SS is something I use all the time in instances and in PvE. With the new patch it is moved to the fury tree, and I now have Death Wish. I'm arms spec, with 7 points in fury and 8 in prot. When doing PvE, or instances I would Charge >SS>Cleave>zerker>WW, rinse and repeat. Very effective for dps ing. Don't think I can get 20 points into fury to get SS. Don't like it, how bout you?
Tom
Edited, Nov 14th 2007 2:23pm by tpcorr
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Upset about the sweeping strikes moveFollow
The change is better for arms pvp - as ms is pretty desired for arena/bg; SS is better overall for pve, minor pvp (fighting groups).
As my warrior is running 60 alterac, I'm happy with the recent patch changes.
But when I'm done with bg, leveling up will suck eggs -_-"
I'm guessing the change is based on the theory that "warriors are meant to tank, dps, or pvp" - in which case we are prot., fury, arms/fury, respectively. I guess blizz doesn't think warriors need the ability to solo two mobs at the same time unless we're in an instance :(
As my warrior is running 60 alterac, I'm happy with the recent patch changes.
But when I'm done with bg, leveling up will suck eggs -_-"
I'm guessing the change is based on the theory that "warriors are meant to tank, dps, or pvp" - in which case we are prot., fury, arms/fury, respectively. I guess blizz doesn't think warriors need the ability to solo two mobs at the same time unless we're in an instance :(
For me, I'm gonna miss DW being in fury. Mainly b/c I'm a 39 PvP warrior, and fury is the way to go pre-40. At 40 I'll be going prot until I hit 70...in which case I will probably go PvP prot until I can get all of the S1 or S2 gear (depending on if S4 is out yet by then...I'm taking a leisurely* pace with my warrior). THEN I will go arms...and yeah I'll enjoy it for arenas.
*I know I spelt that word wrong, but it's the best I can do.
*I know I spelt that word wrong, but it's the best I can do.
Uhm. sweeping strikes, and whirlwind. usable in berserker stance now. and affects 10 attacks. They seriously buffed sweeping strikes.
As for leveling purposes or twinking, this is NOT an issue that blizzard will consider. Especially for twinking.
Level 70 builds are what they balance towards. And I have to say, this whole patch is a buff not a nerf. IDK what you all think.
As for leveling purposes or twinking, this is NOT an issue that blizzard will consider. Especially for twinking.
Level 70 builds are what they balance towards. And I have to say, this whole patch is a buff not a nerf. IDK what you all think.
agree with devious, o.O to everyone else
imp intercept moved into arms works great, that has really no use in the fury tree when PvE'ing. that means you no longer have to spec any deeper than flurry to be effective and more points can be put elsewhere. weapon mastery moving to fury does not really affect PvP MS warriors... you only have a 5% base chance to miss anyway, and any opponent unfortunate enough to dodge can now eat your fully talented overpower whose points you didn't have to give up for imp. slam and flurry.
sweeping strikes moving into fury gives fury warriors a LOT more melee dps to work with, and less rage lost where you previously had to be in battle stance to hit SS, and then switch to zerker to WW.
your early level dps will no doubt suffer when soloing, but when you're tanking 1) you aren't looking to dps a lot anyway, 2) 3/3 imp tclap is attainable at level 18 and that's all you really need to hold aggro on 3 secondary mobs, and 3) when dpsing in instances, using anything more than slam/HS/MS is going to get you killed fast pulling mobs off the tank.
imp intercept moved into arms works great, that has really no use in the fury tree when PvE'ing. that means you no longer have to spec any deeper than flurry to be effective and more points can be put elsewhere. weapon mastery moving to fury does not really affect PvP MS warriors... you only have a 5% base chance to miss anyway, and any opponent unfortunate enough to dodge can now eat your fully talented overpower whose points you didn't have to give up for imp. slam and flurry.
sweeping strikes moving into fury gives fury warriors a LOT more melee dps to work with, and less rage lost where you previously had to be in battle stance to hit SS, and then switch to zerker to WW.
your early level dps will no doubt suffer when soloing, but when you're tanking 1) you aren't looking to dps a lot anyway, 2) 3/3 imp tclap is attainable at level 18 and that's all you really need to hold aggro on 3 secondary mobs, and 3) when dpsing in instances, using anything more than slam/HS/MS is going to get you killed fast pulling mobs off the tank.
Sweeping Strikes is a fun toy move. Its main drawback is that for something in the PvE tree, it doesn't fit. PvE usually involves lots of single-target fights, or lots of CC. Raid boss fights are almost exclusively a focus-fire event.
However, after raiding last night, I will say that at least personally, I miss the boss kill time combo of Heroism + Death Wish + Bulwark of the Ancient Kings + Recklessness + Sexecute spam. (yes, when you stack that many attack buffs at once, Execute gains an S)
However, after raiding last night, I will say that at least personally, I miss the boss kill time combo of Heroism + Death Wish + Bulwark of the Ancient Kings + Recklessness + Sexecute spam. (yes, when you stack that many attack buffs at once, Execute gains an S)
The new buff and placement of SS is pretty sweet for the ole 5 man dungeon. I ran slabs with a paly tank (man can he hold multimob aggro) and we didn't CC a single mob. Paly, Me, Priest, Spriest and Lock and we totally raped that instance. SS with WW w/a paly that can hold aggro like a ****...complete DMG meter obliteration. If SS isn't something to QQ about, what about that WW buff. WOW!
Now I have seen what a Seed of Corruption can do, and with SS and WW in slabs last night, I swear it looked like a SoC. It was great. Anyway, I agree with Devious, which isn't an uncommon thing. :)
Now I have seen what a Seed of Corruption can do, and with SS and WW in slabs last night, I swear it looked like a SoC. It was great. Anyway, I agree with Devious, which isn't an uncommon thing. :)
I just thought of something....
SS + Recklessness + WW = 8 crits at the same time.
I am going to enjoy trying that :D
SS + Recklessness + WW = 8 crits at the same time.
I am going to enjoy trying that :D
8 crits for 2h, 16 for d/w...
sexy strikes
sexy strikes
Oooo mama...
16 Crit strikes, with impale, and the +3% crit damage meta gem.
I almost wanna leave work a few hours early just so i can go do that once :D
16 Crit strikes, with impale, and the +3% crit damage meta gem.
I almost wanna leave work a few hours early just so i can go do that once :D
with enough rage, flurry, and my haste trinket up, i can use all 10 charges of SS with a 2h weapon. thats absolutely insane for pvp.
I am aan Arms warrior on a PVE server and I don't really like the change so far. I guess I need to respec to Fury now that I have hit 40. I loved SS and now I have Deathwish which I am not too fond of. I personally do not see the benefit of that skill.
Are they giving warriors a free respec?
Are they giving warriors a free respec?
No free respecs. Which is bogus imo, since they moved talents around, but w/e.
Now that is just ********* Seriously.
Strickly from a pve dps point of view the move licks big sweaty balls for boss fights, for trash mobs though it is nothing short of orgasmic.
SS > DW for trash by a long shot. DW > SS for boss fights by a long shot.
Basically this move gives us a fun new toy for the crap that doesn't really matter and a nerf for the fights where it counts the most.
Although as said before it is nothing short of orgasmic to hit SS coupled with the new WW when there are 4+ mobs around. Depending on crits my entire screen can be filled with big yellow numbers.
Guess that makes me a wage or a marrior.
SS > DW for trash by a long shot. DW > SS for boss fights by a long shot.
Basically this move gives us a fun new toy for the crap that doesn't really matter and a nerf for the fights where it counts the most.
Although as said before it is nothing short of orgasmic to hit SS coupled with the new WW when there are 4+ mobs around. Depending on crits my entire screen can be filled with big yellow numbers.
Guess that makes me a wage or a marrior.
we now get 10% threat reduction with 5/5 imp zerker stance, which is good not just for the span of time death wish would have been active, but good from the first blow you land. now we can dps sooner, and we can dps more.
threat reduction > death wish
threat reduction > death wish
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
we now get 10% threat reduction with 5/5 imp zerker stance, which is good not just for the span of time death wish would have been active, but good from the first blow you land. now we can dps sooner, and we can dps more.
threat reduction > death wish
threat reduction > death wish
I still wind up being threat capped without even using a flask or sharpening stones. :(
With 10% threat reduction, and WW doing OH dps, you should see a net increase to DPS that should offset DW usage. About 100+ dps more with ww and both weapons hitting. A constant +100 DPS is nice.
DW should be a 3 and 1/3 percent DPS increase (20% for 30 seconds every 3 minutes). 100 DPS = 3.33333 * x, x = 3000. So you'd have to be dealing 3000+ DPS for DW to be MORE dps than the WW buff.
Now, 100 extra DPS is just the base, since AP now applies even doubly so to WW damage. When you increase your AP to said 3000 dps total, your extra dps from the OH of WW will increase as well.
Your overall DPS should INCREASE because of the loss of DW, and the gain of OH WW hits.
DW should be a 3 and 1/3 percent DPS increase (20% for 30 seconds every 3 minutes). 100 DPS = 3.33333 * x, x = 3000. So you'd have to be dealing 3000+ DPS for DW to be MORE dps than the WW buff.
Now, 100 extra DPS is just the base, since AP now applies even doubly so to WW damage. When you increase your AP to said 3000 dps total, your extra dps from the OH of WW will increase as well.
Your overall DPS should INCREASE because of the loss of DW, and the gain of OH WW hits.
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I still wind up being threat capped without even using a flask or sharpening stones. :(
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threat reduction > death wish
Get better tanks. Seriously.
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DW should be a 3 and 1/3 percent DPS increase (20% for 30 seconds every 3 minutes). 100 DPS = 3.33333 * x, x = 3000. So you'd have to be dealing 3000+ DPS for DW to be MORE dps than the WW buff.
Yes, assuming the fight is 3m long exactly. In a fight that's 3m30s you get 20% for 60 seconds out of 240 seconds, or 25% of the time. 100 DPS (pre-armor, mind) = .05 * X, X = 2000 DPS... on zero-armor target. Your 'actual' DPS can be much, much lower than this and still get the same effect. For comparison purposes, I've done ~1700 actual DPS on Teron Gorefiend without any kind of Bloodlust stacking/War Drums, and even without using Reck, potions or Death Wish during executes.
This also assumes bosses that a) Don't have periods of excessive vulnerability (Magtheridon, Illidan, Reliquary of Souls) where you get a damage boost, or have an 'enrage' at 20% or lower where stacking additional damage is incredibly helpful (Vashj, Shahraz, Illidan) and b) Don't have periods where you're not attacking regardless, which gives a big boost to long-CD effects over short-CD, short-duration effects. This list is a doozy; Magtheridon, Gruul, Lurker, Leotheras, Vashj, Al'ar, Kael'thas, Rage Winterchill, Archimonde, Najentus, Supremus, Gurtogg Bloodboil, Shahraz, Illidan.
The loss of Death Wish hurts, a lot. Sweeping Strikes is a negligible raiding boost (woo, because trash DPS really matters) and doesn't come into play on many bosses at all. The Whirlwind change is nice, but it doesn't truly compensate for Death Wish in most situations - the large, timered DPS boost was an enormously useful tool.
zip said it best.
sure, if you look at things over the extreme long term, death wish is a drop in the bucket. i have to chuckle every time i see someone claim that OH WW hits and threat reduction outdoes death wish for damage, especially when they use death wish without any kind of other amplifying effect. sure, death wish at the beginning of a boss fight with no buffs doesnt do much, but death wish in execute range, even without recklessness, is insane enough on its own. add in heroism and other raid buffs, as well as the aforementioned vulnerabilities that some bosses have, and you get a hell of a damage multiplier.
in short, the synergy death wish provided a dps warrior is much greater than the synergy -threat and WW OH attacks provide.
sure, if you look at things over the extreme long term, death wish is a drop in the bucket. i have to chuckle every time i see someone claim that OH WW hits and threat reduction outdoes death wish for damage, especially when they use death wish without any kind of other amplifying effect. sure, death wish at the beginning of a boss fight with no buffs doesnt do much, but death wish in execute range, even without recklessness, is insane enough on its own. add in heroism and other raid buffs, as well as the aforementioned vulnerabilities that some bosses have, and you get a hell of a damage multiplier.
in short, the synergy death wish provided a dps warrior is much greater than the synergy -threat and WW OH attacks provide.
So basically, this switch hurts fury pve dps the most? I can see that. My pve dps build and my pvp dps build are fairly similar, and both go 31 into Arms, so always have deathwish (sweeping strikes before the patch). Then again, I love using 2-handed weapons and I will never be a raid dpser (if I do eventually raid, it will be as a tank or not at all).
those numbers where with mitigation, and avoidance.
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