Elitist Not-WarlocksFollow

Please dont threat us like we are all some inferior beings because we find succubus useful in some situations.

You take joy in optimizing, somebody else takes joy in making gold, someone else takes joy in making alts... as long as you show some respect for different views on the game than yours none will complain or rate you down (I never did anyway).

All kind of people with good and horrible equipped toons come to these forums and ask questions or give advices if they think they know something.
Some people dont have time or means or luck to equip their toons better. Some people are at the stage of game where they need succubus.

None is preaching or saying she is elite, but almost everyone but you here has manners in expressing opinions and respect for other posters.
What gives you right to act like you are any kind of elite yourself?

uhm wait, i am 27 and hava a bachelor in computer science and a girlfriend and i go out on a **** every now and then, i have friends, i go on hollydays i do everything "normal" people do as well, but i take joy in optimizing things ans succu-cc still is one very bad option.
And what certainly takes the my joy away is beginners in instanzes.

Inoperante wrote :


QFT.


Edited, Dec 12th 2007 7:28am by shoarmakip

Edited, Dec 12th 2007 7:29am by shoarmakip

I am sure you had a lot of despise for your own self when you were one of such beginners then.
Or you are trying to tell us that you discovered WoW, popped into it, got to 70 in 2 days and started raiding on the 3rd?

Even the God himself needed full 7 days to make the world you know.

I could justify your behavior towards beginners that "take away your joy" (what are you doing around those beginners anyway, who asked you to step down from your throne?) only if you Ebayed fully epicced out level 70 and never had a chance to try and be a beginner yourself. Did you?

Well you certainly act here on forum like you did.

Some people just dont want to understand how little tolerance and manners can do wonders.
*sigh*

We have 2 people saying seduce is absolute crap in instances.

One has been 70 for a long time, raids, has the uber gear and probably runs heroics with his guild. My guess, pali tank, mage, hunter/rogue. Running in a group like that the succubus is pointless.

The other is a fresh 70, just starting heroics and probably under-geared due to the limit being lowered to honored. Pugs most of the time and probably ends up with a dps warrior(they're always in lfg)another form of cc(mage/hunter/rogue), and a druid/warrior tank who are all probably geared the same as him.

So my question to you Oaken, is how do you get through a regular 5 pull in a heroic with a lock that won't use seduce, a dps warrior, and a fairly fresh tank who can't hold any more than 2 with only 1 person on cc?

As I said before, i'm here to learn to play the class the best I can. You are saying succubus is crap but not telling us what you use/do, instead your calling us all trash for using her. Or that's how it comes off and then people get pissy and rate you down.

The whole RL arguement is void because (I'd hope) we all have real lives. Yet we all play the game and like to play well. For some of us that's learning to master the succubus in 5-mans, for you Oaken it's not. I guarantee if you explained how to be just as effective in regular groups like the one I mentioned above with out using Succubus instead of just calling everyone a noob this whole *****-slapping fest wouldn't be going on.

I just have to say that I agree with CCButch here, if you have all the CC you need, then yeah, Succy CC is the worst possible choice. However, let's take Slabs as an example, you know, the room before the boss that Mind Controls everyone. There's a couple 6 Mob pulls in there. When I run with my guild we usually have a Warrior Tank, Priest Healer, Me, My G/F Hunter and one other person, let's say a mage, for good CC.

Six Mobs, one Demon, the rest are Humanoid. Banish the Demon and down to five, Mage and Hunter CC two of them, three left.

What's the best plan of action?

1) 3 mobs beat on the tank and risk Priest getting Healing Aggro

2) Bust out VW/Felguard to Off-Tank one and risk Priest getting Healing Aggro

3) Seduce one until the first 2 are dead?

Funny how you have no idea how to read a thread, before responding.
My comment was in response to the "these classes have no crowd control"-- which was completely untrue, based on the spell list and the Wow Wiki pages. For me to include the warlock link would have been redundant, because warlocks ARE crowd control, among other things. No sh*t, of course warlocks have crowd control, what the @#%^ did you think was meant, when all of us were talking about FEAR AND SEDUCE.


Going on the previous discussion, which you missed, we were talking about crowd control. Going by the definition I mentioned that I was using, the voidwalker has crowd control; "Suffering" and "Tourment" being those.
Creating more threat than you do is just as affective at keeping a target off of you, as Seduce or Fear. The only difference being, managing threat is probably more complicated.
If you are going to tell me that something like Suffering is not a form of crowd control, then you have a rather narrow idea of what that means.

This is not about "voidwalker is not crowd control". The problem is, some people manage crowds in different ways; and those people think one way is better than another. There is no general CC minion or CC class. Until there is, then it is bullsh*t that some players think their way is the best, just because it works for them.
I started this thread, because some of those people were crabby and ignorant about how some warlocks like to play, regardless of my telling them how I would before joining a group. There is absilutly no reason to exclude the use of any one minion under most circumstances, because if the group is working together, it wont matter a whole lot.

Edited, Dec 13th 2007 6:32am by sederix

I am really amazed at the tone some people have in these forums. I keep wondering if they talk like that to strangers or people they meet for the first time. If not, why do it here?

Is it really so hard not being condescending? Is it really neccessary to call people something other than the name they present themselves with?

I'm getting too old I guess.

Personally I try to restrain myself even more in online communication than I do IRL. I can see directly if stranger I talk to on the street gets offended and can explain or apologize if necessary.
Online I might deal with sensitive people that I cant really *see* being hurt, so I try to keep that in mind and be nice.

There are consequences we have to deal with when being rude to people on the street, there are none for being rude to people in virtual world.
Only those with strong principles that dont come from fear of punishment but from inbuilt personal responsibility towards others can maintain sort of behavior that will not offend or hurt even virtual people.
And of course, they simply have to care about somebody else but themselves.

Only my opinion.... and yes, I am probably getting old too.

This made me laugh. Both said by Sederix(don't know how to do the "Sederix said" thing)

It's a good thing I never mentioned being ready for Heroics, or terribly caring about it, because you would have a point in that case.
And, are you directing this at me? I never said anything about healers healing any minion of mine. In fact, I tell them NOT to. If they do so, then that is the healer's fault, not mine, because I love me some Health Funnel.


I have to disagree with you, there.
If crowd control is a means by which one immobilizes or directs the attacks of a target or targets, then taunting can be one of them.
When I was doing Mauraudon with two others a couple weeks ago, I used to use Suffering to keep all the threat. They were safe to attack, and were not attacked themselves. I cant do the exact same thing in an Outland instance, but if I am using felguard or voidwalker, at least one target is busy and not attacking the rest of us-- which is exactly the point of Seduce.
It's not a science, but it can be affective.


What you are saying can apply to any situation, in that case.
I would have to Health Funnel ANY minion, if I did not have time to make another. If the healer is stupid enough to waste their mana on the minion, and not me, then that is the healer's problem. There is a thread in the Priest forum, called "Your Pet is not at the Top of My List of Priorities" that might amuse you.
I would not be at my "max DPS potential" if I was Seducing, either. Remember, the times I have done that, I fell right to the bottom of the list. This is not an uncommon problem.
There are lots of things that can go wrong with Seduce-- it only lasts 15 seconds, and causes a lot of threat, for example. There are lots of things that could go wrong if I chose any other minion, or any other party member.
If in the case I am using a minion as a means of CC, I would use a combination of Health Funnel, Drain Life and a series of DOT spells; just as if I were soloing/questing. That usually works well, and is less of a hassle for the group's healer. The elitist-non-warlocks are the only ones who complain the most; most people do not care, and are generally satisfied with the not dying.
The "point" is that anything can happen, and it is a matter of working together and knowing how to work with what you have. Suckybitch is not the end all of minions, and is one of the least preferred instance minion (at least according to the recent poll). Lots of people have gotten along without Seduce, even before it was not allowed in Heroics.


Sederix also made the implication that you have trouble reading everything he said, before you replied.

Out of all these post no one has said use COS before you sedduce gives you aggro and keeps your succy alive longer because she doesn't get hit and you don't get hit cuz shes in between you and the mob, and she always gets the target sedduced before it reaches you. Plus it helps her sedduce better because seduction is a shadow spell, oh and also to the OP, your the reason most demo locks are shunned nowadays.