By now, you guys know I'm not really good at WoW math. But I know some of you are really good with it. I saw the new badge rewards and noticed some items contain + haste rating. Now I know that for a raiding frost mage spell hit> +dmg > Crit but where does spell haste fit?
How much spell haste = 1 +dmg ? ( i guess more info might be needed but say on a frostbolt with + 1000 spell damage in a frost build
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Llane&n=Marcolaroche)
Also, is there a negative impact (as in not total benefit) in regards to +dmg since my cast time will be shorter?
I will look up the wiki for info and see if I can find it there.
Thanks,
Laroche
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 1:15pm by Laroche
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Haste ratingFollow
I have not seen/done the math for how much it increases, from what I have seen whatever % it amkes your cast faster I believey ou can add that % to your dps. so if I do 900dps, +2% would be around 18 more dps. To answer your second question, I do not believe that a coefficient is placed when you use spellhaste to get a faster cast time, could be wrong though.
Quote:
I do not believe that a coefficient is placed when you use spellhaste to get a faster cast time
I think you're right on this... otherwise my 1/2 cast time MSD procs would have less +spell damage, and they seem to hit just as hard as my normal casts. (Unless MSD is something other than a 50% haste for 1 spell, which would the the rational programmatic approach).
I have Quagmirran's Eye and it increases my haste rating by 320 for 6 seconds (chance on hit). Only thing I have noticed that it does is make me cast faster. Faster cast = more spells = more DPS.
spell damage is spell damage, spell haste is spell haste. I do not think comparing an apple with an orange is ok, its not like we are talking hit, crit and damage here where they are interrelated and have to coexsist on mages.
spell haste simply put allows you cast faster. 17.6 is 1% or so if I remember correctly. What spell haste does is increase your damage per second. Your spells still hit as hard as previously (unless you dropped a ton of spell damage for the haste) but you take less time to complete casting. The benefits come out in the long run over fights that take more than 5 mins to complete.
This is why MSD would improve dps by around 5% and the Quag eye trinket would do so for around 2%. And with any form of spell haste, you will notice your blue stuff running out much faster than previously.
spell haste simply put allows you cast faster. 17.6 is 1% or so if I remember correctly. What spell haste does is increase your damage per second. Your spells still hit as hard as previously (unless you dropped a ton of spell damage for the haste) but you take less time to complete casting. The benefits come out in the long run over fights that take more than 5 mins to complete.
This is why MSD would improve dps by around 5% and the Quag eye trinket would do so for around 2%. And with any form of spell haste, you will notice your blue stuff running out much faster than previously.
The real question here is why are you pretending at the "raiding frost mage" thing, you are doing nothing but gimping yourself, and your raid like that.
Before anyone spouts off with the all encompassing "It's my $14.99 a month and I can play how I like bit" in a 25 man raid it is our $359.76 and we think you're retarded.
Please, don't be frost in raids, we aren't in Molten Core anymore Toto.
Before anyone spouts off with the all encompassing "It's my $14.99 a month and I can play how I like bit" in a 25 man raid it is our $359.76 and we think you're retarded.
Please, don't be frost in raids, we aren't in Molten Core anymore Toto.
Spell Haste is one of the most fun and awesome stats. It has a downside, though. It doesn't increase DPM, only DPS. Your damage per second will be higher, but so will your mana usage.
Also, lemme add:
http://wiki.shadowpriest.com/index.php?title=SimulationCraft/Scaling/Mage
I linked that a while back, and last time I checked it was out of date for 2.3, but it's still helpful.
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 8:46pm by Poldaran
Also, lemme add:
http://wiki.shadowpriest.com/index.php?title=SimulationCraft/Scaling/Mage
I linked that a while back, and last time I checked it was out of date for 2.3, but it's still helpful.
Edited, Nov 20th 2007 8:46pm by Poldaran
Warlord Filterspawn wrote:
The real question here is why are you pretending at the "raiding frost mage" thing, you are doing nothing but gimping yourself, and your raid like that.
Before anyone spouts off with the all encompassing "It's my $14.99 a month and I can play how I like bit" in a 25 man raid it is our $359.76 and we think you're retarded.
Please, don't be frost in raids, we aren't in Molten Core anymore Toto.
Before anyone spouts off with the all encompassing "It's my $14.99 a month and I can play how I like bit" in a 25 man raid it is our $359.76 and we think you're retarded.
Please, don't be frost in raids, we aren't in Molten Core anymore Toto.
I have to agree, with the couple fights that are fire-immune (al'ar + illidan I believe has some moments) it isn't worth respeccing from fire to frost. The dps difference at least should be large if the mages are properly geared. For the people that say they keep up with or surpass the other fire mages I am hoping that there is a gear differential, a wrath of air totem, or something of that sort in your favor. I do about 150 more dps as fire than I did as frost.
If you are fire, and a mob is fire immune (which is rare these days) pew pew Arcane Blast.
Warlord Filterspawn wrote:
Please, don't be frost in raids, we aren't in Blackwing Lair anymore Toto.
Fixed. MC(as far as bosses go, at least) was actually pretty friendly to fire mages so long as you had Curse of Elements.
Quote:
The real question here is why are you pretending at the "raiding frost mage" thing, you are doing nothing but gimping yourself, and your raid like that.
Hmmm...I would say that it has a bit to do with the raid itself. There are a lot of factors that go into spec, and I have a very hard time telling someone that if they don't play the way I do, then they are 'pretending'. If you are in a hard-core raiding guild, fine. Do what you want to do, but frost mages can put out decent DPS, and if your guild is a more casual raiding guild (some of us don't care to wipe on the BT bosses 55 times in 1 night) and you like doing guild PvP or solo PvP, or other non-raid PvE, then you should not be required to be 10/48/3.
If I were in a guild the required me to be 1 specific spec, I'd tell them where they could go in a heartbeat. Now, if they wanted to 'help' me work on my spec/damage potential, and that sort of thing, then that is all well and good.
A case in point is where we are in my guild. I came from a guild that was in SSC and went to a guild that had only downed Prince once. I respecced deep arcane for the threat reduction to do more damage because I couldn't do as much damage as deep fire and stay under the aggro generation of the tank. Not everyone falls into that cookie cutter type of mindset (e.g. you must be fire to raid and if you aren't you are hurting the raid/guild).
Quote:
Not everyone falls into that cookie cutter type of mindset (e.g. you must be fire to raid and if you aren't you are hurting the raid/guild).
You know, you had a good post, until you spouted off with this garbage. I simply stated, that fire > frost in raids for damage output. It isn't a mindset, it is a cold, hard fact.
Our mages spec for max damage, without having to be told to. Our guy with 2 piece T5, he is Arcane, us other two are fire, as that's where we get the most bang for our buck.
Also, it doesn't matter what "factors" you try to dress it up with. The OP said "raiding frost mage" and that is what I addressed. You just speculate, I'm dealing with what's presented here.
Fire > frost for damage, end of story.
Quote:
Fire > frost for damage, end of story.
That fact is true. I am saying that you can be frost and raid. I agree you won't do as much damage as fire. I understand where you are coming from with your post. I am accepting the fact that people don't all like to play fire mages. That is a fact, and it also shows that people aren't completely logical. Not all people will spec for max damage because they don't want to play a fire mage, or because they want to PvP once in a while with a spec that doesn't get totally pwned. I was only reacting to your statement:
Quote:
The real question here is why are you pretending at the "raiding frost mage" thing, you are doing nothing but gimping yourself, and your raid like that.
I understand that they won't do as much damage in their raid as they would if they were the 10/48/3 spec. If that person enjoyed PvP, should they not raid? Or should they respec before every raid? I do know guilds that do that (serious raiding guild that loves PvP. People spec whatever they want M-TH, but F-Sun your butt belongs to the guild in your max damage spec). If you are in a casual raiding guild, I see no reason to say that they are pretending to raid because they are frost.
Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree.
Sorry to the OP... I did not intend to hijack your thread.
Edited, Nov 21st 2007 11:32am by ktangent
That's fine, I do see your points though. One last thing, During the week, I am fire, for raids, Sunday, back to frost for arena.
Twice a week respecs 4tw!
Twice a week respecs 4tw!
Quote:
That's fine, I do see your points though. One last thing, During the week, I am fire, for raids, Sunday, back to frost for arena.
Twice a week respecs 4tw!
Twice a week respecs 4tw!
Having a life outside of WoW and not having time to respec twice a week FTW!
Well for 1, I am a in a casual guild that let's people spec the way they want, as long as they help the guild. We are currently clearing Kara and Gruul.
I agree that fire does more damage. However, not 150 DPS extra. I don't usually top the chart in DPS but last Kara, I did manage to finish first.
I don't really care that you think I'm pretending. I don't feel that I'm gimping the raid currently and until I'm too low in DPS, I will remain frost.
Being frost allows me to go all out DPS and not worry about my aggro. My frost spells are easier to control the aggro on.
Also, in a lot of fights, I can take care of debuffs myself with iceblock (ex Moroes garrote) which helps the raid savings the healers time and mana. You are being very narrow minded in thinking that DPS is the only thing that has an effect on the fights. You prob. think shadow priests are a wasted DPS slot because you out-DPS them, not thinking of all the mana they give back. You seem to forget a lot of variables in your childish analysis. I'm not against a fire spec and actually looked at it. I simply prefer frost.
To proactively head it off, we don't need a rebuttal on how a person can maintain a normal life while earning enough gold doing dailies to be able to afford to respec twice per week. That topic has been beaten to death, and one needs not defend him/herself. Just ignore it.
From reading at ElitistJerks (made an account but didn't post anything, the place is crazy-smart), I can see that spell haste can really help out in DPS in a raid situation where mana is no problem.
However, they didn't address its mana problem. Their raid situations were when there is a Shadow Priest in the mages' party, and a paladin has put on Judgement of Wisdom, which has huge bonuses that some raids completely overlook.
Outside of these endless mana situations, you'll find that while Crit/Hit/Damage gives you more damage for your mana, Haste simply gives you the same amount of damage faster, which helps if you have to burn down your enemy faster, but it's not really helping the same way the others do.
Haste will also make you overcome the tank's aggro faster, so if you don't have a well-geared tank, stacking up haste will prove to harm you more than help.
Since you're a casual raiding guild doing Karazhan, there's a possible chance that you may not have a Shadow Priest in your group every run, or you may not have a Paladin who can safely run in and use Judgment of Wisdom every so often, or you may not have a tank who can hold aggro like it's nobody's business. In such a scenario, Haste will hardly help the way that Hit, Crit, and Damage will.
For weighting the worth of different stats against each other, critical things matter, including how much of each stat do you already have, what talents do you have, and what content you are doing. Haste will help by the time you do TK.
From reading at ElitistJerks (made an account but didn't post anything, the place is crazy-smart), I can see that spell haste can really help out in DPS in a raid situation where mana is no problem.
However, they didn't address its mana problem. Their raid situations were when there is a Shadow Priest in the mages' party, and a paladin has put on Judgement of Wisdom, which has huge bonuses that some raids completely overlook.
Outside of these endless mana situations, you'll find that while Crit/Hit/Damage gives you more damage for your mana, Haste simply gives you the same amount of damage faster, which helps if you have to burn down your enemy faster, but it's not really helping the same way the others do.
Haste will also make you overcome the tank's aggro faster, so if you don't have a well-geared tank, stacking up haste will prove to harm you more than help.
Since you're a casual raiding guild doing Karazhan, there's a possible chance that you may not have a Shadow Priest in your group every run, or you may not have a Paladin who can safely run in and use Judgment of Wisdom every so often, or you may not have a tank who can hold aggro like it's nobody's business. In such a scenario, Haste will hardly help the way that Hit, Crit, and Damage will.
For weighting the worth of different stats against each other, critical things matter, including how much of each stat do you already have, what talents do you have, and what content you are doing. Haste will help by the time you do TK.
Raglu wrote:
To proactively head it off, we don't need a rebuttal on how a person can maintain a normal life while earning enough gold doing dailies to be able to afford to respec twice per week. That topic has been beaten to death, and one needs not defend him/herself. Just ignore it.
From reading at ElitistJerks (made an account but didn't post anything, the place is crazy-smart), I can see that spell haste can really help out in DPS in a raid situation where mana is no problem.
However, they didn't address its mana problem. Their raid situations were when there is a Shadow Priest in the mages' party, and a paladin has put on Judgement of Wisdom, which has huge bonuses that some raids completely overlook.
Outside of these endless mana situations, you'll find that while Crit/Hit/Damage gives you more damage for your mana, Haste simply gives you the same amount of damage faster, which helps if you have to burn down your enemy faster, but it's not really helping the same way the others do.
Haste will also make you overcome the tank's aggro faster, so if you don't have a well-geared tank, stacking up haste will prove to harm you more than help.
Since you're a casual raiding guild doing Karazhan, there's a possible chance that you may not have a Shadow Priest in your group every run, or you may not have a Paladin who can safely run in and use Judgment of Wisdom every so often, or you may not have a tank who can hold aggro like it's nobody's business. In such a scenario, Haste will hardly help the way that Hit, Crit, and Damage will.
For weighting the worth of different stats against each other, critical things matter, including how much of each stat do you already have, what talents do you have, and what content you are doing. Haste will help by the time you do TK.
From reading at ElitistJerks (made an account but didn't post anything, the place is crazy-smart), I can see that spell haste can really help out in DPS in a raid situation where mana is no problem.
However, they didn't address its mana problem. Their raid situations were when there is a Shadow Priest in the mages' party, and a paladin has put on Judgement of Wisdom, which has huge bonuses that some raids completely overlook.
Outside of these endless mana situations, you'll find that while Crit/Hit/Damage gives you more damage for your mana, Haste simply gives you the same amount of damage faster, which helps if you have to burn down your enemy faster, but it's not really helping the same way the others do.
Haste will also make you overcome the tank's aggro faster, so if you don't have a well-geared tank, stacking up haste will prove to harm you more than help.
Since you're a casual raiding guild doing Karazhan, there's a possible chance that you may not have a Shadow Priest in your group every run, or you may not have a Paladin who can safely run in and use Judgment of Wisdom every so often, or you may not have a tank who can hold aggro like it's nobody's business. In such a scenario, Haste will hardly help the way that Hit, Crit, and Damage will.
For weighting the worth of different stats against each other, critical things matter, including how much of each stat do you already have, what talents do you have, and what content you are doing. Haste will help by the time you do TK.
Thanks for the input and information Raglu.
And to all others for your input, even Filterspawn.
Even though you said to ignore it, I can't, if I did people would wonder where the real Filter went...
I work an average of 12 hours a day, it starts at 530 AM. I have a wife, and three children. I have friends. I raid, twice a week, I also do arena. I log probably 10 hours a week, tops.
Yet I still somehow manage to fund two epic birds, multiple crafted epics, consumables for raids AND twice a week respecs.
So please, do not try to justify your lazyness and/or shortcomings in a game by spouting off with the "I have a life" bit. So do I, and I would wager it's much busier than yours is.
As far as you feeling you are not gimping the raid, that's fine, but there will come a point where it doesn't matter what you think, it's the simple truth. You may be able to get away with it, but someone else will have to pick up the slack.
As for me being "narrow minded" and "forgetting variables" I'll have to toss the elitist prick card and all that mess. How far have you been in Hyjal and Black Temple? My guild clears Hyjal and is wrapping up BT soon, trust me, I know wtf I'm talking about, prick or otherwise.
Quote:
Having a life outside of WoW and not having time to respec twice a week FTW!
I work an average of 12 hours a day, it starts at 530 AM. I have a wife, and three children. I have friends. I raid, twice a week, I also do arena. I log probably 10 hours a week, tops.
Yet I still somehow manage to fund two epic birds, multiple crafted epics, consumables for raids AND twice a week respecs.
So please, do not try to justify your lazyness and/or shortcomings in a game by spouting off with the "I have a life" bit. So do I, and I would wager it's much busier than yours is.
As far as you feeling you are not gimping the raid, that's fine, but there will come a point where it doesn't matter what you think, it's the simple truth. You may be able to get away with it, but someone else will have to pick up the slack.
As for me being "narrow minded" and "forgetting variables" I'll have to toss the elitist prick card and all that mess. How far have you been in Hyjal and Black Temple? My guild clears Hyjal and is wrapping up BT soon, trust me, I know wtf I'm talking about, prick or otherwise.
Raglu wrote:
Haste will also make you overcome the tank's aggro faster, so if you don't have a well-geared tank, stacking up haste will prove to harm you more than help.
To be fair, every DPS increasing stat will do this, not just haste.
pre TK you are really free to spec what ever you like.
Frost spells do not have a threat modifier, they only seem to do so cos they hit less per bolt. I had been playing with 10/48/3 since I was 70 and I hardly have that kind of problem unless the tank is a clutz. When that happens I just hold off dpsing, that only helps when the tank has a threat meter. (Why do u even pve with no threat meter nowadays?)
we have several mages in the guild who are actively raiding. Prior to downing VR, quite a few were frost and the rest were either 40/0/21 or some other spec. The only 10/48/3 was me. Just last night alone, I realised all 5 of the mages were fire at Gruul. I have a rather crappy frame rate when we start doing anything that involved more than 5 people spamming stuff on the screen (the sub 10 fps kind) while I did not top the meter (A rogue did that, bless his soul the dude is leet) and the CL actually beat the rest of us I was putting up numbers that were respectible and the dps came in at around 700. The general idea is that if you are serious about your slot in the raid then having a spec that actually provides the efficiency is your own mission.
The problem just compounds when you attempt to do time sensitive bosses which are dps races, without 65kdps to 70kdps from the whole raid Gruul will not go down before he becomes untankable. VR is even more time sensitive and you only got 10 mins to kill him there is no other way around him. I will not go into the other fights where you need to get to a certain phase by how long or the raid wipes due to OOM healers. PvE may look to be cheesecake but its not just about knowing how a boss works or otherwise there will not be people who still wipe at Curator and have no idea why they cannot kill him when countless other guilds are doing it.
There are a lot of mages on our guild who do not get invites and that is probably because our CL is not interested in bring someone who is going to just beat the tank due to speccing for something that is not optimum for raiding. Its the nature of the beast. If you arena then you need to sort out respeccing for raid as arena is your own personal thing. BTW if you complain the CL will just say you are not specced for it sorry I am taking the other guy who is or you can respec.
Tanks spec prot to tank, why force em?
Frost spells do not have a threat modifier, they only seem to do so cos they hit less per bolt. I had been playing with 10/48/3 since I was 70 and I hardly have that kind of problem unless the tank is a clutz. When that happens I just hold off dpsing, that only helps when the tank has a threat meter. (Why do u even pve with no threat meter nowadays?)
we have several mages in the guild who are actively raiding. Prior to downing VR, quite a few were frost and the rest were either 40/0/21 or some other spec. The only 10/48/3 was me. Just last night alone, I realised all 5 of the mages were fire at Gruul. I have a rather crappy frame rate when we start doing anything that involved more than 5 people spamming stuff on the screen (the sub 10 fps kind) while I did not top the meter (A rogue did that, bless his soul the dude is leet) and the CL actually beat the rest of us I was putting up numbers that were respectible and the dps came in at around 700. The general idea is that if you are serious about your slot in the raid then having a spec that actually provides the efficiency is your own mission.
The problem just compounds when you attempt to do time sensitive bosses which are dps races, without 65kdps to 70kdps from the whole raid Gruul will not go down before he becomes untankable. VR is even more time sensitive and you only got 10 mins to kill him there is no other way around him. I will not go into the other fights where you need to get to a certain phase by how long or the raid wipes due to OOM healers. PvE may look to be cheesecake but its not just about knowing how a boss works or otherwise there will not be people who still wipe at Curator and have no idea why they cannot kill him when countless other guilds are doing it.
There are a lot of mages on our guild who do not get invites and that is probably because our CL is not interested in bring someone who is going to just beat the tank due to speccing for something that is not optimum for raiding. Its the nature of the beast. If you arena then you need to sort out respeccing for raid as arena is your own personal thing. BTW if you complain the CL will just say you are not specced for it sorry I am taking the other guy who is or you can respec.
Tanks spec prot to tank, why force em?
I have to agree with Filter+Pold+cancerous here,
When it comes down to it, Mages are there for DPS, it is our job to do the most dps that we can while staying below the tank's threat level, we also must maintain our CC when we are required to. When a guild begins to transfer from Kara+Gruul (EZ Mode) to raids that require everyone to be working in unison with full consumables to do the most dps, one is indeed gimping themselves if they do not spec to be the best DPSer that they can. I used to think, "I love being frost, I never want to change" but when I started reading the theorycrafted numbers, and knew what a difference being a 10/48/3 mage was (including proper gear, etc) then it became obvious. It doesn't matter if you are leading the charts, some fights you will, some you won't, but just because you are leading the charts as frost, it doesn't mean that you couldn't be leading them by even more than you currently are.
As to the whole PvE/PvP argument. I don't arena, I have yet to do even a single skirmish, but I ran WSG last night with some guildies and lead the board in killing blows and second in damage done as 10/48/3 in mostly PvE gear (just threw on some of my higher stamina pieces). It can be done, but I definitely would not recommend it for arenas. The only argument that I could see is if you are still doing arena in FSW gear then it is a pain to transfer between Spellfire/FSW and respec (costs about 200g each time) which can get expensive, but if that is not an issue I do not see why 40g or 50g (easily done within 30 minutes of dailies in a single day) is an issue when a guild is trying to progress.
Edited, Nov 22nd 2007 10:04am by Anobix
When it comes down to it, Mages are there for DPS, it is our job to do the most dps that we can while staying below the tank's threat level, we also must maintain our CC when we are required to. When a guild begins to transfer from Kara+Gruul (EZ Mode) to raids that require everyone to be working in unison with full consumables to do the most dps, one is indeed gimping themselves if they do not spec to be the best DPSer that they can. I used to think, "I love being frost, I never want to change" but when I started reading the theorycrafted numbers, and knew what a difference being a 10/48/3 mage was (including proper gear, etc) then it became obvious. It doesn't matter if you are leading the charts, some fights you will, some you won't, but just because you are leading the charts as frost, it doesn't mean that you couldn't be leading them by even more than you currently are.
As to the whole PvE/PvP argument. I don't arena, I have yet to do even a single skirmish, but I ran WSG last night with some guildies and lead the board in killing blows and second in damage done as 10/48/3 in mostly PvE gear (just threw on some of my higher stamina pieces). It can be done, but I definitely would not recommend it for arenas. The only argument that I could see is if you are still doing arena in FSW gear then it is a pain to transfer between Spellfire/FSW and respec (costs about 200g each time) which can get expensive, but if that is not an issue I do not see why 40g or 50g (easily done within 30 minutes of dailies in a single day) is an issue when a guild is trying to progress.
Edited, Nov 22nd 2007 10:04am by Anobix
Quote:
My guild clears Hyjal and is wrapping up BT soon, trust me, I know wtf I'm talking about, prick or otherwise.
Gratz! Most guilds will never go beyond Kara. I think it is awesome you guys have progressed that far.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Raglu wrote:
Haste will also make you overcome the tank's aggro faster, so if you don't have a well-geared tank, stacking up haste will prove to harm you more than help.
To be fair, every DPS increasing stat will do this, not just haste.
Sorry, yeah, my post wasn't as objective as I'd like to have written.
Hit, Crit, and Spell Damage increase Damage Per Second, and Damage Per Mana.
Haste increases Damage Per Second.
Edit:
Also, with Judgment of Wrath on, substantial Haste Rating will also potentially increase Damage Per Mana, because JoW is not a normalized PPM, but is a flat percent chance. In addition, enough Haste Rating will be able to perhaps change your spell rotation, generally for the better. This could be such as fitting in an additional Fireball between your re-Scorching for keeping the debuff up. That is, if you were a fire mage.
Edited, Nov 22nd 2007 1:45pm by Raglu
Haste rating does not effect the damage coefficents (just like reduction in cast time via talents doesn't).
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/p6/#post553537
Hit versus haste versus crit from a pure DPS perspective. Doesn't take into account mana efficiency, though, which crit helps (both because it's more damage per mana, and because you get the return from MoE) but haste doesn't (only more dps).
As for comparing that to +dmg, my guess would be that +dmg is still better than haste, but that's generally not an issue (it's more likely you'll run into hit/crit versus haste).
EDIT: Blue is hit, pink haste, yellow crit.
Edited, Nov 28th 2007 10:09pm by lsfreak
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/p6/#post553537
Hit versus haste versus crit from a pure DPS perspective. Doesn't take into account mana efficiency, though, which crit helps (both because it's more damage per mana, and because you get the return from MoE) but haste doesn't (only more dps).
As for comparing that to +dmg, my guess would be that +dmg is still better than haste, but that's generally not an issue (it's more likely you'll run into hit/crit versus haste).
EDIT: Blue is hit, pink haste, yellow crit.
Edited, Nov 28th 2007 10:09pm by lsfreak
lsfreak wrote:
Haste rating does not effect the damage coefficents (just like reduction in cast time via talents doesn't).
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/p6/#post553537
Hit versus haste versus crit from a pure DPS perspective. Doesn't take into account mana efficiency, though, which crit helps (both because it's more damage per mana, and because you get the return from MoE) but haste doesn't (only more dps).
As for comparing that to +dmg, my guess would be that +dmg is still better than haste, but that's generally not an issue (it's more likely you'll run into hit/crit versus haste).
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/p6/#post553537
Hit versus haste versus crit from a pure DPS perspective. Doesn't take into account mana efficiency, though, which crit helps (both because it's more damage per mana, and because you get the return from MoE) but haste doesn't (only more dps).
As for comparing that to +dmg, my guess would be that +dmg is still better than haste, but that's generally not an issue (it's more likely you'll run into hit/crit versus haste).
I am assuming that you are linking to the post with the graph, I can't tell what each of the values/lines are. Do you know?
Anobix wrote:
lsfreak wrote:
Haste rating does not effect the damage coefficents (just like reduction in cast time via talents doesn't).
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/p6/#post553537
Hit versus haste versus crit from a pure DPS perspective. Doesn't take into account mana efficiency, though, which crit helps (both because it's more damage per mana, and because you get the return from MoE) but haste doesn't (only more dps).
As for comparing that to +dmg, my guess would be that +dmg is still better than haste, but that's generally not an issue (it's more likely you'll run into hit/crit versus haste).
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/p6/#post553537
Hit versus haste versus crit from a pure DPS perspective. Doesn't take into account mana efficiency, though, which crit helps (both because it's more damage per mana, and because you get the return from MoE) but haste doesn't (only more dps).
As for comparing that to +dmg, my guess would be that +dmg is still better than haste, but that's generally not an issue (it's more likely you'll run into hit/crit versus haste).
I am assuming that you are linking to the post with the graph, I can't tell what each of the values/lines are. Do you know?
It is kinda hard to read, and I'm currently getting a database error so I can't look at it(I took a glance at it before leaving for work) but it seems that the blue line is hit rating. I'd have to math out the others, but the graph definitely needs a better legend.
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