I'm glad they replaced the 11-point talent on enh, because it means while levelling I wont have to worry about respeccing or wasting a point. Before I explain my levelling build, I'll explain the strategy: grind on mobs 1-4 levels below me. This would mean that I dont have to worry too much about survivability, since they should be fairly easy even if I'm only moderately well geared, so my goal is to burn through mobs as quickly as possible and maybe stop to heal/drink every few fights.
So, with that in mind, here's my build: 18/43/0
The goal is to have my melee abilities boost my shocks, and my shocks boost my melee abilities. I favored dropping 1 point in the +hit in favor of filling up elemental devastation. So...I end up with the following:
Using a totem that will buff ME, not my weapons (since AFAIK flametongue totem overrides windfury weapon or vice versa), using WF on slow weapons and flametongue on fast ones (hey...one talent buffs both), and then letting my melee crits benefit shocks and shock crits benefit melee.
Are there any tweaks you see in said build that I could make?
EDIT: Or maybe this, which swaps 3/5 anticipation for 3/3 imp lightning shield?
Edited, Nov 14th 2007 11:08am by skribs
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what you have there is the "suicide build" which is for pvp
For leveling go with this
edit : that should be useful
Edited, Nov 14th 2007 2:12pm by Draeneipally
For leveling go with this
edit : that should be useful
Edited, Nov 14th 2007 2:12pm by Draeneipally
note that the point in 2h is meant for the new talent
The problem with the levelling spec you provided is it doesnt fit what I want in a build. I think I'll go with the PvP spec, as it looks like the fastest one for what I want (and guys 1-4 levels below me shouldn't cause too much damage anyway), and hey PvP style grinding is working on my mage right now.
The real problem with what you gave me is I feel the points in imp weap totems are wasted, since I probably wont be using weapon totems.
Edited, Nov 14th 2007 11:20am by skribs
The real problem with what you gave me is I feel the points in imp weap totems are wasted, since I probably wont be using weapon totems.
Edited, Nov 14th 2007 11:20am by skribs
its just that you really shouldnt rely on grinding to level as questing makes you money and is much much faster especially at 30 because of the patch, the "suicide build" is basically when you know you're going to die but take 2-3 players with you, but it takes a lot of skill to use and is not advised, if you want to melee go enhancement, caster? go elemental...
but thats just my opinion go with whats fun for you =) wow is what you make of it
but thats just my opinion go with whats fun for you =) wow is what you make of it
Don't listen to Draeneipally, what he has posted is useless as a leveling build anyway, looks more like a messed up raid build to me and even then it's missing essentials...
However he is right in saying what you have done is a suicide build, great for PvP, weak for solo PvE, horrible for grouping. It is also worth noting that these builds do not usually run past Stormstrike in enhancement as dual wield is inferior for PvP anyway. Running all the way down to SR makes the point balance tricky.
Flame tongue and WF totem buff the main hand weapons of all party members within their radius. They DO NOT override your manually applied buffs or those of your party members (rogue poisons, sharpening stones etc).
Honestly Enh/Elem really suffers in comparison to Enh/Resto for everything except PvP and even then I prefer the survivability of those few points in resto, but I won't argue the point.
Anyway just a couple of points on your build, first of all lose Elemental Devastation, this talent is nowhere near as good as it looks. Without gearing up with a lot of spell crit it will rarely proc, by the time you have enough spell crit to get regular procs you've sacrificed so much melee crit that your overall dps is down.
That free's up 3 points, usually I'd tell you to sink them in EotS for the survivability but there are a couple of other holes we have to fill first. Most importantly fill out Dual Wield Spec, this really is essential due to the huge penalty to hit with the offhand (another reason many of us like resto is the extra 3% hit you can get in there). Honestly either fill it out or consider dropping DW altogether.
I'd put the other 2 points in Imp Ghost Wolf, this is another great survivability talent (drops it to a 1 second cast time) especially pre 40 but even after that it is a great escape tool due to being usable in combat.
Unfortunately it still doesn't sit quite right, as I say it is unusual to see an Enh/Elem build that's not for PvP so the balance is unusual.
However he is right in saying what you have done is a suicide build, great for PvP, weak for solo PvE, horrible for grouping. It is also worth noting that these builds do not usually run past Stormstrike in enhancement as dual wield is inferior for PvP anyway. Running all the way down to SR makes the point balance tricky.
Flame tongue and WF totem buff the main hand weapons of all party members within their radius. They DO NOT override your manually applied buffs or those of your party members (rogue poisons, sharpening stones etc).
Honestly Enh/Elem really suffers in comparison to Enh/Resto for everything except PvP and even then I prefer the survivability of those few points in resto, but I won't argue the point.
Anyway just a couple of points on your build, first of all lose Elemental Devastation, this talent is nowhere near as good as it looks. Without gearing up with a lot of spell crit it will rarely proc, by the time you have enough spell crit to get regular procs you've sacrificed so much melee crit that your overall dps is down.
That free's up 3 points, usually I'd tell you to sink them in EotS for the survivability but there are a couple of other holes we have to fill first. Most importantly fill out Dual Wield Spec, this really is essential due to the huge penalty to hit with the offhand (another reason many of us like resto is the extra 3% hit you can get in there). Honestly either fill it out or consider dropping DW altogether.
I'd put the other 2 points in Imp Ghost Wolf, this is another great survivability talent (drops it to a 1 second cast time) especially pre 40 but even after that it is a great escape tool due to being usable in combat.
Unfortunately it still doesn't sit quite right, as I say it is unusual to see an Enh/Elem build that's not for PvP so the balance is unusual.
Heh, I don't know if it's good or bad that I'm throwing people off. I'll have to quote someone in a post I made on the mage forums...
grinding is not full of difficult encounters.
So I'm not expecting to have problems surviving. I do see the point in dropping ED though, for 2 reasons...
1. If I do the math, I think it comes out to roughly a 0.33% increase in damage per talent. Since most hybrid DD talents are about a 1-2% damage increase, I see where this would be a problem.
2. ED isn't something I should have for years =P.
Imp Ghost Wolf doesn't really look appealing to me, because I shouldn't need the extra speed that quick in most situations. Chances are it'd be the last 2 points I do since it doesn't add to combat, and I don't like the idea of using GW instead of a mount.
EotS doesn't seem all that great either, because it's focusing on casting whereas I dont see myself using much casting with a predominantly melee spec (hence the problem with ED). I would be tempted to put points into Elemental Focus...but there AGAIN is the problem of spells not critting very often.
As far as weapon totems go, my thoughts were simply to buff up the two in enhancing totems, since I'm probably going to be solo most of the time anyway. And hey, if I group, chances are there'll be a hunter, so I have the excuse to use grace of air =P.
So I have to decide, then, if I want to continue to put 15 points into enhancement to get the most I can out of my shocks, or if I want to put the points into resto. While I do see the extra damage coming out of the shocks, I believe resto would offer me less down time. As I've seen on my mage, less combat time does lead to less down time (as right now I grind with a pvp style, I'll drop guys in 2-3 hits but I'll have to poly the target first half the time because I'm pulling with pyroblast).
Since most of the mobs will be lower level than me, I shouldn't have too much of an issue hitting them. With the extra 6% from DW spec, I dont see going into resto for the 3% as too big of a deal. So I think I will stick with the suicide spec, as suicidal as it sounds. The only problem is where to put my last two talent points, since this is what I've come up with.
Or if I were to go resto, what to do with the 17 points there?
Quote:
grinding is not full of difficult encounters.
So I'm not expecting to have problems surviving. I do see the point in dropping ED though, for 2 reasons...
1. If I do the math, I think it comes out to roughly a 0.33% increase in damage per talent. Since most hybrid DD talents are about a 1-2% damage increase, I see where this would be a problem.
2. ED isn't something I should have for years =P.
Imp Ghost Wolf doesn't really look appealing to me, because I shouldn't need the extra speed that quick in most situations. Chances are it'd be the last 2 points I do since it doesn't add to combat, and I don't like the idea of using GW instead of a mount.
EotS doesn't seem all that great either, because it's focusing on casting whereas I dont see myself using much casting with a predominantly melee spec (hence the problem with ED). I would be tempted to put points into Elemental Focus...but there AGAIN is the problem of spells not critting very often.
As far as weapon totems go, my thoughts were simply to buff up the two in enhancing totems, since I'm probably going to be solo most of the time anyway. And hey, if I group, chances are there'll be a hunter, so I have the excuse to use grace of air =P.
So I have to decide, then, if I want to continue to put 15 points into enhancement to get the most I can out of my shocks, or if I want to put the points into resto. While I do see the extra damage coming out of the shocks, I believe resto would offer me less down time. As I've seen on my mage, less combat time does lead to less down time (as right now I grind with a pvp style, I'll drop guys in 2-3 hits but I'll have to poly the target first half the time because I'm pulling with pyroblast).
Since most of the mobs will be lower level than me, I shouldn't have too much of an issue hitting them. With the extra 6% from DW spec, I dont see going into resto for the 3% as too big of a deal. So I think I will stick with the suicide spec, as suicidal as it sounds. The only problem is where to put my last two talent points, since this is what I've come up with.
Or if I were to go resto, what to do with the 17 points there?
Quote:
So I'm not expecting to have problems surviving.
Ask a healer whether mages or shammy's seem squishier, you'll be surprised how many will say shammy's. But that's more a grouping thing and I know you said you'll be mainly flying solo. Things like blink and poly give mages a lot of survivability shammy's just don't have.
Quote:
EotS doesn't seem all that great either, because it's focusing on casting whereas I dont see myself using much casting with a predominantly melee spec (hence the problem with ED).
What I had in mind was using it for an uninterruptable heal.
Quote:
I would be tempted to put points into Elemental Focus...but there AGAIN is the problem of spells not critting very often.
Agreed.
Quote:
With the extra 6% from DW spec, I dont see going into resto for the 3% as too big of a deal.
Yeah that's fine, the extra 3% is not really necessary for solo PvE but it is a raid essential.
Quote:
The only problem is where to put my last two talent points, since this is what I've come up with.
I would seriously consider Imp GW. That one second cast time makes it a viable escape option for multiple add situations as well as giving a lot of PvP flexibility. It's not so much a case of using GW instead of a mount in general but there are situations where mounting is not possible. You cannot mount in combat and you cannot mount while carrying a flag in battlegrounds.
Quote:
Or if I were to go resto, what to do with the 17 points there?
I'd put 5 in Imp HW, 2 in Imp Reincarnation, 4 in Totemic Focus, 1 in Totemic mastery and 5 in Healing Focus.
I think in that case I'll simply go 2/3 DW Spec and put 3 points into EotS. That should do it...I may be as squishy as a rogue but hey I'll kill 'em hella fast.
Ok I'm really confused now. Since when have we been squishy? I'm fine with my enh/ele build, and unless I can get something that kills faster I probobly will not change. I have tried enh/resto and perfer this now...so do whatever you want.
Yes you can critisize me...my post is just asking for it
Edited, Nov 15th 2007 6:23pm by stUUf
Yes you can critisize me...my post is just asking for it
Edited, Nov 15th 2007 6:23pm by stUUf
stUUf wrote:
Ok I'm really confused now. Since when have we been squishy? I'm fine with my enh/ele build, and unless I can get something that kills faster I probobly will not change. I have tried enh/resto and perfer this now...so do whatever you want.
Yes you can critisize me...my post is just asking for it
Edited, Nov 15th 2007 6:23pm by stUUf
Yes you can critisize me...my post is just asking for it
Edited, Nov 15th 2007 6:23pm by stUUf
Actually this was something I had been pondering over as well. And yes, while leveling my priest I recall Enhancement/leveling shaman taking quite a bit of damage. At times it became quite frustating keeping up the healing.
I have my own Enh shammy I'm trying to level now and I don't want to be a damage burden to any groups. I suppose all I can do is take responsibility for my own healing and remember that although I'm doing melee, I'm definitely not the tank.
Quote:
I have my own Enh shammy I'm trying to level now and I don't want to be a damage burden to any groups. I suppose all I can do is take responsibility for my own healing and remember that although I'm doing melee, I'm definitely not the tank.
Just get a damage meter and learn to manage your aggro, it can be tricky because enhancement dps is by its very nature very spiky.
So many enhancement Shamans are totally focused on proving that they have "leet dps" and constantly pull aggro (often intentionally) and try to solo instance mobs. While they may be capable of doing so all they are really doing is making everyone elses jobs harder (particularly the tanks and healers).
Keep appropriate totems down, manage your aggro, help out with healing when needed and you'll be on the right path (and one of the few let me tell you).
I went to 1 to 70 as enhancement, am now Ele since the last server maintenance :)
From my experience, improved GW is very important for survival. Shaman had not much to help us when we make bad pulls. I usually drop stoneclaw, and pray I get into GW and run away in time. The few seconds makes a world of difference. Less death = less money wasted, less time running back to get corpse, etc.
IMO, the suicide build is not good for regular PvE. Our DPS is crazy once we get WF. Very often, in teams, I have to focus on NOT going overboard in DPS (and my gear was just average). What I usually do is spend the 1st few seconds dropping totems to buff the team and allow the tank to gain more on the aggro meter before I open up.
With the suicide build, once your mana runs out, you are almost as good as dead if there any remainin mobs pounding on you. I used to belief that... killing the mob faster = less damage suffered = less healing required. But this is only true if u are facing ONE mob. If u need to go for a long fight (e.g. adds u cant run from),.... it doesnt work.
IMO, enh/resto is a better option. I focused on putting my points in enh before I went into resto. Resto progression stopped for a long while after the 1st 5 points.
Lastly, .. after trying out PVP as Ele... I'm not going to go back to Enh for PVP. I've done the suicide build, the burst DPS is awesome, but often not enuf to kill. U have to pray for the crits. And worse, you often dont get to even hit your opponent. They just kite u. Irritating.
From my experience, improved GW is very important for survival. Shaman had not much to help us when we make bad pulls. I usually drop stoneclaw, and pray I get into GW and run away in time. The few seconds makes a world of difference. Less death = less money wasted, less time running back to get corpse, etc.
IMO, the suicide build is not good for regular PvE. Our DPS is crazy once we get WF. Very often, in teams, I have to focus on NOT going overboard in DPS (and my gear was just average). What I usually do is spend the 1st few seconds dropping totems to buff the team and allow the tank to gain more on the aggro meter before I open up.
With the suicide build, once your mana runs out, you are almost as good as dead if there any remainin mobs pounding on you. I used to belief that... killing the mob faster = less damage suffered = less healing required. But this is only true if u are facing ONE mob. If u need to go for a long fight (e.g. adds u cant run from),.... it doesnt work.
IMO, enh/resto is a better option. I focused on putting my points in enh before I went into resto. Resto progression stopped for a long while after the 1st 5 points.
Lastly, .. after trying out PVP as Ele... I'm not going to go back to Enh for PVP. I've done the suicide build, the burst DPS is awesome, but often not enuf to kill. U have to pray for the crits. And worse, you often dont get to even hit your opponent. They just kite u. Irritating.
I disagree. Just get two fast weapons and hit shamanistic rage and you're back at full mana. Plus I almost never run out of mana unless I'm healing an instance.
With ANY spec if you go OOM you're dead. With an enhancement spec you have a better chance to survive after going OOM, IMO.
And one thing you dont know about me (which you shouldn't because I haven't told you) is my main is a hunter. I am better at pulling than I am at anything else in the game. I know when I made a bad pull and I'm capable of recognizing that before mobs get to me. So the whole overpull issue shouldn't be a problem for me.
And one thing you dont know about me (which you shouldn't because I haven't told you) is my main is a hunter. I am better at pulling than I am at anything else in the game. I know when I made a bad pull and I'm capable of recognizing that before mobs get to me. So the whole overpull issue shouldn't be a problem for me.
sorry im not enhancement but i thought that was a oretty good pve build =(
On 66+ you can afford some bad pulls. Just drop earth elemental and poof your aggro free...unless you can build that much aggro.
Edited, Nov 17th 2007 7:41am by stUUf
Edited, Nov 17th 2007 7:41am by stUUf
Dread Lord SunSoarer wrote:
Quote:
I have my own Enh shammy I'm trying to level now and I don't want to be a damage burden to any groups. I suppose all I can do is take responsibility for my own healing and remember that although I'm doing melee, I'm definitely not the tank.
Just get a damage meter and learn to manage your aggro, it can be tricky because enhancement dps is by its very nature very spiky.
So many enhancement Shamans are totally focused on proving that they have "leet dps" and constantly pull aggro (often intentionally) and try to solo instance mobs. While they may be capable of doing so all they are really doing is making everyone elses jobs harder (particularly the tanks and healers).
Keep appropriate totems down, manage your aggro, help out with healing when needed and you'll be on the right path (and one of the few let me tell you).
I have Omen, which definitely helps. Would you suggest grouping with a one hand and a shield? I'm trying to focus on utility and not dps charts. Should I bring him up to 70 I rather like the elemental shaman I've seen, so I will probably convert over to that. I wanted something that does DPS but not in the mage/warlock manner. I already have a 70 hunter that is my overall main and my 70 holy priest who .. well she's another main I guess you would say as well.
Shaman are completely new territory to me and I'm enjoying it very much so far.
Oh and one other question. How does chain lightning work? I mean .. for the most part we focus fire on individual mobs. How useful, and in what situations could I use this skill?
I only read the OP and skimmed the rest, but it looks like people are arguing over a nonsense question- whether a lvl 70 build is good for leveling. What you really wanted to know was how to burn through mobs and level quickly, and you are generally on the right track- lightning shield would be better than dodge, and consider 15 percent to fire totems over 6/10s of a second on shock- I would think it would produce greater overall DPS, which you stated was your goal. Ghost wolf should be considered over both lightning shield and dodge- it can save you. One guy was arguing the merits of the hit talent in resto, which is crucial at lvl 70, but almost completely irrelevant to leveling on mobs 3 levels below you. Do the enhance part first, especially get to stormstrike and dual wield ASAP, and you'll be fine. Enh/ele is perfectly legitimate to level with, but 60-70 will probably be better as enh/resto.
Edited, Nov 17th 2007 2:24pm by Benzzo
Edited, Nov 17th 2007 2:24pm by Benzzo
Quote:
I have Omen, which definitely helps. Would you suggest grouping with a one hand and a shield? I'm trying to focus on utility and not dps charts.
That's a refreshing attitude, too many shammy's seem oblivious to the amazing support and utility we bring to a group. Having said that you ARE a dps and that is the role you are in a group for. Don't use a shield unless you are elemental or you have to offtank for a particular fight. Dual wield is the way to go, just give the tank time to get a threat lead and if your aggro gets too high just step back for a second and throw a few spot heals so the tank can get ahead again.
Quote:
Oh and one other question. How does chain lightning work? I mean .. for the most part we focus fire on individual mobs. How useful, and in what situations could I use this skill?
CL is very dangerous to use when grouping, I would only use it if the tank had a good threat lead on ALL mobs (pally is great for that) and the mobs were low health anyway, it can be a great finisher in that kind of situation. CL is designed more for PvP and it is awesome in that context.
Dread Lord SunSoarer wrote:
Quote:
I have Omen, which definitely helps. Would you suggest grouping with a one hand and a shield? I'm trying to focus on utility and not dps charts.
That's a refreshing attitude, too many shammy's seem oblivious to the amazing support and utility we bring to a group. Having said that you ARE a dps and that is the role you are in a group for. Don't use a shield unless you are elemental or you have to offtank for a particular fight. Dual wield is the way to go, just give the tank time to get a threat lead and if your aggro gets too high just step back for a second and throw a few spot heals so the tank can get ahead again.
Quote:
Oh and one other question. How does chain lightning work? I mean .. for the most part we focus fire on individual mobs. How useful, and in what situations could I use this skill?
CL is very dangerous to use when grouping, I would only use it if the tank had a good threat lead on ALL mobs (pally is great for that) and the mobs were low health anyway, it can be a great finisher in that kind of situation. CL is designed more for PvP and it is awesome in that context.
Awesome. Thanks for the advice. I'll take you up on it.
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