Well, I'm a Retribution Paladin, and I love it. We all know that it works for soloing, but what about groups? Would a group be willing to use a DPS slot for a Ret. Pally? I came up with a build that I believe focuses on being DPS in a group.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?5500000000000000000050300000000000000000005023035102033125031031
Obviously this focuses on doing as much damage as I can, without much defense.
First off, I took Imp. BoM for myself and others in the group to increase mele damage output. Followed that with Imp. SotC for a debuff to add 3% crit. chance to the target and increase my holy damage on it. Vindication is another debuff I thought would work well in a group.Seal of Command of course. Crusade + 2H weapon spec + imp. Sanctity Arua + 3 stack vengence = 26% more damage (Not to mention the 10% holy damage bonus Sanc. Aura gives to me and the group). Also, I'd like to mention that the 2% bonus to damage isn't bad for a party buff. To get as much damage as I could, I skipped the mana reduction and replenishment talents like benediction and Sanc. Judgement. Also I did not take Spiritual Focus in the Holy tree as this build is geared towards having a healer already in the group. I also went for Precision in the Prot tree because I figure 3% more hit means 3% more chance for dmg. Lastly, devine intellect in the Holy tree for more spell dmg and healing when I need it (Main focus on Cursader Strike) Tell me what you think.
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For the love of all that is Holy, max out Fanaticism.
Ok, now that I got that off my chest: I believe the only builds that take Imp BoM are healer builds aiming for max raid buffing (run Salvation if you need it, and if not, Wisdom, not Might). Throw it our for Benediction. Get the 2 points for Fanaticism from Divine Strength, and take the final 3 from Divine Strength and put them in Sanctified Judgement. Maybe Tommyguns or another Ret can back me up, or correct me if I did something stupid ;), but that is what I'd do if it were my build.
Ok, now that I got that off my chest: I believe the only builds that take Imp BoM are healer builds aiming for max raid buffing (run Salvation if you need it, and if not, Wisdom, not Might). Throw it our for Benediction. Get the 2 points for Fanaticism from Divine Strength, and take the final 3 from Divine Strength and put them in Sanctified Judgement. Maybe Tommyguns or another Ret can back me up, or correct me if I did something stupid ;), but that is what I'd do if it were my build.
Keep in mind also that an upcoming patch is changing CS so that it benefits from weapon damage rather than holy damage.
what Mauglak said. except where he said Divine Strength, put in Divine Int. 10% Int as ret doesn't add up. 10% Strength on the other hand is beautiful, esp with the new 2.3.2 CS.
4 posts
So in another patch, Divine Intellect would not help my CS damage? Indeed, I did not take into consideration just how important threat reduction from Fanaticism is, as well as just how good it'd work with Blessing of Salvation.
As I'm learning, the mana really is important for sustained DPS, so I have a dilemma between Divine STR and Divine INT: Would it make more sense to have more mana for sustaided DPS or AP for initial DPS?
But the advice into benediction and Sanc. Judgement is well taken, I should make that change as soon as I can.
As I'm learning, the mana really is important for sustained DPS, so I have a dilemma between Divine STR and Divine INT: Would it make more sense to have more mana for sustaided DPS or AP for initial DPS?
But the advice into benediction and Sanc. Judgement is well taken, I should make that change as soon as I can.
Scholar
27 posts
It's important what you want to do with your paladin. Do you group mostly for instances or do you raid too. Do you like pvp?
As raider I'd go with This spec.
It gives you +hit rating and focusses on damage output and mana preservation.
If you instance and solo more you can take the points from protection and put them in holy. Like this
If you save up some healing gear you can heal the instance for your friends if there is no healer available. You wont be completely amazing, but you should be able to heal through a normal instance without much hassle. When soloing you can get a heal of in fights without being pushed back a dozen times.
If you pvp more then there are several specs possible. Most look a lot like the above spec, but have talents like Eye for an Eye, Persuit of Justice. As extra you could pick up Divine Purpose, Improved Righteous Fury and Blessing of Kings.
Divine Intellect buffed just your intellect, never your spelldamage so CS never did benefit from it. Having more threat reduce means that you could try DPSing without salv and use might instead when you have a good tank.
This patch Sanc Judgement is getting buffed from 50% to 80% mana return which makes benediction less useful because you get 80% of your seal back anyway. Other then your seal the 2 other mana eaters are your CS (which eats more mana now with the shorter CD) and your judgement. The Judgement is the only other spell affected by benediction so you are kinda spending 5 points for a 15% mana reduce on judgement only. As ret paladins dont have much MP5 (if any) and no use of spirit due to constant casting a healthy mana-pool is always nice so you might want to consider dropping benediction for intellect or one of the 'pvp talents' if you pvp much.
Edited, Nov 27th 2007 5:55pm by Desperadoo
As raider I'd go with This spec.
It gives you +hit rating and focusses on damage output and mana preservation.
If you instance and solo more you can take the points from protection and put them in holy. Like this
If you save up some healing gear you can heal the instance for your friends if there is no healer available. You wont be completely amazing, but you should be able to heal through a normal instance without much hassle. When soloing you can get a heal of in fights without being pushed back a dozen times.
If you pvp more then there are several specs possible. Most look a lot like the above spec, but have talents like Eye for an Eye, Persuit of Justice. As extra you could pick up Divine Purpose, Improved Righteous Fury and Blessing of Kings.
Quote:
So in another patch, Divine Intellect would not help my CS damage? Indeed, I did not take into consideration just how important threat reduction from Fanaticism is, as well as just how good it'd work with Blessing of Salvation.
As I'm learning, the mana really is important for sustained DPS, so I have a dilemma between Divine STR and Divine INT: Would it make more sense to have more mana for sustaided DPS or AP for initial DPS?
But the advice into benediction and Sanc. Judgement is well taken, I should make that change as soon as I can.
As I'm learning, the mana really is important for sustained DPS, so I have a dilemma between Divine STR and Divine INT: Would it make more sense to have more mana for sustaided DPS or AP for initial DPS?
But the advice into benediction and Sanc. Judgement is well taken, I should make that change as soon as I can.
Divine Intellect buffed just your intellect, never your spelldamage so CS never did benefit from it. Having more threat reduce means that you could try DPSing without salv and use might instead when you have a good tank.
This patch Sanc Judgement is getting buffed from 50% to 80% mana return which makes benediction less useful because you get 80% of your seal back anyway. Other then your seal the 2 other mana eaters are your CS (which eats more mana now with the shorter CD) and your judgement. The Judgement is the only other spell affected by benediction so you are kinda spending 5 points for a 15% mana reduce on judgement only. As ret paladins dont have much MP5 (if any) and no use of spirit due to constant casting a healthy mana-pool is always nice so you might want to consider dropping benediction for intellect or one of the 'pvp talents' if you pvp much.
Edited, Nov 27th 2007 5:55pm by Desperadoo
Quote:
So in another patch, Divine Intellect would not help my CS damage? Indeed, I did not take into consideration just how important threat reduction from Fanaticism is, as well as just how good it'd work with Blessing of Salvation.
As I'm learning, the mana really is important for sustained DPS, so I have a dilemma between Divine STR and Divine INT: Would it make more sense to have more mana for sustaided DPS or AP for initial DPS?
As I'm learning, the mana really is important for sustained DPS, so I have a dilemma between Divine STR and Divine INT: Would it make more sense to have more mana for sustaided DPS or AP for initial DPS?
The way ret appears to be headed, based on the changes coming to CS, is more towards a Warrior-esque build based much more on AP and Crit than on mana and spelldmg.
I would go with:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?5000000000000000000050300000000000000000005023035100033125331051
I left 2 points out, you can put them wherever you want.
Basically what you do is take all of the talents that will increase your damage. Don't skimp on stuff like fanaticism, you need damage anywhere you can get it.
You go into the prot tree for the +hit, and take divine strength from holy for the extra str. I took sanctified judgement as well, with the upcoming buff, it should be a nice mana saver.
Going oom isn't as much of an issue in a group as you might think.
If you were interested in pvp as well, I'd probably suggest something else.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?5000000000000000000050300000000000000000005023035100033125331051
I left 2 points out, you can put them wherever you want.
Basically what you do is take all of the talents that will increase your damage. Don't skimp on stuff like fanaticism, you need damage anywhere you can get it.
You go into the prot tree for the +hit, and take divine strength from holy for the extra str. I took sanctified judgement as well, with the upcoming buff, it should be a nice mana saver.
Going oom isn't as much of an issue in a group as you might think.
If you were interested in pvp as well, I'd probably suggest something else.
speaking of the changes to Ret and Spell Damage, with the next few changes do you think they will take the spell damage out of the ret pvp gear? it will be all but useless anyway.
now that i think about it. removing the need for spell damage from Rets DPS is a good move, as it will reduce the effectiveness of heals quite a bit. almost making them not even worth casting considering i can only cast like 3 holy lights before im nearly OOM. maybe they can actually buff Ret DPS after these changes without people crying about overpower.
now that i think about it. removing the need for spell damage from Rets DPS is a good move, as it will reduce the effectiveness of heals quite a bit. almost making them not even worth casting considering i can only cast like 3 holy lights before im nearly OOM. maybe they can actually buff Ret DPS after these changes without people crying about overpower.
4 posts
While I'm looking at this, here's another question. Is Vindication something that bosses are immune to? If so would it really be viable for a group/raid Ret Pally?
AFAIK bosses are immune to vindication. Everything I've read says that "Most mobs are immune to vindication" which makes me thing that some out there must not be?
I've never seen a result from it in PvE in instances or grinding.
I've never seen a result from it in PvE in instances or grinding.
The RuenBahamut of Doom wrote:
speaking of the changes to Ret and Spell Damage, with the next few changes do you think they will take the spell damage out of the ret pvp gear? it will be all but useless anyway.
now that i think about it. removing the need for spell damage from Rets DPS is a good move, as it will reduce the effectiveness of heals quite a bit. almost making them not even worth casting considering i can only cast like 3 holy lights before im nearly OOM. maybe they can actually buff Ret DPS after these changes without people crying about overpower.
now that i think about it. removing the need for spell damage from Rets DPS is a good move, as it will reduce the effectiveness of heals quite a bit. almost making them not even worth casting considering i can only cast like 3 holy lights before im nearly OOM. maybe they can actually buff Ret DPS after these changes without people crying about overpower.
We don't get much healing power from spell damage anyway. A top end ret paladin might run around with 200-300ish spell damage.
If we take the high number, that means they get an extra 210 on holy light, and 130 on flash of light. It really makes no difference.
Bah, i guess your right. oh well.
Still, i hope they take off Spell Damage off the ret pvp gear if i cant even use SD for DPS. i wouldnt even been to ask what to put in its place. but anything seems better then a stat Ret will no longer need. but meh.
Still, i hope they take off Spell Damage off the ret pvp gear if i cant even use SD for DPS. i wouldnt even been to ask what to put in its place. but anything seems better then a stat Ret will no longer need. but meh.
overheard: in 2.3.2 all ret pally pvp gear will have +spell dmg replaced with large amounts of +spirit. enjoy.
tommyguns wrote:
overheard: in 2.3.2 all ret pally pvp gear will have +spell dmg replaced with large amounts of +spirit. enjoy.
Lol... It's sad that that would not surprise me at all. Sometimes Blizzard can be downright retarded in managing their own game.
RuenBahamut wrote:
speaking of the changes to Ret and Spell Damage, with the next few changes do you think they will take the spell damage out of the ret pvp gear? it will be all but useless anyway.
If Blizzard is smart, this is what they'll do. I am really, really hoping that they'll treat 2.3's Mental Quickness as a test subject, take a lesson from it, and apply it to Retribtion Paladins in a non-overpowered way.
tommyguns . . you make me cry at night. . .
i'll make you smile then. Heroic Mech, i had to take off after we got to the elevator cuz the lock D/C'd. but i did my job: http://www.geocities.com/tommy0guns/WoWScrnShot_112707_175342.jpg
granted, some of the mobs are demon...so i had some extra punch powa. but i also healed the MT for 3 mobs after the lock got too close while healer was afk. i was also able to keep aggro within a reasonable range. feel free to armory the lock and mage...you'll be surprised.
my take on the whole thing: Ret pally is a GO!
granted, some of the mobs are demon...so i had some extra punch powa. but i also healed the MT for 3 mobs after the lock got too close while healer was afk. i was also able to keep aggro within a reasonable range. feel free to armory the lock and mage...you'll be surprised.
my take on the whole thing: Ret pally is a GO!
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