I dinged 50. I hope to hit 70 before Christmas (can't play much on weekdays tho). I am starting to think about my end-game spec, and I need to hear from you guys.. the O-boards are making me sick. Since a good amount of effort goes into gearing, I figure I will need to make a decision and stick to it (for a while anyway).
My goal is once I hit end-game, to never PvE again. It will go: log - pvp pvp pvp - log. The specs I am looking at are 41/0/20 pvp mut., or some form of Shadowstep. Keep in mind my life will be BG's and very low arena's for a long time. I got the 41/0/20 idea from Tosan posting in the "mut is not dead" threads (Tosan also posting how 41/0/20 with serrated + imp. exp. armor and you get clothies down to zero armor http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2968181286&sid=1).
At this point i'm not going AR/prep it's too bandwagony, plus its not much different from my current swords lvling spec, just add prep for another AR... not much fun / still get kited. Xasha (lol i know) is calling it failstep, but you guys make lolstep sound fun as hell. Of course not being able to kill anything is NOT fun as hell.
To make a long post short: those of you who have done both - played mut. recently (with resil and all) - and the new ShS - experiences do tell do tell.
Mut being dead in the +2200 arena doesn't matter to me much. I'm almost positive I will never care enough to get that high.
Editted for Sal clarity.
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 3:28pm by DrMayhem
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This hurts my eyes.
too long yeh yeh
No...b/c it should look like this:
DrMayhem wrote:
I dinged 50. I hope to hit 70 before Christmas (can't play much on weekdays tho). I am starting to think about my end-game spec, and I need to hear from you guys.. the O-boards are making me sick. Since a good amount of effort goes into gearing, I figure I will need to make a decision and stick to it (for a while anyway).
My goal is once I hit end-game, to never PvE again. It will go: log - pvp pvp pvp - log. The specs I am looking at are 41/0/20 pvp mut., or some form of Shadowstep. Keep in mind my life will be BG's and very low arena's for a long time. I got the 41/0/20 idea from Tosan posting in the "mut is not dead" threads (Tosan also posting how 41/0/20 with serrated + imp. exp. armor and you get clothies down to zero armor http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2968181286&sid=1).
At this point i'm not going AR/prep it's too bandwagony, plus its not much different from my current swords lvling spec, just add prep for another AR... not much fun / still get kited. Xasha (lol i know) is calling it failstep, but you guys make lolstep sound fun as hell. Of course not being able to kill anything is NOT fun as hell.
To make a long post short: those of you who have done both - played mut. recently (with resil and all) - and the new ShS - experiences do tell do tell.
Mut being dead in the +2200 arena doesn't matter to me much. I'm almost positive I will never care enough to get that high.
My goal is once I hit end-game, to never PvE again. It will go: log - pvp pvp pvp - log. The specs I am looking at are 41/0/20 pvp mut., or some form of Shadowstep. Keep in mind my life will be BG's and very low arena's for a long time. I got the 41/0/20 idea from Tosan posting in the "mut is not dead" threads (Tosan also posting how 41/0/20 with serrated + imp. exp. armor and you get clothies down to zero armor http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2968181286&sid=1).
At this point i'm not going AR/prep it's too bandwagony, plus its not much different from my current swords lvling spec, just add prep for another AR... not much fun / still get kited. Xasha (lol i know) is calling it failstep, but you guys make lolstep sound fun as hell. Of course not being able to kill anything is NOT fun as hell.
To make a long post short: those of you who have done both - played mut. recently (with resil and all) - and the new ShS - experiences do tell do tell.
Mut being dead in the +2200 arena doesn't matter to me much. I'm almost positive I will never care enough to get that high.
LOL that fun Chase bank advert -------------------------------------->
covers half my text box for posting, so I say "F*** it just keep typing."
covers half my text box for posting, so I say "F*** it just keep typing."
Here's the lowdown on PVP'n.
1.) Gear Resil/Stam above all else until you get to around 10k hp and 400 resil. Then, gear for DPS making armor penetration your highest priority.
2.) There are basically three viable pvp builds:
Ar/Prep
Combat Maces
Shadowstep
Mutilate is no longer only dead in Arenas but is now dead in normal bg pvp as well. This is because opponents are getting more and more stun resist, resil and HP. All of this together kills a mutilate spec, and in BGs especially mutilate's mobility is paltry compared to shadowstep. This doesn't mean you can't still be good and play as mutilate as neilyo is a good example of that. It is however significantly easier to just go one of the three above ways, as swords/maces/fists are not affected by resilience as much as daggers are (swords/maces/fists have crits as BONUS attacks, daggers are reliant on crits). Try to be mutilate if you want to, but know that you're needlessly making things harder for yourself.
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 2:34pm by Shaolinz
1.) Gear Resil/Stam above all else until you get to around 10k hp and 400 resil. Then, gear for DPS making armor penetration your highest priority.
2.) There are basically three viable pvp builds:
Ar/Prep
Combat Maces
Shadowstep
Mutilate is no longer only dead in Arenas but is now dead in normal bg pvp as well. This is because opponents are getting more and more stun resist, resil and HP. All of this together kills a mutilate spec, and in BGs especially mutilate's mobility is paltry compared to shadowstep. This doesn't mean you can't still be good and play as mutilate as neilyo is a good example of that. It is however significantly easier to just go one of the three above ways, as swords/maces/fists are not affected by resilience as much as daggers are (swords/maces/fists have crits as BONUS attacks, daggers are reliant on crits). Try to be mutilate if you want to, but know that you're needlessly making things harder for yourself.
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 2:34pm by Shaolinz
DrMayhem wrote:
LOL that fun Chase bank advert -------------------------------------->
covers half my text box for posting, so I say "F*** it just keep typing."
covers half my text box for posting, so I say "F*** it just keep typing."
Use dis.
Oh, and go Hemo. It's pretty much the best right now.
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 12:36pm by MYteddy
Quote:
This doesn't mean you can't still be good and play as mutilate as neilyo is a good example of that.
Yeah, except Neilyo is AR/Prep now.
So yeah...
And I think you guys are being to liberal with shadowstep.
You're having fun with it. It does look like it could work. And I'm most likely going to give it a shot when S3 start, after our rating are reset...
But a few rogues doing okay with a spec in the 1600-1700 ranged doesn't equal = 'viable'.
Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
Quote:
This doesn't mean you can't still be good and play as mutilate as neilyo is a good example of that.
Yeah, except Neilyo is AR/Prep now.
So yeah...
And I think you guys are being to liberal with shadowstep.
You're having fun with it. It does look like it could work. And I'm most likely going to give it a shot when S3 start, after our rating are reset...
But a few rogues doing okay with a spec in the 1600-1700 ranged doesn't equal = 'viable'.
ARENA ISN'T ALWAYS ABOUT 2000+!!!!!!
Muti isn't "dead" for BG's. I used 41/0/20 (the build you are referring to) up until the last patch and did perfectly fine with it.
So few rogues are rated 2000+, yet everyone jumps on the bandwagon that the 2000+ rogues jump on. The needs of your average BG/1600-rated rogue (the most common rogue) differ vastly from the 2000+ Arena rogues.
Yes, it's hard to justify Muti against opponents with 400 resil, but I rarely come across these opponents in BG's, and I never come across them in my 1600-1700 rated 2v2 team.
To address the OP's question, I spec'd away from 41/0/20 last week when 2.3 came out, to give Hemo/Shs a try. Honestly both specs seem equally effective. Play-style is obviously different however. Assuming you aren't a keyboard turner, either spec will work just fine for BG's. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, they are both fun to play. Personally I think muti has the edge regarding "fun factor" in BG's, but that's just me.
That said, I'll probably stay Hemo, because at times (soloing lower end instances, farming, etc) it's just easier (positionaly) to use over Muti.
Finally, a respec will never cost more than 50 gold. That's equal to about 45 minutes of grinding in any area level 66+. Play around with a dozen different builds in battlegrounds until you find something you like. It's money well spent.
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 5:13pm by Vvillain
So few rogues are rated 2000+, yet everyone jumps on the bandwagon that the 2000+ rogues jump on. The needs of your average BG/1600-rated rogue (the most common rogue) differ vastly from the 2000+ Arena rogues.
Yes, it's hard to justify Muti against opponents with 400 resil, but I rarely come across these opponents in BG's, and I never come across them in my 1600-1700 rated 2v2 team.
To address the OP's question, I spec'd away from 41/0/20 last week when 2.3 came out, to give Hemo/Shs a try. Honestly both specs seem equally effective. Play-style is obviously different however. Assuming you aren't a keyboard turner, either spec will work just fine for BG's. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, they are both fun to play. Personally I think muti has the edge regarding "fun factor" in BG's, but that's just me.
That said, I'll probably stay Hemo, because at times (soloing lower end instances, farming, etc) it's just easier (positionaly) to use over Muti.
Finally, a respec will never cost more than 50 gold. That's equal to about 45 minutes of grinding in any area level 66+. Play around with a dozen different builds in battlegrounds until you find something you like. It's money well spent.
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 5:13pm by Vvillain
Vvillain wrote:
Muti isn't "dead" for BG's. I used 41/0/20 (the build you are referring to) up until the last patch and did perfectly fine with it.
So few rogues are rated 2000+, yet everyone jumps on the bandwagon that the 2000+ rogues jump on. The needs of your average BG/1600-rated rogue (the most common rogue) differ vastly from the 2000+ Arena rogues.
[/i]
So few rogues are rated 2000+, yet everyone jumps on the bandwagon that the 2000+ rogues jump on. The needs of your average BG/1600-rated rogue (the most common rogue) differ vastly from the 2000+ Arena rogues.
[/i]
The reason that there is so much flack from 2k rated people though, is the "1600 rogue" will pick a spec they like, because it is fun. Then they come crying why they can't get past 1600, start blaming it on lack of gear, or all their opponents were in full merciless, etc.
Might as well be.
I'm fairly confident I could get a team in the 1600-1700 as a Mutilate Rogue (I did get to 1901 as one in S1)... does that mean Mutilate is fine?
Heck, one of my guildie is too lazy to respec... so he Arenas as Combat Dagger. He's a good player with a good combo... he's at 1650 2v2. Does that mean 'combat dagger' is viable?
If a spec doesn't work at end range, then you're doing yourself a dis-service by going with it at lower level. Unless of course, you don't care about your rating... then do whatever you want and have fun, all specs are viable for that.
I'm fairly confident I could get a team in the 1600-1700 as a Mutilate Rogue (I did get to 1901 as one in S1)... does that mean Mutilate is fine?
Heck, one of my guildie is too lazy to respec... so he Arenas as Combat Dagger. He's a good player with a good combo... he's at 1650 2v2. Does that mean 'combat dagger' is viable?
If a spec doesn't work at end range, then you're doing yourself a dis-service by going with it at lower level. Unless of course, you don't care about your rating... then do whatever you want and have fun, all specs are viable for that.
Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
Might as well be.
I'm fairly confident I could get a team in the 1600-1700 as a Mutilate Rogue (I did get to 1901 as one in S1)... does that mean Mutilate is fine?
Heck, one of my guildie is too lazy to respec... so he Arenas as Combat Dagger. He's a good player with a good combo... he's at 1650 2v2. Does that mean 'combat dagger' is viable?
If a spec doesn't work at end range, then you're doing yourself a dis-service by going with it at lower level. Unless of course, you don't care about your rating... then do whatever you want and have fun, all specs are viable for that.
I'm fairly confident I could get a team in the 1600-1700 as a Mutilate Rogue (I did get to 1901 as one in S1)... does that mean Mutilate is fine?
Heck, one of my guildie is too lazy to respec... so he Arenas as Combat Dagger. He's a good player with a good combo... he's at 1650 2v2. Does that mean 'combat dagger' is viable?
If a spec doesn't work at end range, then you're doing yourself a dis-service by going with it at lower level. Unless of course, you don't care about your rating... then do whatever you want and have fun, all specs are viable for that.
You can get to 1800 literally, just having AR. All you need.
Hence the point I'm making.
So far we have Shao and Mongoose enjoying shadowstep. The fact that they are 2 of our most active posters make it seems like shadowstep talk is all over the place. While I'm sure both are good players, they aren't playing in the point range where your spec makes or break you yet.
Once S3 starts and people are playing again, then we'll get a good gauge of how good or bad shadowstep actually is - both from shao/mongoose and from the thousands of other rogue's that'll be trying it.
I just think it's a bit too early to put it on the same step as AR/Prep, Combat Mace or even Mutilate yet.
So far we have Shao and Mongoose enjoying shadowstep. The fact that they are 2 of our most active posters make it seems like shadowstep talk is all over the place. While I'm sure both are good players, they aren't playing in the point range where your spec makes or break you yet.
Once S3 starts and people are playing again, then we'll get a good gauge of how good or bad shadowstep actually is - both from shao/mongoose and from the thousands of other rogue's that'll be trying it.
I just think it's a bit too early to put it on the same step as AR/Prep, Combat Mace or even Mutilate yet.
I actually only think it will find validity in 5s.
I just don't see it being as useful in 2s and 3s.
I just don't see it being as useful in 2s and 3s.
Quote:
Might as well be.
I'm fairly confident I could get a team in the 1600-1700 as a Mutilate Rogue (I did get to 1901 as one in S1)... does that mean Mutilate is fine? icon
I'm fairly confident I could get a team in the 1600-1700 as a Mutilate Rogue (I did get to 1901 as one in S1)... does that mean Mutilate is fine? icon
True, but the OP clearly stated he wanted a BG spec, and that Arenas were not an issue.
What's a bg spec anyway?
You could run with pants on your head duel wielding fishes and ultimately do fine in BGs :P.
The team you get paired with (and against) is much more important your gear and spec.
You could run with pants on your head duel wielding fishes and ultimately do fine in BGs :P.
The team you get paired with (and against) is much more important your gear and spec.
The guy said he didn't want to do Arena. Why is this so hard to understand?
Mutilate does fine in BG's because it's not a cooldown reliant spec. In BG's you go from opponent to opponent killing them. No luxury of a cooldown reset like you get in Arena.
So "what's a BG spec?" Let me rephrase it for you. Depending on a 5 minute AR cooldown and a 10 minute Prep cooldown absolutely BLOWS in BG's. Anyone who is running Battlegrounds exclusively should not be told to spec towards a cooldown reliant spec. That's just stupid.
Mutilate does fine in BG's because it's not a cooldown reliant spec. In BG's you go from opponent to opponent killing them. No luxury of a cooldown reset like you get in Arena.
So "what's a BG spec?" Let me rephrase it for you. Depending on a 5 minute AR cooldown and a 10 minute Prep cooldown absolutely BLOWS in BG's. Anyone who is running Battlegrounds exclusively should not be told to spec towards a cooldown reliant spec. That's just stupid.
this current discussion is exactly what worries me.
I will most likely go shadowstep because I hate being kited so much, plus I've had a long day and I hate the F***in' Eagles man!
I will most likely go shadowstep because I hate being kited so much, plus I've had a long day and I hate the F***in' Eagles man!
Vvillain wrote:
The guy said he didn't want to do Arena. Why is this so hard to understand?
Mutilate does fine in BG's because it's not a cooldown reliant spec. In BG's you go from opponent to opponent killing them. No luxury of a cooldown reset like you get in Arena.
So "what's a BG spec?" Let me rephrase it for you. Depending on a 5 minute AR cooldown and a 10 minute Prep cooldown absolutely BLOWS in BG's. Anyone who is running Battlegrounds exclusively should not be told to spec towards a cooldown reliant spec. That's just stupid.
Mutilate does fine in BG's because it's not a cooldown reliant spec. In BG's you go from opponent to opponent killing them. No luxury of a cooldown reset like you get in Arena.
So "what's a BG spec?" Let me rephrase it for you. Depending on a 5 minute AR cooldown and a 10 minute Prep cooldown absolutely BLOWS in BG's. Anyone who is running Battlegrounds exclusively should not be told to spec towards a cooldown reliant spec. That's just stupid.
Apparently 3:30 Sprint, Vanish, and Evasion is to much waiting.
Whatever...
It's just gay as hell that people around here make the assumption that what's good for a 2000+ rated Arena rogue is good for a rogue who just wants to run BG's.
It's just gay as hell that people around here make the assumption that what's good for a 2000+ rated Arena rogue is good for a rogue who just wants to run BG's.
Vvillain wrote:
Whatever...
It's just gay as hell that people around here make the assumption that what's good for a 2000+ rated Arena rogue is good for a rogue who just wants to run BG's.
It's just gay as hell that people around here make the assumption that what's good for a 2000+ rated Arena rogue is good for a rogue who just wants to run BG's.
So by your definition, what is good for a 2k rogue is bad for a rogue in BG's?
Quote:
The guy said he didn't want to do Arena. Why is this so hard to understand?
Maybe because he DIDN'T say that?
What he said was that he wanted to pvp. Which would involve a lot of BG and low level arena at the start.
Quote:
So "what's a BG spec?" Let me rephrase it for you. Depending on a 5 minute AR cooldown and a 10 minute Prep cooldown absolutely BLOWS in BG's. Anyone who is running Battlegrounds exclusively should not be told to spec towards a cooldown reliant spec. That's just stupid.
I do more then fine as 31/30 in BG really. The fact that I'm not stuck with a positional attack that's nerfed really bad by Resilience (A stats even low geared people are starting to stack - and this will only keep going. It's not like you never see full merc people in BG) really helps there. The reason why Combat was better then Muti also apply as to why AR/Prep is better then muti... before you consider AR and Prep as abilities themselves.
Beside... it's not like 2 sprint isn't good for WSG, which last time I checked, was a battleground.
If I were in the OP's situation and didn't want to go AR/Prep, I'd go shadowstep over Muti. ShS might or might not work in Arena, but I have little doubt it'll rule in BGs if only because of all the crazy stuns it allows you to pull.
"OP" wants to pvp, which is to say OP wants to be able to kill other players. If mut is dead because even scrubs have resilience, so be it.
bg spec? i personally love
shadowstep
ar/prep
sf fists
mutilate
30-0-31 daggers
CB-hemo
full combat not-daggers
thats a lot isnt it? thats because anything with all 61 points spent, a rogue will excel in bgs... which bg is the only difference
while shadowstep is sick at wsg, ar/prep is better for basin, while mutilate is better for AV
or what u like to fight... dont go muti to kill plate, dont go full combat to kill anti-rogue classes
its all very open for you to use
shadowstep
ar/prep
sf fists
mutilate
30-0-31 daggers
CB-hemo
full combat not-daggers
thats a lot isnt it? thats because anything with all 61 points spent, a rogue will excel in bgs... which bg is the only difference
while shadowstep is sick at wsg, ar/prep is better for basin, while mutilate is better for AV
or what u like to fight... dont go muti to kill plate, dont go full combat to kill anti-rogue classes
its all very open for you to use
mongoosexcore wrote:
or what u like to fight... dont go muti to kill plate, dont go full combat to kill anti-rogue classes
This just goes back to the "Rogues have stealth for a reason" argument. Arena killed that in a lot of ways because we don't have the option of picking our fights. So everyone goes mad raving about which spec can pull off the "jack of all trades" needs.
These forums are great because they advise you on the kind of specs that do work in 2000+ arena forums. That doesn't mean that because Neilyo or whoever uses Ar/prep it is God's own word and you have to use it too. It just shows that it is viable at the 2000+ ratings.
Just don't be a ******, spec Ar/Prep and run around with a fishing pole expecting results.
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