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Shaman way OP?Follow
ok, so i recently rerolled alli on another server (just ******** around). And i was talking to someone who claimed they had a 70 Shaman, and according to them Shaman is the most OP class in the game. They can way out dps every other class if they try and their buffs are awesome. The only reason people say they suck (or are not that great) is because they have no CC. Now ive played a shaman to low 40's and it was pretty good, but from my expierence with my warrior, Shaman dont really do that great of dmg endgame and arnt too awesome in PvP either. Was it just my bad expirences with bad shamans or is this true?
Nightslayerquez wrote:
ok, so i recently rerolled alli on another server (just ******** around). And i was talking to someone who claimed they had a 70 Shaman, and according to them Shaman is the most OP class in the game. They can way out dps every other class if they try and their buffs are awesome. The only reason people say they suck (or are not that great) is because they have no CC. Now ive played a shaman to low 40's and it was pretty good, but from my expierence with my warrior, Shaman dont really do that great of dmg endgame and arnt too awesome in PvP either. Was it just my bad expirences with bad shamans or is this true?
In PvE, Shaman (Enhancement Shaman in particular) can put out some very impressive DPS and buff their party members through the roof, but I haven't found them to be able to do so to an unreasonable degree.
To put it in perspective, since my Enhancement Shaman reached the mid-to-low 40's, I can say without exaggerating that I have topped the damage meter in nearly every instance run I've participated in. Now, does that mean my class is OP, or simply that I'm exceptionally well-geared and/or just proficient at playing my class? Naturally, I'd like to believe it's the latter. I haven't paid much attention to my gear, so I can tell you it's not that. But just because I have topped the meters doesn't mean I'm incapable of being out-DPS'd. My buddy's Rogue (a Subtlety Rogue, mind you) out-DPS'es me nearly every single time, and a Fire Mage in my guild beat me in a Ramparts run yesterday.
The lack of CC isn't really an issue in PvE since our DPS and buffs are more then enough reason for parties to include us, but in PvP it's potentially crippling. Shaman rely heavily on positioning (running to or away from opponents), and they lack tools both to move themselves through space (Intercept, Blink) and to restrict their opponent's space (such as a root or incapacitate). If we're free to slug it out as we see fit, few classes can weather us, but we rarely get to do so.
This once again proves that you shouldnt belief everything people tell you.
Lol i wasnt sure to believe it or now, which is why i made this post.
Gaudion wrote:
[quote=Nightslayerquez]My buddy's Rogue (a Subtlety Rogue, mind you) out-DPS'es me nearly every single time.
that should tell you everything you need to know...
well as an elemental shaman, i come out top of the damagemeters in pretty much most 5 mans, only against rogues and shadow priests do i routinely lose, and i occasionally am outdpsed by mages and warlocks, but this is because in 5 mans mages have to get up scorch and then not have much time for fireballs, same with warlocks because dotting takes time that they would otherwise be shadowboting, whereas i have optimum damage output from the start
Overpowered?.. no good sir not at all.. far from it infact.
occasionally we get a few lucky windfury crits but its rare.. and even then its all we have going for us. what really sh*ts me is that in PvP basically every class can kick our ***.. except maybe druids.
Our class is just so simple.. right click, stormstrike, purge, shock, run around. not particularly in that order. Thats all we really can do
whats great about all the other dps classes is that they have so many random spells, nooks and crannys.
fear & stun are a huge one. Shamans get none of that. In pvp you just don't have time to lay down millions of little totems because your running away or your stunned. EVENTUALLY you'll get to run back and do some half decent burst damage but by then your almost dead anyway.
were a well balanced class but we really have nothing going for us. now PvE isnt so bad i suppose but alot of other classes can tear our dps apart.
henyway there is my 2c
Edited, Nov 27th 2007 8:53am by Tooheys
occasionally we get a few lucky windfury crits but its rare.. and even then its all we have going for us. what really sh*ts me is that in PvP basically every class can kick our ***.. except maybe druids.
Our class is just so simple.. right click, stormstrike, purge, shock, run around. not particularly in that order. Thats all we really can do
whats great about all the other dps classes is that they have so many random spells, nooks and crannys.
fear & stun are a huge one. Shamans get none of that. In pvp you just don't have time to lay down millions of little totems because your running away or your stunned. EVENTUALLY you'll get to run back and do some half decent burst damage but by then your almost dead anyway.
were a well balanced class but we really have nothing going for us. now PvE isnt so bad i suppose but alot of other classes can tear our dps apart.
henyway there is my 2c
Edited, Nov 27th 2007 8:53am by Tooheys
Scholar
20 posts
Quote:
Overpowered?.. no good sir not at all.. far from it infact.
occasionally we get a few lucky windfury crits but its rare.. and even then its all we have going for us. what really sh*ts me is that in PvP basically every class can kick our ***.. except maybe druids.
Our class is just so simple.. right click, stormstrike, purge, shock, run around. not particularly in that order. Thats all we really can do
whats great about all the other dps classes is that they have so many random spells, nooks and crannys.
fear & stun are a huge one. Shamans get none of that. In pvp you just don't have time to lay down millions of little totems because your running away or your stunned. EVENTUALLY you'll get to run back and do some half decent burst damage but by then your almost dead anyway.
were a well balanced class but we really have nothing going for us. now PvE isnt so bad i suppose but alot of other classes can tear our dps apart.
henyway there is my 2c
occasionally we get a few lucky windfury crits but its rare.. and even then its all we have going for us. what really sh*ts me is that in PvP basically every class can kick our ***.. except maybe druids.
Our class is just so simple.. right click, stormstrike, purge, shock, run around. not particularly in that order. Thats all we really can do
whats great about all the other dps classes is that they have so many random spells, nooks and crannys.
fear & stun are a huge one. Shamans get none of that. In pvp you just don't have time to lay down millions of little totems because your running away or your stunned. EVENTUALLY you'll get to run back and do some half decent burst damage but by then your almost dead anyway.
were a well balanced class but we really have nothing going for us. now PvE isnt so bad i suppose but alot of other classes can tear our dps apart.
henyway there is my 2c
I don't know what kind of Bgs you are in but the only classes I have problems with are Hunters and Rogues. Rogues keep me stunned the entire battle while the proceed to bend me over and take advantage of my while Hunters just kite me around until their bestial wrath cools down again.
Clothies are easy as pie. If I get feared I just pop my horde trinket, other than that all I have to do is run up, SS and if WF procs (Idk what's going on because my WF procs all the time and the only explanation for you never procing it is <2.6 weps or you miss 4/5 times) and all 3 hits crit then it's a one shot, if not I just cast ES for 900 damage.
Warriors and druids are a joke as well. All I have to do is Purge, SS, ES, ES, etc.
Pallys on the other hand take a little longer just because they bubble and heal or pop their LoH, but easy none the less.
Shaman are not OP. Yes we can pump out some serious DPS, yes we can majorly buff the group with totems, crit buffs, etc, but the thing that balances us is our lack of CC. We, as enhancement spec, are useless if we are more than 10 yards away and will die.
seeing as i'm a new shammy i'm going to give a outside looking in persepective.
On my raid mage (arcane/fire.. 900 damage unbuffed) a shammy in heroics that si well gear'd will usually kill me in DPS. The reason is is that while I'm stacking scorch, sheep/resheep, and spinning up that first fireball.. the shammy has been tearing down the mob. It's alot better in Kara and Gruuls where there's long boss fights. I've watched myself be 6% below the sham at the start of Maiden and then 2% up at the end. At higher raids shams start to really lack. When everyone has T5 and up the mages, spriest, locks and even rogue will start to deal way more damage.
In PvP even as fire with raid gear I usually own a shammy with around the same gear... and even in some PvP gear. A CS with a ap-pom-pyro for 5k will have them re-thinking their strat. But I see that with alot of range vs. sham battles. If we can stay away from your totems then your pretty screwed. (However.. when you guys drop your totems in a tower in AV and guard it... I hate you).
Every class has is OP moments in the game. Some in different situations, some at different levels. From what I've seen shams shine from lvl 50 till around late endgame. Atleast that was when I've had the hardest time out DPSing/killing them as a mage/war/lock.
On my raid mage (arcane/fire.. 900 damage unbuffed) a shammy in heroics that si well gear'd will usually kill me in DPS. The reason is is that while I'm stacking scorch, sheep/resheep, and spinning up that first fireball.. the shammy has been tearing down the mob. It's alot better in Kara and Gruuls where there's long boss fights. I've watched myself be 6% below the sham at the start of Maiden and then 2% up at the end. At higher raids shams start to really lack. When everyone has T5 and up the mages, spriest, locks and even rogue will start to deal way more damage.
In PvP even as fire with raid gear I usually own a shammy with around the same gear... and even in some PvP gear. A CS with a ap-pom-pyro for 5k will have them re-thinking their strat. But I see that with alot of range vs. sham battles. If we can stay away from your totems then your pretty screwed. (However.. when you guys drop your totems in a tower in AV and guard it... I hate you).
Every class has is OP moments in the game. Some in different situations, some at different levels. From what I've seen shams shine from lvl 50 till around late endgame. Atleast that was when I've had the hardest time out DPSing/killing them as a mage/war/lock.
Hmm. On my druid I simply love any shammy that trys pvp with me. I dont think I have ever lost 1 v 1 to a shammy in pvp. Ever. In fact if theres a shammy in a bg, I head straight for them, dont care what spec.
However, I do think shammies can be OP, if played right, but what class isnt if played right? (ret pallies maybe, and they can be good too if played right imo)
I have great fun on my enhancement shammy, usually 1 or 2 in dps in groups, and litterally blow clothies off the map. So as previously stated, I think its more along the lines of if you let them fight how they want too, or not.
However, I do think shammies can be OP, if played right, but what class isnt if played right? (ret pallies maybe, and they can be good too if played right imo)
I have great fun on my enhancement shammy, usually 1 or 2 in dps in groups, and litterally blow clothies off the map. So as previously stated, I think its more along the lines of if you let them fight how they want too, or not.
orickruns wrote:
Hmm. On my druid I simply love any shammy that trys pvp with me. I dont think I have ever lost 1 v 1 to a shammy in pvp. Ever. In fact if theres a shammy in a bg, I head straight for them, dont care what spec.
Gotta go with orickruns on this one... I think pcgeek has spent a little too much time in BG's and not enough time in the arena. Or at the very least you've fought some pretty bad/undergeared/insert-negative-idea-here Druids.
A Druid vs. an Enhancement Shaman doesn't play out all that differently from a Druid vs. a Warrior. Even coupled with shocks, WF can't chew through Bear Form's armor and HP faster then they can beat you down, and while they have the option to Bash/Cyclone/Root and heal to full, you can't because you can't get away from them. If your one-time-only-heal-in-a-bottle from Nature's Swiftness isn't enough... In short, this is a battle of attrition, and one Shaman in their mail are all too likely to lose.
Quote:
However, I do think shammies can be OP, if played right, but what class isnt if played right? (ret pallies maybe, and they can be good too if played right imo)
If Shaman are left alone to deal damage while PvP opponents deal with teammates/whatever, they will wreck people. An Enhancement Shaman getting a WF proc and a crit or an Elemental Shaman in general will just completely wreck people, there's no two ways about it.
The problem is, when faced with a one-on-one situation, Shaman have almost zero control and no way to counter their attacker's control either. The further along in the game you get, the more you realize that PvP is about control, positioning, and the ability to break control. Unabridged damage or high defensive numbers are simply not enough to get you the W.
Tooheys wrote:
whats great about all the other dps classes is that they have so many random spells, nooks and crannys.
fear & stun are a huge one. Shamans get none of that. In pvp you just don't have time to lay down millions of little totems because your running away or your stunned. EVENTUALLY you'll get to run back and do some half decent burst damage but by then your almost dead anyway.
QFT, this is a big reason why I am looking forward to the Inscription profession when the expansion drops.
If it does what they say it is going to do with the enhancement of existing spells and abilities, I will be looking forward to the possibility of a shock with a chance to stun.
In my opinion one of our shocks should have the ability to have the chance to stun right now. The more I play a shaman the more it becomes a game of chance though.
IF windfury procs and crits we rock.
IF LO procs and we crit rock.
It just seems that so much of the shamans key abilities are based off of relatively low (20% for both) proc rates.
IF windfury procs and crits we rock.
IF LO procs and we crit rock.
It just seems that so much of the shamans key abilities are based off of relatively low (20% for both) proc rates.
Doctorgabel wrote:
In my opinion one of our shocks should have the ability to have the chance to stun right now. The more I play a shaman the more it becomes a game of chance though.
IF windfury procs and crits we rock.
IF LO procs and we crit rock.
It just seems that so much of the shamans key abilities are based off of relatively low (20% for both) proc rates.
IF windfury procs and crits we rock.
IF LO procs and we crit rock.
It just seems that so much of the shamans key abilities are based off of relatively low (20% for both) proc rates.
I've not found Elemental to be reliant on LO at all. My LB and CL hit plenty hard enough on their own, doubly so if they crit. LO's just icing on the cake. The problem is just managing to get LB or CL off in the first place through constant pushback and/or interrupts.
Gaudion wrote:
Doctorgabel wrote:
In my opinion one of our shocks should have the ability to have the chance to stun right now. The more I play a shaman the more it becomes a game of chance though.
IF windfury procs and crits we rock.
IF LO procs and we crit rock.
It just seems that so much of the shamans key abilities are based off of relatively low (20% for both) proc rates.
IF windfury procs and crits we rock.
IF LO procs and we crit rock.
It just seems that so much of the shamans key abilities are based off of relatively low (20% for both) proc rates.
I've not found Elemental to be reliant on LO at all. My LB and CL hit plenty hard enough on their own, doubly so if they crit. LO's just icing on the cake. The problem is just managing to get LB or CL off in the first place through constant pushback and/or interrupts.
Yeah the spellcasting bar pushback huh? No Talent to prevent that too in the elemental tree.
But look on the bright side! Have you taken a look at the Season 1 arena rewards available through BG honour points? The 4 piece set bonus for the Thunderfist set is godsend.
it is a godsend:) im working towards it and when i get it ill spec away from elemental focus eye of the storm(focused casting)and into reduced crit chance against me
edit: gotta remember names of talents^^
Edited, Dec 2nd 2007 12:07pm by pieeatingtroll
edit: gotta remember names of talents^^
Edited, Dec 2nd 2007 12:07pm by pieeatingtroll
2 posts
yah i have a elemental shammy level 70 on dragonmaw and i have like 800+ damage and only raid and i am usally tope 1 2 in our raid for ten mans in 25 mans grull
and such i am always in the top 5 and have healers fight over whos group i am in . 100+heal is a huge buff exp when you have good gear its hard to find any where to even get 25+ heal
and such i am always in the top 5 and have healers fight over whos group i am in . 100+heal is a huge buff exp when you have good gear its hard to find any where to even get 25+ heal
My 39 shammy was doing the quest where you have to kill the Stromgarde lieutenant and his two guards patrolling Arathi -- a 38 and two 37s. Thought this may be tough, taking 3 mobs w no cc that are w/in a level or two of me. Good lord. Took em down in a flash, w/out going below half health or mana, the sort of performance I'd expect with my notoriously pve-overpowered druid or hunter, not a humble shammy. So I guess shammies are OP.
Enhance Shamans are great for every instance/raid up to SSC/TK. Once you reach the higher instances, Shaman DPS starts to pale in comparison to the casters and rogues. No fault of the Shaman, just class design. Fortunately, without Windfury, Rogues drop WAY behind in dmg so Enhance Shamans will always be necessary for any competent raid.
As for OP.... not a chance. Shamans lose OFTEN versus almost every other class.
~sins
As for OP.... not a chance. Shamans lose OFTEN versus almost every other class.
~sins
Shamans aren't overpowered. If you want overpowered play a lock.
To be perfectly honest, people who are still whining about locks need to wake up. Unless you want to make it a ridiculous argument about locks with S3 Arena gear and 16k health (incidentally most classes can reach high health if they stack STAMINA), Warlocks are pretty much in balance these days.
The reason people keep complaining is that Fear is a very *annoying* ability to get caught by, it is far from unstoppable and since the repeated nerfs (every patch so far since release has nerfed Fear somehow, directly or indirectly) barely worth casting.
And habit, of course; since 'teh locks' have been the enemy for so long it's difficult to stop whining about the same thing.
~sins
The reason people keep complaining is that Fear is a very *annoying* ability to get caught by, it is far from unstoppable and since the repeated nerfs (every patch so far since release has nerfed Fear somehow, directly or indirectly) barely worth casting.
And habit, of course; since 'teh locks' have been the enemy for so long it's difficult to stop whining about the same thing.
~sins
Quote:
Shamans lose OFTEN versus almost every other class.
lol not a warrior...everyone beats warriors >_>
Quote:
To be perfectly honest, people who are still whining about locks need to wake up. Unless you want to make it a ridiculous argument about locks with S3 Arena gear and 16k health (incidentally most classes can reach high health if they stack STAMINA), Warlocks are pretty much in balance these days.
The reason people keep complaining is that Fear is a very *annoying* ability to get caught by, it is far from unstoppable and since the repeated nerfs (every patch so far since release has nerfed Fear somehow, directly or indirectly) barely worth casting.
And habit, of course; since 'teh locks' have been the enemy for so long it's difficult to stop whining about the same thing.
~sins
The reason people keep complaining is that Fear is a very *annoying* ability to get caught by, it is far from unstoppable and since the repeated nerfs (every patch so far since release has nerfed Fear somehow, directly or indirectly) barely worth casting.
And habit, of course; since 'teh locks' have been the enemy for so long it's difficult to stop whining about the same thing.
~sins
QFT
Shamans are not overpowered. What Shamans are is, like the Druid, versatile. More so (along with Druid) than any other class in the game. Druids and Shamans can zap you from afar then run in and beat on you before stepping back and healing up to do it again.
In a single aspect, we are FAR from overpowered. Its the fact that we can be so many different aspects. But keep something in mind - it takes friggin' skill to play a Shammy! For all people whine about how we just Shock and pwn - no. We have, by mid 40's, 25+ totems to decide between, four different shock spells to pick from as well as choices like 'what weapon buff do I put on?'. You have to stop and THINK to play a Shammy, and especially in PVP you don't have all that long TO think.
As for Warlocks being OP'd? Any class that wears cloth and can be stunlocked to death by a rogue does not qualify as 'OP'.
In a single aspect, we are FAR from overpowered. Its the fact that we can be so many different aspects. But keep something in mind - it takes friggin' skill to play a Shammy! For all people whine about how we just Shock and pwn - no. We have, by mid 40's, 25+ totems to decide between, four different shock spells to pick from as well as choices like 'what weapon buff do I put on?'. You have to stop and THINK to play a Shammy, and especially in PVP you don't have all that long TO think.
As for Warlocks being OP'd? Any class that wears cloth and can be stunlocked to death by a rogue does not qualify as 'OP'.
Andy RodRichard is overpowered...have you seen his serve?
Edit: Dang, you can't even write a person's name anymore...
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 3:23pm by Ailitardif
Edit: Dang, you can't even write a person's name anymore...
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 3:23pm by Ailitardif
Shamans are not OP not at all.. I clearly remeber that I got 3 shot + ES on my priest. I hope this will change once I will get the gear (understand 350+ resilence) This kinda reminds me of the shaman 60 HWL with ragnaros hammer poping 500 crits on plate paladin back in o'l lvl60 days.
Imho to 3 shot someone is not f*ing NVIDIA.. its not the way this game should be played.. However I can imagine it is hard for meelee shaman to get to someone.. for example BM hunters, frost mages, affliction locks, druids that actually know that they can shape shift.
Imho to 3 shot someone is not f*ing NVIDIA.. its not the way this game should be played.. However I can imagine it is hard for meelee shaman to get to someone.. for example BM hunters, frost mages, affliction locks, druids that actually know that they can shape shift.
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