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- Easier... or too easy?
Easier... or too easy?Follow
Well, WoW is already the easiest MMO game in existence, so why not just keep up the trend. End-Game is easy, PvP is easy, PvE is easy and now leveling is easy. Eh, at least they stay consistent.
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Well, WoW is already the easiest MMO game in existence, so why not just keep up the trend. End-Game is easy, PvP is easy, PvE is easy and now leveling is easy. Eh, at least they stay consistent.
Arbitrarily adding hurdles like exp-loss on death, a larger number of experience before leveling, and forced grouping to level doesn't make a game more difficult, only more tedious. Difficulty relates to your abilities as a gamer, not to your ability to tolerate an infinite amount of tediousness.
Lorimath wrote:
Arbitrarily adding hurdles like exp-loss on death, a larger number of experience before leveling, and forced grouping to level doesn't make a game more difficult, only more tedious. Difficulty relates to your abilities as a gamer, not to your ability to tolerate an infinite amount of tediousness.
Avoiding xp-loss on death is a matter of skill. Don't die. Forced grouping? Never played a game with truly forced grouping to level. I assume you mean FFXI.
Anyone, and I mean anyone can level to 70 in WoW. People who are too retarded to tie their own shoelaces can level to 70 in WoW. Put any of them in Eve, and you wouldn't see them after the first week. Put them in D&D Online, and they would perish. But in WoW? They can succeed. Why? Because it is way too easy, and require almost no skill to play.
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Put them in D&D Online, and they would perish.
Hehe, my fighter could only jump 3cm and drowned when he fell in the sewer in the beta.
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Anyone, and I mean anyone can level to 70 in WoW. People who are too retarded to tie their own shoelaces can level to 70 in WoW. Put any of them in Eve, and you wouldn't see them after the first week. Put them in D&D Online, and they would perish. But in WoW? They can succeed. Why? Because it is way too easy, and require almost no skill to play.
I agree that leveling is mindless and so easy that anyone can do it. But i dont even consider the lvl 1-70 grind a part of the actual game anymore, I more or less consider it as a prerequisite to having fun in instances.
I dont want to have to work as hard leveling my alts as i did my main. Who would? this game is all about the upper levels.. at first 1-40 really did not mean squat. then when many folks had lvl 60's 1-50 did not mean squat, then when the expansion came out 1-60 did not mean squat. and once again when the third expansion releases 1-70 wont mean squat.
So instead of having to DRAG a new character through every level they make it much easier to level past the crap that does not even matter anymore that way you can get to some actual "living" content in the game.
But one thing is for sure. in end game content this game is tops. and that is where the skill comes into play.
Oh it's not that I mind leveling 1-60 has become easier. My own alts will enjoy that, and I'm sure many others don't mind having their alts growing stronger relatively fast.
I merely pointed out how easy it already was, before this patch. Mashing your keyboard randomly would gain you a level pre-40, and after that it was just a repetition of skills. Personally, I prefer a challenge, which is probably why I play Eve when I don't play WoW.
I merely pointed out how easy it already was, before this patch. Mashing your keyboard randomly would gain you a level pre-40, and after that it was just a repetition of skills. Personally, I prefer a challenge, which is probably why I play Eve when I don't play WoW.
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Actually, removing hurdles such as those does make it alot easier. I don't consider any of the above (except maybe higher amounts of xp to level) tedious. I consider them consequences for stupid actions. In WoW, there is no consequence to being stupid, except that you might have to pay a repairbill once in a while. Threat assessment, situation control, knowledge of the world around you and so on are all indicators of skill.
XP loss for death discourages exploration. It discourages risk taking and innovation. Yes, it is in part a consequence for mistakes. There are a lot of times, however, when mistakes are unavoidable, or aren't even really mistakes (heartbeat resist on a trap anyone?) Or one person in your 5-man makes a mistake and everyone else pays for it in the xp hit.
XP loss also forces the devs to dumb down the content. How many times do raiding guilds wipe on progression nights? You already hear of people in raiding guilds complaining that it's hard to farm for consumables...now imagine they had to go out and grind for a few hours each week to make up for lost xp.
If the only consequence for failure is a repair bill and the cost of the repairs is nominal as it currently is, it remains incentive for players to win without discouraging them from even trying. It means you can actually have fights where 1 slip by one player can cause a wipe (I've read Archimonde is bad for that).
Back in my FFXI days, I was in a group that was doing some moderate end-game content and on one particular run, they got stomped so bad they all lost half a level worth of xp. A 2 hour encounter that sent them back into the field to grind xp for 4-5 hours minimum to make up what they lost (some of them even de-leveled and were unable to equip a lot of their gear...that's what eventually prompted them to call the fight). That's not fun. That's not a reasonable consequence. That's just an enormous penalty for failure in what is, after all, a game.
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Avoiding xp-loss on death is a matter of skill. Don't die. Forced grouping? Never played a game with truly forced grouping to level. I assume you mean FFXI.
I made it through a full Heroic Slave Pens and 2 badges worth of Heroic Mech tonight and didn't die once. My total repair bill for the evening was just shy of 2 gold. I got lucky. Sometimes **** just happens and skill has nothing to do with it. I used to pride myself on dying very, very seldomly in FFXI for the same reasons you mentioned: don't want to lose xp? Play smart and stay alive. Put xp loss on death into WoW (which I've read used to be the case when the game first came out)? Seeya.
I think that WoW has gotten easy, but not that easy. It would seem that blizzard would like everyone to get to the endgame sooner. I think that this game is really on a great learning curve. It starts off easy enough and when you get to the endgame you find that it's challenging and rewarding.
Now, there really shouldn't be a comparison of this game to FFXI. This game is constantly being cared for while FFXI has more flaws than anyone could imagine. For starters:
FFXI you need a 5-6 man party just to get decent xp/hour vice WoW, you can pratically solo your way to lvl 60 in a matter of a few weeks if not days (depending on how hardcore you are).
FFXI crafting system is...well, it's crap. The only saving grace is that you can make HQs (high quality) gear from it. Compared to WoW's crafting system, you wouldn't even want to bother with it.
I would much rather pay money to get gear repaired than have a memory lapse (lose xp) every time I died trying to explore or test my skills out.
Here's a really good kicker for the ppl that play FFXI: Waiting 3-5 days for a Notorious Monster to pop, only to have another guild bot it away from you. Or better yet, going to an endgame place, that only allows 18 people to attack one monster, yet you have about 25-30 people waiting for someone to die so they can jump in. The raid system in WoW not only lets everyone play and contribute, but no one has that left out feeling and thinking that they just spent 5 hours of thier life doing nothing.
I don't even want to get started on the economy....
Bottom line, WoW is doing great for helping new players learn thier jobs, letting them lvl at a good pace (getting that sense of accomplishment each time they place), and providing endgame players with good endgame content (pvp and pve wise) that is challenging and sometimes addicting.
Edit: I forgot to add that FFXI has two monsters, that have yet to be defeated (one being Absolute Virtue, it has been defeated but only using numerous bugs, now that they have been fixed, no one has defeated it. A freakin year and some change has passed and not one group has taken it down without a glitch. and the Dark Rider with an instant cast death on random players.)
Edited, Nov 21st 2007 9:14am by bravefenceralucard
Now, there really shouldn't be a comparison of this game to FFXI. This game is constantly being cared for while FFXI has more flaws than anyone could imagine. For starters:
FFXI you need a 5-6 man party just to get decent xp/hour vice WoW, you can pratically solo your way to lvl 60 in a matter of a few weeks if not days (depending on how hardcore you are).
FFXI crafting system is...well, it's crap. The only saving grace is that you can make HQs (high quality) gear from it. Compared to WoW's crafting system, you wouldn't even want to bother with it.
I would much rather pay money to get gear repaired than have a memory lapse (lose xp) every time I died trying to explore or test my skills out.
Here's a really good kicker for the ppl that play FFXI: Waiting 3-5 days for a Notorious Monster to pop, only to have another guild bot it away from you. Or better yet, going to an endgame place, that only allows 18 people to attack one monster, yet you have about 25-30 people waiting for someone to die so they can jump in. The raid system in WoW not only lets everyone play and contribute, but no one has that left out feeling and thinking that they just spent 5 hours of thier life doing nothing.
I don't even want to get started on the economy....
Bottom line, WoW is doing great for helping new players learn thier jobs, letting them lvl at a good pace (getting that sense of accomplishment each time they place), and providing endgame players with good endgame content (pvp and pve wise) that is challenging and sometimes addicting.
Edit: I forgot to add that FFXI has two monsters, that have yet to be defeated (one being Absolute Virtue, it has been defeated but only using numerous bugs, now that they have been fixed, no one has defeated it. A freakin year and some change has passed and not one group has taken it down without a glitch. and the Dark Rider with an instant cast death on random players.)
Edited, Nov 21st 2007 9:14am by bravefenceralucard
XP loss for dying?
I've never played any other MMORPG than WoW, so I can't speak for the others. However, I have played many, many, many tabletop RPG's and losing XP for dying runs counter to every single one of them.
You LEARN more by using a skill and then by losing or not knowing something. The first RPG that I recall playing that incorporated this philosophy was Call of Cthulu. If you used a skill, you put a check mark next to it. After the adventure was over (or as often as the Keeper [GM] said) you would roll against the skill again. *IF* you failed the skill roll, you gained 1 point in it. This replicated the idea that you learned something new in your failure. The more you knew (1-20 system) the harder it was to fail on that 'did I learn anything new' roll. Thus it went up slower. This was very effective.
The better rendition of this process was in Pendragon (Authurian tales). It was similar to CoC but failure of the skill was required to place a check on it. Failure of the roll at the end let it go up. It was also a D20 system.
007, Hero System, and many others allowed INCREASED experience for trying something new or hard (not foolhardy or stupid) and generally it was the idea that counted for the XP, not success or failure.
So, to build an MMORPG that docks you XP for trying and dying, well, runs counter to every RPG bone in my body. It's dumb beyond all belief.
The only time you should lose XP should be if you do something to seriously annoy the GM or other players. In WoW, I firmly believe KOA gank campers need to lose XP. I think if you attack anyone lower than 10 levels from you there should be some kind of penalty and XP would be one of them. Another way would be to 'break' something the person is wearing, but this is off topic here.
You should never lose XP for dying. That's just my opinion, and I really don't think it's wrong here.
I've never played any other MMORPG than WoW, so I can't speak for the others. However, I have played many, many, many tabletop RPG's and losing XP for dying runs counter to every single one of them.
You LEARN more by using a skill and then by losing or not knowing something. The first RPG that I recall playing that incorporated this philosophy was Call of Cthulu. If you used a skill, you put a check mark next to it. After the adventure was over (or as often as the Keeper [GM] said) you would roll against the skill again. *IF* you failed the skill roll, you gained 1 point in it. This replicated the idea that you learned something new in your failure. The more you knew (1-20 system) the harder it was to fail on that 'did I learn anything new' roll. Thus it went up slower. This was very effective.
The better rendition of this process was in Pendragon (Authurian tales). It was similar to CoC but failure of the skill was required to place a check on it. Failure of the roll at the end let it go up. It was also a D20 system.
007, Hero System, and many others allowed INCREASED experience for trying something new or hard (not foolhardy or stupid) and generally it was the idea that counted for the XP, not success or failure.
So, to build an MMORPG that docks you XP for trying and dying, well, runs counter to every RPG bone in my body. It's dumb beyond all belief.
The only time you should lose XP should be if you do something to seriously annoy the GM or other players. In WoW, I firmly believe KOA gank campers need to lose XP. I think if you attack anyone lower than 10 levels from you there should be some kind of penalty and XP would be one of them. Another way would be to 'break' something the person is wearing, but this is off topic here.
You should never lose XP for dying. That's just my opinion, and I really don't think it's wrong here.
sloshot wrote:
XP loss for dying?
I've never played any other MMORPG than WoW, so I can't speak for the others. However, I have played many, many, many tabletop RPG's and losing XP for dying runs counter to every single one of them.
So, to build an MMORPG that docks you XP for trying and dying, well, runs counter to every RPG bone in my body. It's dumb beyond all belief.
You should never lose XP for dying. That's just my opinion, and I really don't think it's wrong here.
I've never played any other MMORPG than WoW, so I can't speak for the others. However, I have played many, many, many tabletop RPG's and losing XP for dying runs counter to every single one of them.
So, to build an MMORPG that docks you XP for trying and dying, well, runs counter to every RPG bone in my body. It's dumb beyond all belief.
You should never lose XP for dying. That's just my opinion, and I really don't think it's wrong here.
Welcome to FFXI, the dumbest game in exsistance. I hate turn based games...
I think I played WC3TFT for the...
"I'll confuse the enemy with a human mating call! I'm so wasted, I'm so wasted!"
"I'll confuse the enemy with a human mating call! I'm so wasted, I'm so wasted!"
I have totally mixed emotions about the new leveling after this past weekend's experience.
I don't consider myself to be a hardcore gamer, I'm just totally addicted to WoW. Have been from the git-go. I've never played any other MMORPG, so I have nothing but WoW pre-patch to compare it to. There's my disclaimer.
Since the patch, I really love the fact that me and my many alts don't seem to have to spend what seems like a lifetime getting from level to level. My mage made it up 8 levels with sporadic play time over the turkey day holiday ... even with me cooking the meal and a ridiculous amount of interstate driving to collect children. My (future) shadow priest also gained 5 levels. It was great. I have enough toons to work the rested xp bonus on all of them, and it now seems possible to have a small army of 70's at my disposal at some point before I join AARP. This is great!
BUT.... I've noticed some real disappointments lately.
Just did Stranglethorn Fever with my mage this past weekend. Pre-patch you were hit with 4 (?) waves of 5 gorillas and had to kill/loot Mokk in the last wave. Now it's three waves of 1 gorilla (is that even a wave?). IMHO, they've taken what used to be a challenging, fun quest and turned it into a farce.
Was it easier? Sure! Was it more fun the old way? Definitely. Instead of gimping these once great quests, I would have rather seen them bump up the rewards for quests that actually needed a group to complete. No, not everyone likes to group, but with the new xp per quest, etc, you can easily skip those you don't want to do. If you are inclined to group and do the quest, make the reward better. Just a thought.
Also, I discovered that I'm going to have to do alot more power-leveling of the professions than I used to. I used to acquire tons of cloth for my tailoring just through questing. Now I'm going to have to spend alot more gold or just go out farming. Give to get on that one I suppose. Hardly worth QQ'ing about.
It also seems that if you DO like to group (as we do)you now get a little bored. Granted, we run in a pack of three. Definite over-kill post patch. Not a huge ordeal, we still have a great time. Also, it seems that if you ARE grouped, the drop rates have gone through the floor. We've discovered that as soon as we ungroup the drop rate picks up and we finish the quest in about 3 minutes. Anybody know if this is by design or just our dumb luck???
So yeah, it'll be great to get my alts up to the OL quicker, but it DOES seem like it may be just a bit more of a mindless grind at this point. Quicker yes, but also a little less fun IMHO.
I don't consider myself to be a hardcore gamer, I'm just totally addicted to WoW. Have been from the git-go. I've never played any other MMORPG, so I have nothing but WoW pre-patch to compare it to. There's my disclaimer.
Since the patch, I really love the fact that me and my many alts don't seem to have to spend what seems like a lifetime getting from level to level. My mage made it up 8 levels with sporadic play time over the turkey day holiday ... even with me cooking the meal and a ridiculous amount of interstate driving to collect children. My (future) shadow priest also gained 5 levels. It was great. I have enough toons to work the rested xp bonus on all of them, and it now seems possible to have a small army of 70's at my disposal at some point before I join AARP. This is great!
BUT.... I've noticed some real disappointments lately.
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Lol good point, Ill have to go see what my "tougher" stv quests are like now...
Just did Stranglethorn Fever with my mage this past weekend. Pre-patch you were hit with 4 (?) waves of 5 gorillas and had to kill/loot Mokk in the last wave. Now it's three waves of 1 gorilla (is that even a wave?). IMHO, they've taken what used to be a challenging, fun quest and turned it into a farce.
Was it easier? Sure! Was it more fun the old way? Definitely. Instead of gimping these once great quests, I would have rather seen them bump up the rewards for quests that actually needed a group to complete. No, not everyone likes to group, but with the new xp per quest, etc, you can easily skip those you don't want to do. If you are inclined to group and do the quest, make the reward better. Just a thought.
Also, I discovered that I'm going to have to do alot more power-leveling of the professions than I used to. I used to acquire tons of cloth for my tailoring just through questing. Now I'm going to have to spend alot more gold or just go out farming. Give to get on that one I suppose. Hardly worth QQ'ing about.
It also seems that if you DO like to group (as we do)you now get a little bored. Granted, we run in a pack of three. Definite over-kill post patch. Not a huge ordeal, we still have a great time. Also, it seems that if you ARE grouped, the drop rates have gone through the floor. We've discovered that as soon as we ungroup the drop rate picks up and we finish the quest in about 3 minutes. Anybody know if this is by design or just our dumb luck???
So yeah, it'll be great to get my alts up to the OL quicker, but it DOES seem like it may be just a bit more of a mindless grind at this point. Quicker yes, but also a little less fun IMHO.
Wizardress definitely has a point. One of the huge fun factors of my Hunter was pulling off quests that would be impossible for other classes except possibly Warlocks. Fastpaced, intense fights that stretch on, giving you a real challenge to take on. That was real fun. As it is now, leveling an alt is too easy. No challenge from the harder quests, and thus half the fun is gone.
Lowering time between levels is a good thing. Lowering the challenge is not.
Lowering time between levels is a good thing. Lowering the challenge is not.
The nice Lady made my complaint for me. Some are just better with the wordies.
It was more fun for me when it was more of a challange. Sure, many others had done the Fever quest solo before me, but my pally (first character on this account) couldn't do it solo, but my hunter did. It's not as fun knowing some future squishy I make will yawn while questing.
It was more fun for me when it was more of a challange. Sure, many others had done the Fever quest solo before me, but my pally (first character on this account) couldn't do it solo, but my hunter did. It's not as fun knowing some future squishy I make will yawn while questing.
Raynebow wrote:
The nice Lady made my complaint for me. Some are just better with the wordies.
It was more fun for me when it was more of a challange. Sure, many others had done the Fever quest solo before me, but my pally (first character on this account) couldn't do it solo, but my hunter did. It's not as fun knowing some future squishy I make will yawn while questing.
It was more fun for me when it was more of a challange. Sure, many others had done the Fever quest solo before me, but my pally (first character on this account) couldn't do it solo, but my hunter did. It's not as fun knowing some future squishy I make will yawn while questing.
No kidding, I have been hitting 3-4 levels a day now on My Warrior- now level 49 almost 50, and I have been lazy about it, and spending time to quest on my 70 for G.
That, and all my other toons, which were 12-14 on Friday, are now 22~
Come on Blizz..
I have yet to do any of the stupid retardly easy quests to know exactly what you guys mean... But I too have mixed emotions about this whole thing...
1.) Great! Now I can level my alts a little easier.
2.) Now I can do some of the quests I couldn't before due to lack of interest (Mainly lack of group)
3.) Boo on the lack of World Elites. WTF I loved those things! grinded them all the time for the better drops!
4.) Boo on making instances to easy! I 4 manned BFD last week with nothing higher than a lvl 28. I was lvl 24, my wife was playing a 23 priest, we had a lvl 27 Lock and a lvl 26 mage. We all lvled once in there and the boss was a lvl 24 that dropped like a fly.
5.) What made me happiest. Making the drops in early instances worth getting. They are usable longer. =D
Just my nickle worth.
1.) Great! Now I can level my alts a little easier.
2.) Now I can do some of the quests I couldn't before due to lack of interest (Mainly lack of group)
3.) Boo on the lack of World Elites. WTF I loved those things! grinded them all the time for the better drops!
4.) Boo on making instances to easy! I 4 manned BFD last week with nothing higher than a lvl 28. I was lvl 24, my wife was playing a 23 priest, we had a lvl 27 Lock and a lvl 26 mage. We all lvled once in there and the boss was a lvl 24 that dropped like a fly.
5.) What made me happiest. Making the drops in early instances worth getting. They are usable longer. =D
Just my nickle worth.
I think the reason they watered down a lot of the group quest was because doing the quest with a semi-intelligent group of people was never all that hard...finding the group of semi-intelligent people was.
A lot of the group quests as they existed pre-patch were suited to only a small group of players...either the ones in exceptionally large guilds with lots of people their level to draw on for help with the quests in a timely fashion, or a small group of people they grouped with regularly. For everyone else, it was hours (sometimes stretching over days) trying to find a group your level, or trying to convince a higher level person to come along and avoid the hassle of coordinating a group of novices that really just had no idea what they were doing.
I spent a little time in Deatholme on my Warlock this weekend. I had a few quests for that area that I was hoping to finish up and wanted to see just how nasty the big bad boss of the area was. I ended up grouping with a 23 Paladin (my lock was 20 at the time) and we actually managed to get the guy to about 1/3 HP before we wiped. (Not bad for a 20 and 23 vs. a 24 elite with 4-5k hp.) The notion of scrounging for a bunch of lowbies to run in and go for an all-out dps fest on this guy is...ya, not cool. Even worse the idea of coordinating a reasonably balanced group (ie. dungeon quality) to manage the fight.
It's not the event itself that makes it ugly...it's the pre-event coordination. Even worse when the pre-event coordination goes out the window seconds after you engage and all that time and effort only earns you a corpse run before 2-3 people decide to say ***** it and bugger off. People are more apt to get their game faces on for dungeons...for some reason, they never seem to take the open-air 3+ man group quests as seriously.
A lot of the group quests as they existed pre-patch were suited to only a small group of players...either the ones in exceptionally large guilds with lots of people their level to draw on for help with the quests in a timely fashion, or a small group of people they grouped with regularly. For everyone else, it was hours (sometimes stretching over days) trying to find a group your level, or trying to convince a higher level person to come along and avoid the hassle of coordinating a group of novices that really just had no idea what they were doing.
I spent a little time in Deatholme on my Warlock this weekend. I had a few quests for that area that I was hoping to finish up and wanted to see just how nasty the big bad boss of the area was. I ended up grouping with a 23 Paladin (my lock was 20 at the time) and we actually managed to get the guy to about 1/3 HP before we wiped. (Not bad for a 20 and 23 vs. a 24 elite with 4-5k hp.) The notion of scrounging for a bunch of lowbies to run in and go for an all-out dps fest on this guy is...ya, not cool. Even worse the idea of coordinating a reasonably balanced group (ie. dungeon quality) to manage the fight.
It's not the event itself that makes it ugly...it's the pre-event coordination. Even worse when the pre-event coordination goes out the window seconds after you engage and all that time and effort only earns you a corpse run before 2-3 people decide to say ***** it and bugger off. People are more apt to get their game faces on for dungeons...for some reason, they never seem to take the open-air 3+ man group quests as seriously.
5 posts
Yeh, does all seem a bit too easy!
HitashLevat wrote:
I have yet to do any of the stupid retardly easy quests to know exactly what you guys mean... But I too have mixed emotions about this whole thing...
1.) Great! Now I can level my alts a little easier.
2.) Now I can do some of the quests I couldn't before due to lack of interest (Mainly lack of group)
3.) Boo on the lack of World Elites. WTF I loved those things! grinded them all the time for the better drops!
4.) Boo on making instances to easy! I 4 manned BFD last week with nothing higher than a lvl 28. I was lvl 24, my wife was playing a 23 priest, we had a lvl 27 Lock and a lvl 26 mage. We all lvled once in there and the boss was a lvl 24 that dropped like a fly.
5.) What made me happiest. Making the drops in early instances worth getting. They are usable longer. =D
Just my nickle worth.
1.) Great! Now I can level my alts a little easier.
2.) Now I can do some of the quests I couldn't before due to lack of interest (Mainly lack of group)
3.) Boo on the lack of World Elites. WTF I loved those things! grinded them all the time for the better drops!
4.) Boo on making instances to easy! I 4 manned BFD last week with nothing higher than a lvl 28. I was lvl 24, my wife was playing a 23 priest, we had a lvl 27 Lock and a lvl 26 mage. We all lvled once in there and the boss was a lvl 24 that dropped like a fly.
5.) What made me happiest. Making the drops in early instances worth getting. They are usable longer. =D
Just my nickle worth.
You know they still have the same loot table right?
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Theremore has some new quests. YAY I thought, something new to try... that elation soon fell to OMG WTF! COme on, you kill frogs (thats right, the little ones on the ground you can 1 hit) to get some frog legs,
Actually, the new quest to kill frogs replaces an even easier quest. You used to have to bring Jarl some soothing spices and he'd give you the frog leg stew and then send you on your next task to get eyes from the spiders. Killing frogs is more fun than finding a place to buy soothing spices.
I do agree that some quests didn't need to be made easier though. I did the chain for the croc skins that comes from the guy in Booty Bay and was disappointed that the final step only involved killing a non-elite croc instead of the challenging elite that was beatable if you were decent at your class.
I was also disappointed at the joke Gammarita has become. She used to be an elite boss turtle in Hinterlands and was a tough elite to solo and now having lost her elite status means she's a boss who is lower level than the surrounding turtles. They could have at least boosted her level a bit to retain the feel of a boss.
Caldone the Shady wrote:
HitashLevat wrote:
I have yet to do any of the stupid retardly easy quests to know exactly what you guys mean... But I too have mixed emotions about this whole thing...
1.) Great! Now I can level my alts a little easier.
2.) Now I can do some of the quests I couldn't before due to lack of interest (Mainly lack of group)
3.) Boo on the lack of World Elites. WTF I loved those things! grinded them all the time for the better drops!
4.) Boo on making instances to easy! I 4 manned BFD last week with nothing higher than a lvl 28. I was lvl 24, my wife was playing a 23 priest, we had a lvl 27 Lock and a lvl 26 mage. We all lvled once in there and the boss was a lvl 24 that dropped like a fly.
5.) What made me happiest. Making the drops in early instances worth getting. They are usable longer. =D
Just my nickle worth.
1.) Great! Now I can level my alts a little easier.
2.) Now I can do some of the quests I couldn't before due to lack of interest (Mainly lack of group)
3.) Boo on the lack of World Elites. WTF I loved those things! grinded them all the time for the better drops!
4.) Boo on making instances to easy! I 4 manned BFD last week with nothing higher than a lvl 28. I was lvl 24, my wife was playing a 23 priest, we had a lvl 27 Lock and a lvl 26 mage. We all lvled once in there and the boss was a lvl 24 that dropped like a fly.
5.) What made me happiest. Making the drops in early instances worth getting. They are usable longer. =D
Just my nickle worth.
You know they still have the same loot table right?
Nope. haven't bothered grinding the old places due to the lack of exp gain and the fact theres new quests that actually give exp to get me from lvl to lvl. No need to kill them anymore lol.
yea i really miss the harder elite quests aswell, did the obsidian quest in searing gorge the other day, remebered it beeing a pretty hard fight togheter with the overseer but thought i could atleast try it solo, was lv 48 and it was just too easy, acuallt getting to the former elite bosses seems to always be the harder part nowdays, also with the speed of quest levling, taking the time to do any instances really mostly seems like a waste of time. i for one havent grouped ones so far.
was 22-23 when the patch came and is now 52, and in my eyes i have been pretty lazy, altho maybe not compared to the normal casual gamer.
another problem that came to mind was gold. sure for alts this isnt a problem, but it would seem to me that for a first time, getting gold for mounts etc would be really hard to come by. for 2 reasons.
1 and this doesnt have anything to do with the patch, but since the expansion alot of the old sellable items have lost some of it value making it abit harder to earn money.
2 with the now small time used leveling up to 60 you wont kill nearly the same amount of mobs meaning alot less money and item drops.
exactly how much this is affected i dont know since i early on supplied my alt with gold, but i would guess that im now at 52 prob is about -100-150G total.
was 22-23 when the patch came and is now 52, and in my eyes i have been pretty lazy, altho maybe not compared to the normal casual gamer.
another problem that came to mind was gold. sure for alts this isnt a problem, but it would seem to me that for a first time, getting gold for mounts etc would be really hard to come by. for 2 reasons.
1 and this doesnt have anything to do with the patch, but since the expansion alot of the old sellable items have lost some of it value making it abit harder to earn money.
2 with the now small time used leveling up to 60 you wont kill nearly the same amount of mobs meaning alot less money and item drops.
exactly how much this is affected i dont know since i early on supplied my alt with gold, but i would guess that im now at 52 prob is about -100-150G total.
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