pvp vs. pve gearsFollow

link us your armory or at least tell us your name and realm.

need it if you benefit the most from it. While Veteran's gear isnt the best for raids, if you gem and enchant it properly (while playing smart), you can still excel in the kara raid group.

If there's someone else who can use it more (and you and your group like them) let them have it. If there's a REALLY nice piece that's a big upgrade for you and a bigger upgrade for them, go ahead and roll on it. If there's a veteran in the group (the founder or long time player with the group), consider letting them have it. If you didnt play well that day, consider letting someone else have it to show you aren't a douche.

Enjoy kara!

Edit: Have you been running 5-man's lately? If not, you might want to run normal SV to get some practice (and there's TWO Beast Lord drops off the final boss that help with your cc) or do some daily heroics. Just make sure you dont go into the group with no memory of grouping in a dungeon.

Edited, Nov 20th 2007 11:11pm by DukyFrodo

I was considering on my hunter going into the BG's to farm up the honor for S3 honor gear and S1 arena gear (in essence fully decking out my hunter in purple gear). If I were to do that (in comparison with my current gear...62-69 greens and blues except for my bow which a 70 blue), here's what would happen:

My attack power and agility would both DROP
My intellect would go up slightly, but that's only because I'm already really low (need about 2.2k mana to get up to Aethien's suggested 6.5k).
My health would go up about 4k and I would have a 7.5% less chance to be critted (15% less damage taken on crits and IIRC from DoTs).
My hit rating would drop to about half what it is now.
My crit chance would go up a few %.

That is of course assuming I dont socket any of the gear, but still...I end up with an amazing amount of survivability (which you need in PvP) and lose out on a bit of damage dealing potential (which you need in PvE). I may go in to get the gladiator's xbow, but that's because the bow itself does more damage.

Other classes DO benefit a lot from the PvP gear. But even once a druid has hit 5.6% crit reduction from resilience does the extra stats become meaningless in PvE.

True, but without spending several hundred gold my AP wouldn't go up that much from gemming them.

And I did not take into account a leg armor kit (which I have), but all that means is slightly less difference in agility and a bigger difference in stamina. I did take into account the set bonus (resilience for a raiding hunter...woohoo) but not the 1 second of multi shot. But still, for a BM hunter you wont be using multi much anyway and a survival hunter wont have the agility on the PvP gear.

To make a direct comparison later (once S3 hits and the items are actually in the database), I will use the site http://wowdigger.com/ to compare my hunter based off my armory (two copies, one with my current gear and BM and one with my current gear and SV) and then full PvP gear with fillers from my current gear (i.e. 1 ring, 1-2 trinkets) for each spec. Granted I'm not geared for SV, but it'll be a good comparison I believe.

Duky, do you mean steamvaults or survival?

Edited, Nov 26th 2007 10:19pm by skribs

If you are wearing purely PvP gear: get the hell out of the raid instance!

In tBC, PvP and PvE gear are completely different worlds, and although in S1 PvE gear was still good in Arena it isnt anymore, if you dont have a crapload of resilience and PvP focused gear you will die fast and perform weak in PvP.
If you have full pvp gear you'll miss out on way to much things for PvE and you will perform badly.

A few pieces of PvP gear are ok, and can even be great but a lot is simply bad.

Note that this site doesn't take quiver bonus into account, so my DPS will be lower than it actually is and my attack delay will be higher (by 15% on both accounts).

Tooltip, here's what I'm looking at:

BM Spec, with current gear:
7037 HP, 5098 MP, 12 MP/5
435 Agi, 358 Stam, 133 Int
4162 Armor
463-575 Damage, 2.33 speed, 222.3 DPS
1165 AP, 64 hit (4.06%), 17.25% crit chance
12.95% dodge, 0% crit reduction, 0% crit damage reduction

SV Spec, with current gear:
7664 HP, 5098 MP, 12 MP/5
500 Agi, 358 Stam, 133 Int
4292 Armor
486-598 Damage, 2.80 speed, 193.4 DPS
1279 AP, 64 hit (4.06%), 21.82% crit chance
15.56% dodge chance, 0% crit reduction, 0% crit damage reduction

BM Spec, with full PvP gear (1 old ring, trinkets both 80 AP, assuming same enchants and all +12 AP gems):
10219 HP, 6148 MP, 0 MP/5
420 Agi, 673 Stam, 203 Int
6114 Armor
595-698 Damage, 2.58 Speed, 250.1 DPS (bow has 16 less DPS)
1316 AP, 31 Hit (1.97%), 25.05% crit chance
12.35% dodge chance, 7.51% crit reduction, 15.02% crit damage reduction

SV Spec, with full PvP gear (1 old ring, trinkets both 40 crit rating, assuming same enchants and all +12 AP gems):
11129 HP, 6148 MP, 0 MP/5
482 Agi, 673 Stam, 203 Int
6240 Armor
1267 AP, 31 hit (4.06%), 33.18% crit chance
14.87% dodge chance, 7.51% crit reduction, 15.02% crit damage reduction

Compare those to the benchmarks for the 2 specs in Aethien's post, and to each other: (note that these are without AotH, while his were with)
7K HP, 6.5k MP, 9% hit
BM: 1545 AP, 20% crit,
SV: 1395 AP, 27.5% crit, 650-700 Agility

All of the gear setups had over 7k HP. While my current gear has a few hundred over, the PvP gear has 3K-4K over. That's a huge difference of extra health which is nice...but shouldn't be picked over other stats in this scenario.
While my gear is very lacking in int (I could probably use 100 more), this gear is better, but considering it's full epics and it's STILL not up to the benchmark, that's something. 6148 mana in full S3 honor gear of a recomended 6500?
Both are lacking in +hit, although my current gear has more (it's such a good thing I'm not raiding atm).
Both are lacking in AP. If I kept the same trinkets instead of getting the +80 AP ones (and thus got the ones with a cooldown) I would actually lose about 7 AP by switching to the PvP gear. As it stands, however, the PvP gear still falls over 200 AP short of the benchmark.
As for SV spec, I actually have MORE agility than the full PvP gear. You're looking at needing about 170 more to meet the minimum for raids.

You do get a lot of armor and resilience out of the PvP gear...but then again why do you need armor? You're not tanking! The one nice thing is the ignoring of armor on the ring.
There is also a huge amount of crit %, which creates spikey damage (harder for tanks to hold threat if yours isn't steady), but does somewhat offset the low DPS.

So all in all, you're looking at more burst damage but less steady damage, more defensive stats and less offensive stats. This is NOT what you want to bring to a raid. However...I may see myself getting the xbow and the ring, but not the rest of the gear.