Draeneipally wrote:
EXACTLY, ret pallys get two stuns on seperate CDs with pretty damn good range that completely stun, also damage doesnt undo the stun, enhancement shaman would be pretty OP with a full stun as when they get in the can kil an opponent pretty quick, the same goes for elemental shamans, if they had true CC it would be OP im elemental and am usualy doing the best in BGs top damage top kills top healing ECT. because i know my place, stay behind the meatbags and let the horde be distracted by the rogue and or warrior smashing their face in, while that happens nuke them then swicth targets, heal when needed.
I didn't say Shaman needed a stun. I said they needed a root, CC, or incapacitate.
Hammer of Justice, Kidney Shot... those are stuns. You can hit the target while it's in effect and it'll still run for its full duration. Gouge, Repentance... those are incapacitates, they break on damage. CC are much like incapacitates in that they break on damage, but they tend to last much longer, taking mobs out for most or all of a fight until its buddies can be delt with. You're controlling the crowd, hence the term "crowd control".
Shaman don't need a stun so they can stand there and beat on someone while they're unable to fight back, nor do they really need a CC that's going to last long enough for them to fight more than one target since they have Stoneclaw Totem, although it would admittedly be nice.
What they do so desperately need, however, is a way to keep an opponent in one place for just a couple seconds while they either run to or away from them. Just imagine trying to play your Retribution Paladin without Repentance or Blessing of Freedom. Congratulations, you're an Enhancement Shaman, and you're never going to get close enough to anyone to kill them.
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IMHO shaman do not need CC as it would make them extremely OP to the point where enhancement shamans fail in pvp, i highly disagree i have seen enhancement shamans beat me in BGs in terms of how well they do
Enhancement Shaman can (keep in mind that I said "can" and not "will") beat Paladins because we don't need to chase you. You guys are just as eager to get into melee range with us as we are with you.
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it rly comes down to how you play your class...
Are you suggesting I play my class poorly?
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i would guess a good enh shaman in pvp woudl...
First of all, don't guess. Go try actually playing an Enhancement Shaman in PvP before you begin giving advice. The higher the better.
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...let another class attack their target first then gank them much like a rogue. who said you couldnt be sneaky?
So you're... suggesting that in order to be an effective Enhancement Shaman in PvP I need to gank people. Am I understanding you correctly?
Give me a break.
Any class/spec can decimate any other class/spec if they're opportunists or gank artists that don't engage until the target already has one or more mobs on them. I'm talking about true PvP here. One-on-ones, to some extent, BG's, and most importantly, the arena.
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attack them from behind or the side like a blind spot hide behind a tree?
Yeah, wow... that totally works.
Look. It doesn't matter whether you attack first or not. Shaman can not keep opponents near them when they're Enhancement or away from them if they're Elemental. You can start a battle in a favorable position, but from the moment your opponent starts reacting to you,
they are in control of where the two of you will stand and when/where/if you trade blows.
I went 3-0 against a Hunter yesterday that I blindsided all three fights because I couldn't control him. Even though I could burst him down to 50-25% on my initial attack, all he had to do was get out beyond 20 yards and I was done. Completely incapable of any kind of offense (I'm Enhancement). Mages? Same thing. If they can play their class worth half a damn, between chills, roots, Polymorphs, and whatever else is up their sleeve, if I can't kill them on my initial burst, they're gone. Warlocks? More of the same. A little easier to navigate, but harder to kill in return. If they know their class and use the tools available to them, they really only need to get away from us once and it's over.
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play archer fish and use water breath in the rivers?
I sincerely hope you included that one for humor value.
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same goes for ele. shamans dont need CC we were already pretty OP and kinda still are in terms of the burst damage
You say "we" here, but I really don't think you play a Shaman, and if you do you're probably not that high. Feel free to correct me on this.
EDIT: I see now from your signature that apparently you do play a Shaman... which of course begs the question, "What's with this terrible post and how are you not aware of any of these issues?"
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i made a frost mage recently and respeced her to fire and was expecting to blow my shamans burst out of the water... not. not trying to flame or anything but shamans proabably have superior burst DPS, and as we all know... burst is king in pvp (RUN-ON SENTENCES FTW!!!)
As I've already said... damage isn't the issue. The issue is control, mobility, and our complete lack of both. All the burst in the world doesn't do you a bit of good if you can't use it, and PvP in Outland is nothing like it was when 60 in Azeroth was end-game. You are just not going to run someone from zero to dead in one burst. Ever.
Edited, Nov 23rd 2007 10:41pm by Gaudion