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Healadin going OOMFollow

#1 Nov 26 2007 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Hi all. I am a lvl 60 Healadin. The issue I seem to running into is running OOM (Out of Mana) while healing instances or raids (Stratholme and ZG). I use mana potions, but seem to go through at least 7-10 of them while running an instance - which is getting expensive.

I always have Blessing of Salvation on myself, and everyone else, except tank. Tank gets Blessing of Light.

I have all the mana saving and crit talents in the Holy tree (i.e. Illumination, Healing Light, Sanctified Light, Holy Power, Holy Guidance, etc...).

My basic healing goes spam Flash of Light to keep people around 95% health (to minimize overhealing), and use Holy Light when person drops below 50%. Cleanse whenever I see a debuff. I use Divine Illumination every time I see that I need to start spamming Holy Light (usually when a DPS starts pulling aggro).

I also use Devo Aura as a base, and switch as needed if we run into casters. This is to try and mitigate damage to party so that I don't have to heal as much.

I do save Divine Favor - just in case I have to bubble and heal myself quickly.

I think that about covers my talents, and how I heal.

Am I doing something wrong? Running OOM all the time is just a bit embarassing, and I'm trying to be a better healer.

One druid told me that a Pally healer always runs out of mana, which is why a priest or druid is better. Is that true (the mana part)?

I never had mana problems in lower level instances, so I'm not 100% sure if I'm doing something wrong or if this is what happens at the higher levels.

Finally (apologies for the long post), I seem to spend about 30-40% of my heals on tank. The rest are on everyone else. Is this normal, or do I need to work with the group on how they manage aggro?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.
#2 Nov 26 2007 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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124 posts
What about using Seal of Wisdom to help you regenerate more mana?

Also, if most of your heals are going to the DPS folks, sounds like they need to manage their aggro better (or your isn't very good at holding the aggro). It's not the healer's fault if the rest of the party can't manage their aggro correctly. If your DPS only occasionally breaks aggro, that happens, but if it's constant, then they need to adjust their tactics.
#3 Nov 26 2007 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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85 posts
Actually, I find that my pally is more mana efficient than my priest. Your build looks fine and your healing behavoir looks okay too. You might try giving yourself BoW instead of Salvation since pally heals already generate less threat. Also, how much max mana, +healing, and mana per 5 secs do you have?
#4 Nov 26 2007 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
Terrorfiend
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time warp? ZG? Srat? People still run those?

Paladins are exceptional healers at 70. At 60 we were cleansebots and complemented heals with FoL spam.

Dont know if much has changed. I havent ran a level 60 instance since well before BC came out.

And id use BoW. very unlikely you will pull aggro.

Edited, Nov 26th 2007 1:20pm by KTurner
#5 Nov 26 2007 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
It's just a jump to the left...


Why are you even doing those instances/raids? LEVEL UP! BC Content is so much better than old world content, so go heal Ramparts or something.

Oh and yeah, use BoW, salv shouldn't be necessary unless your tank sucks. Also, Paladins are the ones who always have mana, which is why we got our Illumination nerfed. Shamans are the ones that are always OOM :P
#6 Nov 26 2007 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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1,859 posts
Paladin is simply *teh* most efficient healer class, as long as you can more or less focus on a single target.

I have slightly lower stats than a Druid and Priest I ran ZA with yesterday. At the end of the Bear fight (First one and only we managed to down >_>) I was still at 20% mana left while they were both OoM. Well, the Druid Innervated himself so I think he had some left, but both screamed "OoM!" near the end of the fight. Not sure if they used a potion or not. Yet, I beat them on the meters. Go figure, maybe I need to double-check their gear.

Anyway, bragging aside, I felt much more efficient. Fight is fairly easy for a Pally since only the two tanks take damage and someone gets charged only so often.

As for the more technical stuff...

I like to keep Conc Aura cause I'm in a caster group anyway. The added armor does not save them from much in raids anyway. Resistance only if needed, otherwise Conc stays up.

I second putting BoW on yourself. Healing is half the threat and Pally Healing is half the half... so a quarter.

Finally, focus on the tank more and let other healers take care of the DPS. A Druid's HoTs or a Priest's will get him back to full health over time. If he gets hit too much, he should withdraw and bandage, lest he fails as a raider.
#7 Nov 26 2007 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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1,599 posts
I've always used BoS for aggro mgt. BoW if there is more than 1 Pally. I'll try BoW though - makes perfect sense. Maybe that will do it. Thanks.

As for running the pre-BC places.....I'm running Strat to get my charger mount. I have to run it over and over because everyone seems to get that stupid quest "Houses of the Holy" that requires 5 Strat Holy Waters. So I'm splitting the loot with everyone else. It sux because it takes forever to get a group, then people bag out after a few hours. Of course, then I get to run Dire Maul and Scholo. Hopefully those will be easier...

ZG - just ran for fun (my first instance raid). It was a lot of fun. However, I don't plan on making a habit out of running pre-BC instance raids.

Trust me, I don't want to be there. I cry at all the time spent there when I could/should be leveling in Hellfire. Maybe I'll just quest in Hellfire for a few levels...that should also get me better +Healing, mana, and MP5 gear.

Finally, I think I will work with people on aggro management more. I would've thought that by lvl 60 they would be good at it. But apparently not... Gets a bit frustrating when I have to constantly heal a squishy, and not the tank.



Edited, Nov 26th 2007 5:05pm by YJMark
#8 Nov 26 2007 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
All paladin healing spells have a threat generation equal to 1/3 of the healed points. This is why paladin healing in large raids is so often used. The risk of grabbing aggro from main tank is minimal and far lower than druids and priests. (From Wowwiki)

Get rid of the Salv!!!!! Blessing of wisdom <3. If you pull aggro, then you have a chance to yell at the tanks.
#9 Nov 26 2007 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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1,859 posts
Quote:
All paladin healing spells have a threat generation equal to 1/3 of the healed points

1/4, not 1/3

Quote:
Finally, I think I will work with people on aggro management more. I would've thought that by lvl 60 they would be good at it. But apparently not...

You'd think that too, eh? Just recently I helped a 64ish guildie finish a run of Underbog on Regular. He was at the last boss but couldn't finish because... the tank didn't know what Sunder was. Don't even know how they got that far in the instance. Basically I slapped him around a bit nicely to make him understand the importance of Sunder. He seemed to get it even though I tanked through my heals for the first 15ish seconds of the fight. >_>
#10 Nov 26 2007 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
Sorry, haha I fail^^
#11 Nov 26 2007 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
And then a step to the ri-i-i-i-ight...

Also what's your gear look like? Are you stacking spirit or other useless things at the expense of int? (don't do that, spirit on a paladin is useless. If it comes on good int or other gear fine but don't trade things out based on it) I second what everone else has said, get thee to Outland for the MP5.
#12 Nov 27 2007 at 5:09 AM Rating: Good
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91 posts
You put your hands on your hips....

First, I have to say that I've had a blast running Strat for my epic quest and am looking forward to completing the quest this week in Scholo -- what's not to like for a paladin? Undead by the truckload, it's like a pally playground!

I will echo what others have said -- use Wisdom on yourself, it makes a huge difference in your mana regen -- take a look at the Spell tab on your character sheet with it up vs. some other blessing, you'll see a big difference.

I take it from your post that you're not an alchemist, so you may want to try to get your hands on either scrolls of intellect or something like Adept's Elixir, Elixir of the Sages, Elixir of Draenic Wisdom or Elixir of Healing Power. These boost Intellect, Spirit, Spell Damage/Healing, etc. very nicely.

One other thought about your group -- is it possible that you're group is underleveled for the instances you're running? I had a horrible episode in ZF that nearly made me give up healing before I realized it was the group, not me. I was at lvl 55, two of the group were at least two levels below the recommended level, and the tank was at the lowest listed level. She did the best she could holding aggro, but the other two were so low they were little aggro magnets and took serious damage (and couldn't really deal any effective damage, either). It seemed when I wasn't OoM, I was busy rezzing someone. We didn't get too far, and it really shook my confidence at first. I have learned a lot since then, one of which is to take properly-leveled groups!

I do recommend a trip or two to Outlands if you haven't been there (don't sweat over not having your charger at lvl 60, you can wait a few levels) -- there's lots of good paladin gear to be had. A lot of the initial Hellfire quests are really quite easy, and have good rewards. I picked up better gear from rewards and drops in my first two hours in Hellfire Penninsula than I'd seen in 57 levels in Azeroth -- lots of +healing gear and trinkets to be had; also look for +Int.

Sorry for my lengthy post, hope it helps. Good luck to you!
#13 Nov 27 2007 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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1,599 posts
Everyones advice has been awesome. Thanks a lot. I'm an idiot for not even thinking about scrolls or elixirs...they are much cheaper than mana potions and effective...DOH!!! Sometimes you miss the little things that really help.

Stupid question - how do you post your character? I've never done that, and have seen others do it. For future questions, it will probably help a lot.

Oh, and I hit Outlands at lvl 58. Love it there, and won't quest anywhere else anymore (other than mount stuff).

Again, thanks everyone. I love this forum!!!

#14 Nov 27 2007 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
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216 posts
Well, you can look up any character on any server provided they have logged on to wow recently, via the wowarmory.com. You too, can find yourself here and it will allow you to link to yourself. By example the wize Captain here has 'http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bonechewer&n=Unholyrose' as a link in his sig. Notice how it links to the armory and has both server and character name in it.

So either search for yourself or replace the server/character name in that link.

(right now armory gives an error, probably due to maintenance)
#15 Nov 27 2007 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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1,599 posts
cool. thanks.

I'll log out in my Healing gear tonight, and try it out. :)

Thanks.
#16 Nov 27 2007 at 6:40 AM Rating: Decent
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530 posts
Quote:
Oh, and I hit Outlands at lvl 58. Love it there, and won't quest anywhere else anymore (other than mount stuff).


Well, what some people like to do is to go to Outland at 58 and get the gear from the first 4-6 quests (all of which should be quite nice upgrades) and then go back to Azeroth and tear through the nicer XP quests for levels 58 and 59. The idea behind this is that it "saves" you more quests in Outland for when you hit 70, so that you can run those quests for gold for your flying mount (if you don't have the gold by 70) or, more likely, for your epic flying mount. Since Blizzard has added more xp for the Azeroth quests, this is now also a speedy option as well. Of course, there's no problem with skipping them, it's just that there are some other things you might want to keep in mind when deciding what to do between 58 and 60.
#17 Nov 27 2007 at 6:41 AM Rating: Decent
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228 posts
First, listen to alot of these people, use Wisdom instead of Salv.

Second, I'd run a healing meter and specifically look at your overhealing %. Being a Pally this is sometimes very hard to control since we crit heal more than other healers.

What you want to look at are the heals you are making when you are topping people off and the heals on the tank when he is in that 75%-85% range. Don't be hell bend on making sure he is 100% after every heal you make.

What I did was instead of using say a Rank 7 heal in a certain spot I tried a Rank 5 or the 6. Seemed to work pretty well for me. I was overhealing like 35% now I'm around 15%-25%. What can mess this up though is healing after a wipe so you may want to mark down your numbers, heal the raid back up and then reset your meter.

I would also move away from Flash Heal spam if you can use rank 4 Holy Light. You have 2 different types of Mana regen, while casting and out of combat regen. If you are tossing out flashes left and right then you have no down time and you aren't regen-ing mana as fast as you could be doing.

Get the mana per tick enchant on your chest piece and on your bracers to. Stay away from Spirit when choosing between MP5 and an item with Spirit on it. Run BC content and get your +healing up, what is that BTW at your lv?

Would you mind posting your armory?
#18 Nov 27 2007 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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1,599 posts
Manon - that is some good advice. Never thought of trying the lower rank heals. I'll give that a shot.

Also, I'll post my armory tomorrow (and I'll log out in my Healing gear).

Thanks.
#19 Nov 27 2007 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
Hold on, wait wait stop.

FoL spamming is THE best way to heal. You shouldn't be worrying about your mp5 while not-casting. Your gear should include enough mp5 gear and crit gear to not worry about that. Downranking is just unnecessary imo. Throwing out big heals and waiting for your non-casting mp5 to kick in gets very scary for the tank, especially since as a Paladin, it shouldn't be that much higher than your casting mp5 because you aren't stacking spirit.

Just figure out how much your FoL heals for, when you see someone drop down by that much, heal them up for that amount. Doing this I had very little overhealing, I think I was at about 10% when I was healing instances, and that usually happened when I wasn't paying as much attention as I could have.
#20 Nov 28 2007 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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85 posts
I agree with CapJack. Chain healing max rank FoL is the most mana efficient way to heal. Firstly, Blizzard designed the game so that lower rank healing spells benefit less from +healing. So you are actually making your heals less efficient by casting low rank Holy light vs max rank FoL. Second, if you're hoping to regen more mana with downtime from Holy light, forget it. It takes 5 secs after a spell cast for that regen to start, so you won't be getting it much.

About overhealing, it's better to set your party hp bars to hp deficit number instead of a percentage. If your FoL heals for 700 and 1100 on a crit, wait till the tank has a 600-700 hp deficit before you start your FoL. Chain cast FoL nd save a Divine Favor -> Holy light for an emergency heal on the tank when he drops below 40%. If you pull aggro, use your bubble and keep casting instead of letting yourself get pummeled and have to emergency heal yourself.
#21 Nov 28 2007 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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1,599 posts
OK. Here is my profile.

I'm starting to collect my Outland gear, so that is why some of my stuff is wayyyyy outdated. It is difficult finding good healing plate gear pre-TBC. Hope to be fully geared up soon :)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Exodar&n=Graelik

I have a couple of diff pieces that I use for tanking (in those rare times I have to), or for solo questing (where I don't need to load up on healing stuff).

Please - unload on me. Just know that I'm not a big fan of spending money in AH for better gear as I'm saving for my charger mount. So telling me to go to the AH and spend 50g on super gear won't help :)

Thanks all.
#22 Nov 28 2007 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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228 posts
The Honorable CapJack wrote:
Hold on, wait wait stop.

FoL spamming is THE best way to heal. You shouldn't be worrying about your mp5 while not-casting. Your gear should include enough mp5 gear and crit gear to not worry about that. Downranking is just unnecessary imo. Throwing out big heals and waiting for your non-casting mp5 to kick in gets very scary for the tank, especially since as a Paladin, it shouldn't be that much higher than your casting mp5 because you aren't stacking spirit.

Just figure out how much your FoL heals for, when you see someone drop down by that much, heal them up for that amount. Doing this I had very little overhealing, I think I was at about 10% when I was healing instances, and that usually happened when I wasn't paying as much attention as I could have.


How is downranking unnecessary? I don't know what the OP is doing exactly but he maybe using the wrong heal when the tank takes a spike in damage. So instead of using a higher rank he needs to try a 1 or 2 lower rank holy light. He needs to say Ok normally I would use this heal but I'll try this lower one and see how it works in this situation.

FoL spamming works in 5 mans is fine most of the time but unless you have insane +healing you can't do that on tanks against bosses in most raids. FoL for raid heals works great but using Holy Lights on the tank works fine as well. Cost like 10 mana more(Rank4) but also heals a bit more than FoL and you have reduced cast time up pretty much constantly.

Not every situation is the same of course but for the most part I rarely use more than 1 mana pot per boss in Kara and sometimes none at all.

#23 Nov 28 2007 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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228 posts
I think you logged out with non healing gear on. :p

Just remember for starters grab anything with +healing and/or spell damage on it until you can fill out your healing set with all +healing stuff. Something is better than nothing.

I always tried to stay away from cloth gear but if something drops in like Ramparts that has healing on it, just grab it for now. It's one nice advantage Pallies have over other healing classes, we can wear anything and replace as we get our plate drops.

#24 Nov 28 2007 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
Manon wrote:
FoL spamming works in 5 mans is fine most of the time but unless you have insane +healing you can't do that on tanks against bosses in most raids.


Yeah I gotta wonder about this one as well. For instance: I take a 1-2 punch from a demon in HBF for 8k dmg (reg hit and an uppercut neither of which crush or crit) how is FoL spam going to make up for that before the next hit or 2 kills me?

I don't have experience yet with raid bosses but I can't imagine they hit any less like trucks than heroic mobs and implying that FoL is the only way to go I suspect isn't entirely accurate.

Frankly I'd wait to hear from Bodhi or someone with more healing experience (don't know if that's you Manon, couldn't tell from your post. Apologies if it is.)
#25 Nov 28 2007 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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1,859 posts
Thing is, you're not the only healer on the MT. Let's say you have a Druid's Hot's always ticking in the background with perhaps a Priest's Renew or PoMending, and the Priest using whatever heals are best for him to use.

I've been to ZA a few times with my guild now and we've only really managed to down the Bear boss. He hits kinda hard, but I've used FoL 90-95% of the fight, with the occasional HL if one of the two tanks dropped too low.

Of course, it's not the hardest raid out there, so maybe things change, but I expect things to remain more or less the same. Remember you are not alone and have to rely on other healers too, otherwise you'll go OoM by using HL too often.

Edited, Nov 28th 2007 1:00pm by Selverein
#26 Nov 28 2007 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
General consensus is FoL spam unless they get below a certain amount, then hit HL or DF + HL if it's a ton of damage to get them back up there.

Spamming a downranked HL first off does not get the same coeffecient as regular HL, so after a certain point, FoL is still going to do more. You have to wait another .5 seconds to cast it, and it costs more mana still. Downranking I just consider to be overthinking the healing process.
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