http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oi0Vc0fzxIziZZVVG000xo
Im almost level 70 and am wondering if a 40/0/21 build would be good for both Raiding and PVP. I want to do both in endgame and dont want to have to respec all the time, or change my tailoring spec. I also enjoy frost and it is what im most familiar with. Thanks for the help. I also like the +150% damage on crit bonus.
Edited, Nov 21st 2007 6:23am by chucknate
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40/0/21 Viable PVP/PVE build?Follow
Just go full frost and get about 1000 frost damage. A guildie of mine is full frost and he keeps us with us fire mages. Not only can he raid, but he can pvp as well.
Full frost does better once you get to around +700 spell damage. That is the rule of thumb I'd look at if I were you. It won't do as much damage as fire, and, were I you, I'd spec fire to be familiar with it... you never know, you might love it and not ever want to go back, but if you do try it, stick with it for more than a night of raiding. Play it for a week and get comfy with it. The same spell damage number is true for arcane/fire vs. full fire.
HTH
HTH
Scholar
16 posts
I roll with the 40/0/21 build and it does work well in both PvP and end-game raiding (I've only done Kara). I find that I tend to get rocked in the damage meter game by the full frost mage in my guild (he has way better gear than I do), but I totally own on fire mages. The three minute abilities of the arcane tree also let me dump on up to 5.5k (I have 943 spell damage) frost bolts on unsuspecting allies in PvP.
Quote:
The three minute abilities of the arcane tree also let me dump on up to 5.5k (I have 943 spell damage) frost bolts on unsuspecting allies in PvP.
This is insignificant compared to the power of the dark side of the force.
Wait.... wrong quote.... sorry.
You have a specific combo as full frost that will hurt more than a POM Frostbolt in PvP. Summon water elemental, start casting a frostbolt. When the frostbolt is just about to leave your hand, have the water elemental freeze your target and you cast an ice lance. The waterbolt,ice lance, and frostbolt will all arrive within .5 second of each other. I've been the recipient of this (as well as a giver of this) and you can see massive damage there (I got 8K in damage from that combo).
So, your average DPS as frost is supplemented by a water elemental, don't forget to use it when it is up. Along with winter's chill and empowered frostbolt, you can rock the DPS more as deep frost than as arcane frost once you get over 700 spell damage, AND still be viable for PvP.
40/0/21 is amazing. I use it and love it. Crit for 15k+ last night on curator =) Sure it was during his evocate state, but still...
Avg hit now is around 1700 and crit for just over 4k. You will not reach a fire mage that is equally geared but you will be very close, and with Ice Block in your pocket, Frost trumps Fire imo =)
Edited, Nov 21st 2007 10:04am by compgenius
Avg hit now is around 1700 and crit for just over 4k. You will not reach a fire mage that is equally geared but you will be very close, and with Ice Block in your pocket, Frost trumps Fire imo =)
Edited, Nov 21st 2007 10:04am by compgenius
Quote:
with Ice Block in your pocket, Frost trumps Fire imo =)
Trainable ice block will fix that for ya...
ktangent wrote:
Quote:
The three minute abilities of the arcane tree also let me dump on up to 5.5k (I have 943 spell damage) frost bolts on unsuspecting allies in PvP.
This is insignificant compared to the power of the dark side of the force.
Wait.... wrong quote.... sorry.
You have a specific combo as full frost that will hurt more than a POM Frostbolt in PvP. Summon water elemental, start casting a frostbolt. When the frostbolt is just about to leave your hand, have the water elemental freeze your target and you cast an ice lance. The waterbolt,ice lance, and frostbolt will all arrive within .5 second of each other. I've been the recipient of this (as well as a giver of this) and you can see massive damage there (I got 8K in damage from that combo).
So, your average DPS as frost is supplemented by a water elemental, don't forget to use it when it is up. Along with winter's chill and empowered frostbolt, you can rock the DPS more as deep frost than as arcane frost once you get over 700 spell damage, AND still be viable for PvP.
I always thought it was above around 900 spell damage from the theorycrafting posts that I have read.
ktangent wrote:
Full frost does better once you get to around +700 spell damage. That is the rule of thumb I'd look at if I were you. It won't do as much damage as fire, and, were I you, I'd spec fire to be familiar with it... you never know, you might love it and not ever want to go back, but if you do try it, stick with it for more than a night of raiding. Play it for a week and get comfy with it. The same spell damage number is true for arcane/fire vs. full fire.
HTH
HTH
I agree with ktangent, I was frost from 20-70, made my fsw set, then I decided to go fire. I made my whole set, respecced and I love fire. I doubt I will ever go back to frost. I don't like to pvp, and for dailies and stuff, 10/48/3 is good enough for the random encounters you will face and finally being near the top on the dps meters is awesome.
2 posts
So my understanding is, do it until i get 700 spell damage?
I think it's 900 damage with mind mastery... but I haven't seen hard numbers for frost, only with fire and I know is scales similarly (empowered frostbolt is most of that scaling).
You need at least 41 points in the frost tree to be effective in pvp.
By pvp I mean arena though, anyone can shoot random people running by you in a battleground.
You'll always be sub-par in either pve or pvp unless you spec specifically for one purpose.
There are probably lots of examples out there of really really good pvp mages that didn't spec heavily in the frost tree, but it'd still be easier on them if they did. Same thing goes for raiding, you'll (usually) do more damage with a heavy fire spec (or arcane if you're wearing T5).
Also, gear makes up for everything, if you have 1k spelldamage and you're going to kara pvp specced, it probably wouldn't be much of an issue, as long as you wear the appropriate gear. This doesn't work as well the other way around though, as you won't really outgear people in arenas.
Edited, Nov 21st 2007 5:31pm by Kapot
By pvp I mean arena though, anyone can shoot random people running by you in a battleground.
You'll always be sub-par in either pve or pvp unless you spec specifically for one purpose.
There are probably lots of examples out there of really really good pvp mages that didn't spec heavily in the frost tree, but it'd still be easier on them if they did. Same thing goes for raiding, you'll (usually) do more damage with a heavy fire spec (or arcane if you're wearing T5).
Also, gear makes up for everything, if you have 1k spelldamage and you're going to kara pvp specced, it probably wouldn't be much of an issue, as long as you wear the appropriate gear. This doesn't work as well the other way around though, as you won't really outgear people in arenas.
Edited, Nov 21st 2007 5:31pm by Kapot
Scholar
16 posts
I completely believe you about the stats part, but I this build suits my playing style better (my playing style being a complete ****** that is. Sometimes being able to instantly chuck a ton of extra damage out (instead of higher consistent damage)comes in handy.
Good old rate problems...I miss Calc I.
Good old rate problems...I miss Calc I.
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