Toppin SM ChartsFollow

For the third time now I've topped damage charts in a SM run while tanking. I know tanking gives a bit of an advantage to your DPS since you usually are gonna get a hit off before others are gonna attack -- but last run I was 45% of the damage output...

Point is, though, that Ret is workin pretty good using a big 2hander except on bosses, but I know I could be a better tank as Prot. I see Warriors tanking groups all the time who are not prot, do not use SnB, and nobody gives them any crap about it.

Especially in this level bracket, is it really true that I should be using SnB for instance trash? None of the healers have complained (its not like I drop fast) -- so far its actually been the DPSers who are complaining at me.

I know my armor takes a nose-dive when I'm not using a shield - 2700 vs 1900 right now - but a good portion of my damage intake isn't even melee, and like I said Healer's havent been complaining as long as I keep agro on 1900 armor instead of a Clothie with 800.

The main job of the tank being absorbing damage and keeping agro, would it be irresponsible of me to cut my armor in order to push out much more Damage, considering the fact that I do a very decent portion of the groups total damage when I use a 2hander?

Edit: Bah, Selverein got to you first. and as always responded for more intelligable then i can.

Edited, Nov 26th 2007 11:35am by RuenBahamut

Might be your style with a SnB that is faulty. You do not really need a great one-hander to tank as a Pally.

SoC is great for soloing, but is far too unpredictable for holding aggro in PvE. Sure, the hits are big, but you cannot predict how much threat you'll put on each mob. With a one-hander you have to use SoR for steady threat and use downranked Consecration once in a while. (That will vary based on the DPS performance)

With Ret Aura, Consec and SoR/JoR, you should do quite enough threat to keep everything on you even as a Ret Pally. Of course, you must keep RF on, even if it's not talented.

You have to remember that as a Pally, threat comes from Holy damage mostly. That is much more true come end-game, but it's pretty much always true.

i took my shadow priest out of twink retirement last week and began running Cath. no matter how much i pumped out, the ret pally was always toppin me, both threat and dmg...100dps at lvl 40 is nothing to sneeze at. the runs went smoothly, heals came via VE and renews. this type of play will favor the ret pally up until about lvl 54, when BRD+ comes into play. all i can say is the sooner you learntotankforreal the better, cuz its more than crits and giggles.

Also, to add. As ret and with a 2h you will generate more threat than with SnB, but only because you arent specced for SnB. The potential threat of a ret tank is far less than a properly specced prot tank. And yes, the ret uses a 2h to dish out damage and prot uses SnB.

I have played with many different dps'ers (as a prot tank) and only the geared ret pallies with RF up (So many must think it's some kind of buff to keep this up all the time, i dont get it) could potentially take agro off me when they get a few lucky crits before mobs are glued to my board. Now in outlands however i actually have to do a decent job and that goes for the dps'ers as well, because outdpsing a tank in outlands is a lot easier.

Before you compare tanking as 2h and SnB, please reconsider the talent build also. And as others have said, if you like tanking and plan on continuing with it, go prot now and learn the tricks of the trade. You will have a much steaper (sp?) learning curve ahead if you wait with going prot till outlands instances.

Edited, Nov 27th 2007 3:49pm by TinyTin

Edited, Nov 27th 2007 3:51pm by TinyTin

Actually I totally don't know what I'm doing =P

Naw I'm tryin stuff out -- I learn pretty quick and LOVE the Paladin class -- I play it or some strange variation of it in every game that allows =)

I actually just switched to Prot -- sorta just outa curiousity. At first It was pretty bland, and about the same difficulty holding agro. I was using Dev aura since I thought I just wanted highest Armor I could get -- but Ret aura definatly helps!

Been doing Arm runs in groups of 3-5s and can keep agro on all -- I actually start to get pissed when people don't AE cuz I'm taking all the extra dmg for nothing! I dont think I'm ready for Cath quite yet, still some orange monsters in there and tanking as Ret was fine but it was cuz I'd only tank 1 or 2 at a time.

I'm gonna go back to Ret and play some 39 Bracket BGs soon, I want the 40 boots as well as a few other pieces from AB, but after that I think I'll have a really tough decision on my hands -- it's quite likely I'll be hopping back and forth alot on my climb up.

Ret is definatly more exhilirating, especially seeing crits for 390 + 440 in 1 swing, but something about tanking 5-6 elites at once and keeping agro on all of them is very satisfying. I'm sure Prot will be fun my next few levels as well.

I do have a few problems though.

After about 2 groups of 5-6 monsters I'm damn near close to OOM -- especially when battling Blizzards and Rain of Fires, I dont have a Threat calc since the new patch, I guess I could look, but it makes me nervous becuase if someone pulls em they're gonna pull em all -- so I freak out and Spam Conc. Should I be doing this? What other techniques can I use to conserve Mana.

Another huge problem with AEing like this is runners. I see them run off and it's seriously frusterating. Locks dont want to Reckless because they wanna use CoA at this level, and no rooters want to play Runner duty. In cramped situations I actually end up having to Justice. Should I be doing this anyways, or using a better Seal?

Lastly I understand BoWis for total trash, BoSanct for AEing a bit harder, and BoKings for Bosses -- but it gets frusterating changing em. What would ya'll suggest? Without Wis I definatly go outa mana in 2-3 AE rounds, but Sanct helps cut down my damage intake (usually not a problem as a good healer doesnt dip below 80%mp), and Kings is just a flat-out amazing buff. What to do?!

Thanks for readin and any help =)

There's really not a lot I can say that hasn't already been reasonably addressed.

There was one question I wanted to ask though. What level are you, tanking as you are in SM? If the mobs are even-level to you or below, and you're using CC and/or just being very careful to take them on in very small groups... Mmm, yeah, I suppose I could see you DPS-tanking with a two hander. But...

I don't know. This is always a very difficult issue for me to wrap my head around. I've heard many glorious accounts of Retribution Paladins successfully DPS-tanking with a two-hander, but I've never actually seen it.

On my Shaman and on my Balance Druid and on my Hunter and my friend's Rogue and his Mage... I've honestly never met a two-handing Paladin (or Warrior) that could reasonably keep aggro over me and keep my parties safe and moving unless he was slightly-to-severely overleveled and/or overgeared. Normal tanks have a hard enough time doing it without me helping them along.

And my friend and I are not "those" kinds of DPS'ers. It's always been a mutual source of pride for us that, in addition us almost always taking the #1 and #2 spots on a damage meter (it's not uncommon for us to combine for 2/3's of any given party's damage), we've always controlled our threat, making the tank's job easier and making it a point to put the party's welfare and advancement above our own personal damage.

This is a great point since I'm drinking, the Mages are drinking, but the Priest is friggin 90%m after a round. I should pull summore and put that Priest to some work. Only problem there is adding Healers becomes exponentially annoying, and can't forget the stunners in SM.

I feel you on the Justice thing, though, when I would play DPS role as Ret and there was a real paladin, I'd lead off with a round of Justices - especially with lowered cooldown/mana. As Prot though, my god is it obnoxious to have to keep doing it.

Both Priests and Warlocks have AE fears -- and yes it's pretty retarded when they do it. Also another frusterating thing is when they try to MC one, or Frost Nova in an inappropriate spot (oh god I do hate Shatter Mages...)