm no slouch, and everyone else in the group were Heroic veterans, but we still got murdered by the unCCable pats and their spawns.

If you're in Heroics for Badges, just queue up Mechanar or Slave Pens. Almost no point to doing any other Heroics for Badges, they're so difficult.

Sounds like gear issues more than anything else.

I haven't had too many problems with trap resists in Heroic Ramparts. After a run or two, you learn which mobs are immune to CC (not that many of them are). The dogs are prime candidates for trapping because, even though they're non-elite, they hit like trucks and run very fast.

A lot of Heroic Ramparts is timing pulls around pats. What that often seems to do is make a group impatient and consequently a little sloppy. With a lot of the mobs (the Destroyers come to mind), if you find yourself having to Wing Clip, you're in very serious trouble. (Especially if your healer's gear isn't up to snuff). There are a couple of tricky 5-pulls but for the most part it's not all that bad.

The biggest difference I've found between Heroics and their easier level 70 counterparts is that the margin for error is much less. If everything is done right and your gear is up to par (along with everyone else in your party), you can run Heroic Ramparts and forget halfway through that it's Heroic. It's important to be dynamic in Heroic dungeons, because even though the "ideal" scenario is to do everything right, that's hardly a realistic goal. Both you and everyone else in your party has to be able to adapt to situations on the fly or things can get out of control. Also, I've seen groups in non-heroic dungeons settle on one strategy, watch that strategy fail repeatedly, and refuse to adjust it. Then they give up. It's even worse when that happens in Heroics. Try something...watch what happens throughout the attempt...and then if it doesn't work, adjust for the next go.

Heroics are tough, especially the first few times you run them. I think a lot of it is nerves...you know it's going to be tough and that puts a lot of people into panic mode even before the first pull. Give yourself a break. Difficult as they can seem, they're also a hell of a lot of fun.

Good luck with your next run :D

Ummm... it doesnt.

Thus why when I was MM I spent a couple points in SV to get the lowered trap CD and resist rate. Trust me, it is worth it.

Heroics require a mindset that you're ok with wiping. If wiping frustrates you, you're not going to have a good time, and your performance will often deteriorate. To me, that's rule #1. Learn to laugh off the wipes and learn from them. As you already know, one little mistake can spell doom (unless everyone in your group is really on their toes and can adjust).

Of course, you should be geared for heroic runs - as should your whole party be. Gear requirements aren't dissimilar to early kara. Get out of almost all your greens. Preferably you'll be in mostly dungeon blues with maybe a PvP epic or 2 off-piece. Everything should be enchanted with an enchant proper for your class/spec. And everyone must be properly gemmed.

If your tank was having a hard time staying alive, it could be a healer problem, or his gear, or both. If the tank's HP isn't at least 12K unbuffed, and defense rating 490 or higher, he's going to get killed a lot, and that means certain wiping.

Gear won't help in trap resists (speccing far enough into SV will, but that's a personal choice and SV is very gear dependant). But having 2 pieces of Beast Lord armor will help your CD on traps, so you can drop another trap quicker to catch that heartbeat resisting mob faster (unless it's completely unnCCable, which requires a different strategy).

The first few heroic runs are always tough unless you're with a veteran group. Don't sweat it too much, and focus on Mech, SP, or UB until you get a piece or 2 of badge/heroic epics.


Edited to add:

And everyone should also be self-buffing as well as group buffing. Brings lots of buff food (ravager dogs or warp burgers/mudfish in your case) and some elixirs. It may seem expensive, but it really helps.




Edited, Nov 27th 2007 2:43pm by Steelray

I am ok with wiping, I am not ok with making mistakes and I am sure I would make plenty due to simple fact that it scares me.

I dont think my gear is a problem, not even on my blued out hunter least my half-purpled lock. And using consumables is normal for me even when farming stuff.

I wish getting enough confidence and getting over the fear of failing would be as easy as getting *proper* gear :(

Fisrt off, take a moment when you get a chance to read this post.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=21;mid=1195944877269484079;page=1#m1195944877269484079

Secondly, heroics are supposed to be harder. Obviously. So yes, you should be better geared before making attempts at heroics,,, especially if you haven't even done the instance on the regular setting.

Ramps can suck if the pulls get screwed up and I mean, in a hurry too. With the party, well geared and skilled it can still be a little challenging. No need to rush into heroics. That run can be a tough job for trapping and ya definately gotta be on your toes.

Well, for a Paladin and Druid tank the specc definitely is important of course, since the other speccs have completely different uses. This goes without saying. But for a Warrior, Protection specc isn't actually mandatory. It helps alot, but isn't mandatory. The Warrior I play with the most is a guildie, and he specced Arms for PvP viability several months back. Still, he is well geared for tanking and really knows his stuff since he's been playing his Warrior pretty much since release.

And I have yet to find a better Heroic tank than him. He is quite simply the best I know of, even compared to the Black Temple tanks I know on my server. (Not many of those. The server is in something of a rut these days) So skill actually overrules specc for Warriors tanking outside of raids. Still, the gear requirement is not something you can shirk on. Unless you can tank Karazhan, you shouldn't be tanking Heroics either to be honest.

That's the problem with alot of classes these days. They get to 70 with no real experience with their main task in a group. Let's say Tanking for a Warrior. They go get their questreward gear, and specc Protection. Oh! Tanking is kind of easy, isn't it? Except that the specc is the reason it get's easy. The Warrior will be using Protection as a crutch while tanking in instances, not truly increasing his skill at tanking. And thus, he will become a liability later on when he needs both the skill and the specc.

The same goes for other classes. I know of Druids who level as Feral and refuses to heal in instances. Then they specc Resto and use the talent tree as a crutch to support them instead of skill at healing/mana conservation and so on. A Druid I leveled to 70 with, leveled as Feral but did nothing but heal in instances. Now at 70 and with a Resto specc he is just an insane healer. He heals as if he was still bound by the limitations of Feral, and the Resto talents is merely a bonus on top of his skill, making him a far better healer than those who didn't heal before they specced Resto.

Hmm... this went off on a tangent. I suppose I just felt like rambling a bit. Just go on, and ignore this if you want. It was probably just some random thoughts.

I typed something really long then realised it was all offtopic. To shorten, I agree with you North, but its good to make things as simple as possible if you don't have the experience, using gear and spec as aids if need be. Everyone has to learn sometime, and good players will get there eventually, even if they start at 70. At least then they'll have all the cards in front of them; Misdirection, traps, aggro management et all. I'm still getting used to the fact that we now have a dispel and a Mortal Strike, hehe. Being able to use all the tools a class has at it's disposal is a good skill to have for heroic dungeons.

Why do so many people dont do heroic's due to confidence? If you think your ready, and are geared ready go for it, its just a game, nothing will come of any harm to you if you try...

The least you'll get if you fail is a big repair bill, nothing much..

Just dont be a bloody wuss and try it, lots to gain nothing to lose!

I agree with Sethy, but it's not about confidence Reccyuk.

If you are a responsible player, you have a duty to the team you are supposedly going to support. If you aren't properly skilled or geared, you CREATE wipes that didn't have to happen.

I keep seeing all this stuff about gear being first, that's just not true. A highly skilled person can be wearing inferior gear and still perform to the same level (or better) of an average skilled player in the right gear. I've witnessed this and been very impressed. Skill is the primary requirement in my mind for the end game.

If you feel you're as good as you're ever going to get, then gear should become your focus. Obviously you can work on skill and gear at the same time, like I am currently doing. Sadly, the gear is easier to get than the skill.

I still have much to learn... not "Time for me to leave" yet... oi!

Like I said, they aren't mutually exclusive concepts, and at extreme positions like Tank or Healer, gear becomes almost as important at skill. I'm speaking more from the Hunter side of things here. If you can't develop a good shot rotation, can't CC correctly or can't kite correctly, you could be in full T6 and accomplish NOTHING for the group but wipes.

Hunters are a skill driven class. There is skill to other classes as well, but Hunter is among the toughest. For hunters, skill will get you further than gear IMO. I stand by what I said, a highly skilled hunter can do as good or better in lesser gear than an average hunter in 'fully qualified' gear.

Since skill is hard to determine, I can see why the focus is on gear, that's pretty black and white, and you won't find out if you have a Huntard in Hunters clothing until you try them out. However, I'm just pointing out that I'd prefer skill over gear as gear is easier to get than skill and skill can save wipes.

You've gotten pretty much the rest of your post replied to, so I'll take this.

Your method is fair. But it looks like an "outdoor" kiting method. In Instances there is one huge advantage: The mobs will never break off pursuit.

And most of the Instances are very linear.

So when I've got to kite, I've got a Frost Trap set, pull my kite target with Conc, and run to the zone with Cheetah Aspect. You can snap shot off more Conc, but I don't bother to try to do more damage. That just takes time and doesn't have much impact on the mobs Health. If you get to the zone, FD. If the cooldown is up, drop a Snake Trap (Snake Trap takes time to chew through for mobs, as well as occasionally inflicting a slowing effect). If the group still isn't ready for your mob, you've got a poor group, but you can still run after it and re-aggro it once it nears the group and start pulling it to the zone again.

If you're BM and the mob closes Intimidate can let you regain range, as well as Wing Clip. If you use Intimidate, your Pet will be killed once you FD, so try not to need it :) But a dead Pet is better than a dead Hunter and no Pet anyway.



Edited, Nov 29th 2007 5:39am by Kompera