Even at lvl 37, it doesn't seem like I have the power that other classes have at the same lvl. I'm frost so that might be my problem but even still. It's somewhat discouraging because I'm wondering if I'm going to feel underpowered all the way to 70.
Sorry for the rant but I needed a place to blow off some steam.
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If you're feeling week at 37, there's something wrong there because your burst damage capabilities are way better than most classes. Trash mobs in instance or random world critters should go down quite easily all the way to 70.
Remember you're pretty much the only class with AoE techniques (not counting stuff such as multi-shot and the likes), learn how to use 'em, that should be a good starting point.
Just so you know, most 2 player quests in outlands I could solo being a fire mage; don't think we're underpowered.
Remember you're pretty much the only class with AoE techniques (not counting stuff such as multi-shot and the likes), learn how to use 'em, that should be a good starting point.
Just so you know, most 2 player quests in outlands I could solo being a fire mage; don't think we're underpowered.
I'm curious as to your spec and gear, OP.
Frost is a very good spec to have because of the survivabilty. I leveled from 30-70 as frost and loved it. I just recently switched to fire to up my damage in raids. I miss frost, and will probably respec as I have the spellfire and fsw sets made. And wait until 50 when you can get the WE. That is just extra damage and an extra freeze for a shatter crit.
Okay, I took a look at your build and your gear. Here's what I can say should be done: Your spec is decent, however I'd take the one point out of Improved Blizzard and put it into Elemental Precision.
Secondly, although gear doesn't matter to much, you need more intellect. Much more intellect. You have to much +stam gear, which is a problem. You have some level 27 and 28 gear, get rid of that even if it is a blue piece. Also, not to be a jerk, but at that level spell damage isn't as important. You just simply can't stack enough of it to make it a viable way to gear.
Lastly, be sure to pull from a distance, you can get 3 Frost Bolts off, and then you Frost Nova. Do another Frost Bolt, and then quickly (as soon as the Frost Bolt goes off) hit Fire Blast. This should allow you to get two crits if done correctly.
Give us some details about your play style. I felt extremely powerful the whole way to 70, and infact was always top in BGs. So, it may just be how you pull mobs or the way you play the game.
Edited, Nov 14th 2007 2:22pm by Enigmen
Secondly, although gear doesn't matter to much, you need more intellect. Much more intellect. You have to much +stam gear, which is a problem. You have some level 27 and 28 gear, get rid of that even if it is a blue piece. Also, not to be a jerk, but at that level spell damage isn't as important. You just simply can't stack enough of it to make it a viable way to gear.
Lastly, be sure to pull from a distance, you can get 3 Frost Bolts off, and then you Frost Nova. Do another Frost Bolt, and then quickly (as soon as the Frost Bolt goes off) hit Fire Blast. This should allow you to get two crits if done correctly.
Give us some details about your play style. I felt extremely powerful the whole way to 70, and infact was always top in BGs. So, it may just be how you pull mobs or the way you play the game.
Edited, Nov 14th 2007 2:22pm by Enigmen
I usually get about 2 to 3 Frost Bolts from max distance, depending on how fast the mob runs, then Frost Noav and strafe away a good distance and pop off another Frost Bolt, and maybe another if I have time. If that doesn't kill the mob (and it usually doesn't) I follow up with a Fire Blast and either wand or CoC if necessary.
I haven't tried AoE grinding yet because of lack of mount and Ice Barrier. Also if I go for more Int and drop Stam, I'm really gonna need Ice Barrier so I don't die on a pull so I'll have to wait til 40 to try it out.
Thanks for the input :P
P.S. I haven't tried out BG's since I was 29 and I wasn't twinked so I would always get slaughtered by the twinks. It was also very hard for me to do much damage because I couldn't really stand still long enough to get off a Frost Bolt without getting ambushed by a twinked rogue. I hope it will be a little easier when I stop at 59 or 60 and PvP to build up honor.
I haven't tried AoE grinding yet because of lack of mount and Ice Barrier. Also if I go for more Int and drop Stam, I'm really gonna need Ice Barrier so I don't die on a pull so I'll have to wait til 40 to try it out.
Thanks for the input :P
P.S. I haven't tried out BG's since I was 29 and I wasn't twinked so I would always get slaughtered by the twinks. It was also very hard for me to do much damage because I couldn't really stand still long enough to get off a Frost Bolt without getting ambushed by a twinked rogue. I hope it will be a little easier when I stop at 59 or 60 and PvP to build up honor.
The good news is that the amount of twinkage is reduced for each set of BGs. I had forgotten this until I ran my Lvl 18 warrior in WSG... I got slaughtered. I noticed that the guys I fought had 3x the health I had. It was at least half the BG that was like that. At 39, 49, 59, they aren't nearly so twinked. Don't do what I did initially on my mage. I did 19 and went "I HATE PVP". Then I didn't really PvP again until 60. Then my 60 was going up against 60s with epic gear and I still got slaughtered. If I'd have stopped in a few BGs in between, I think I'd be a better PvPer today. It took me a long time to enjoy PvP, but I love it now.
Actually it's the opposite for me, I love PvP but I just wasn't very good at it. I'd like to get back into the BG's but I also want to get to at least 60, preferably 70 as fast as possible.
If you are not going to do AoE, then do the following:
1) Get rid of your 1 point in Elemental Precision (1 point here doesn't do much), and the 1 point in Improved Blizzard (useless unless you are doing AoE)
2) Put those 2 points into Frostbite.
3) Get a 3rd point from somewhere (maybe Frost Channeling), and put it into Frostbite.
4) Full Frostbite and Shatter will make you crit like crazy. More damage. Woo Hoo!!!!
Of course, if you plan to AoE, then you need a completely different spec.
1) Get rid of your 1 point in Elemental Precision (1 point here doesn't do much), and the 1 point in Improved Blizzard (useless unless you are doing AoE)
2) Put those 2 points into Frostbite.
3) Get a 3rd point from somewhere (maybe Frost Channeling), and put it into Frostbite.
4) Full Frostbite and Shatter will make you crit like crazy. More damage. Woo Hoo!!!!
Of course, if you plan to AoE, then you need a completely different spec.
YJMark wrote:
If you are not going to do AoE, then do the following:
1) Get rid of your 1 point in Elemental Precision (1 point here doesn't do much), and the 1 point in Improved Blizzard (useless unless you are doing AoE)
2) Put those 2 points into Frostbite.
3) Get a 3rd point from somewhere (maybe Frost Channeling), and put it into Frostbite.
4) Full Frostbite and Shatter will make you crit like crazy. More damage. Woo Hoo!!!!
Of course, if you plan to AoE, then you need a completely different spec.
1) Get rid of your 1 point in Elemental Precision (1 point here doesn't do much), and the 1 point in Improved Blizzard (useless unless you are doing AoE)
2) Put those 2 points into Frostbite.
3) Get a 3rd point from somewhere (maybe Frost Channeling), and put it into Frostbite.
4) Full Frostbite and Shatter will make you crit like crazy. More damage. Woo Hoo!!!!
Of course, if you plan to AoE, then you need a completely different spec.
Elemental Precision a useless talent? I think not!
Enigmen wrote:
Elemental Precision a useless talent? I think not!
It's definitely not. However, as you're leveling, it's not necessarily the best placement of talent points since you should really avoid mobs higher level than you anyway. And the recommendation to pick up frostbite is a good one. As someone who leveled frost from day one, I agree with most of YJMark's suggestions. The only one I disagree with is the part on #3 that sas to drop a point from Frost Channeling. It's a non-negotiable talent for me.
Here's how I would do it.
Starting at level 37:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZZVVGoofxo
I dropped piercing ice because it's kind of a poor leveling talent. It really doesn't shine until later on. This frees up points for some of the gems of the leveling tree, such as finishing off Frost Channeling, Frostbite, and starting to fill out Permafrost. Again, Elemental Precision was dropped as you likely will not be running into mobs higher than you if you're doing it right.
Onward to level 45:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZZVVGhofxo0q
Finished off Permafrost and filled out Arctic Winds. It may give less damage than Piercing Ice, but it also gives survivability. And survivability is good.
Then to level 50:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZZViGhofxobqz
I filled out Ice Floes for more utility/survivability, put some points in elemental precision since Outland is coming up soon(and in Outland, the mobs your level and higher abound), and grabbed the elemental(no real need to explain why).
Then to level 55:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZZVAGhofxobqp
Finished out Elemental Precision and started filling Empowered Frostbolt. Outland is coming. And now is the time to start getting talents that are affected by spell damage. The crit is also nice.
Then to level 60:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ooZZVAGIofxobqt
Filled out Empowered Frostbolt, grabbed Piercing Ice, and started out the standard arcane tree setup I always take.
Level 65:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0zZZVAGIofxobqt
More Arcane, making the way to Arcane Concentration.
Level 70:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0VZZVNGIofxobqt
Filled out Arcane concentration. With one point left for putting it how you want.
Mind you, this isn't the final build as I'd have it at 70 for raiding or even PvP. It's a leveling build.
Again, this is a leveling build. Most of your damage will come from crits and you will not be trying to do so much damage that you kill things before they reach you. Instead, you will be trying to control your enemy so it doesn't reach you before you kill it.
You should see a net increase in both survivability and killing potential by going this way, IMO.
"you will not be trying to do so much damage that you kill things before they reach you. Instead, you will be trying to control your enemy so it doesn't reach you before you kill it. " - Brilliant!!!!!!
For ealier - sorry if I wasn't clear.
Elemental Precision is an awesome talent. I was just saying that only putting 1 point in it limits its usefullness. Loading all 3 points in it, and you have an awesome talent!
Frost Channeling - I also loaded up on this one personally. Mana efficiency is awesome, and threat reduction in groups is non-negotiable. The only reason I suggested to possibly pull a single point from it was that the OP was complaining about damage output. This talent does not increase damage output (unless you count that additional spell you can cast from mana efficiency, or that extra spell you can cast becauase you don't pull aggro).
All I was really recommending was to get Frostbite the full 3 points. I was not dissing any of the other talents.
The hardest part is always picking talents. I love them all, and want to fill them all up. Unfortuantely, there is only a limited number of points to use. Can't wait until the cap is raised to lvl 80 :)
Edited, Nov 15th 2007 9:48am by YJMark
For ealier - sorry if I wasn't clear.
Elemental Precision is an awesome talent. I was just saying that only putting 1 point in it limits its usefullness. Loading all 3 points in it, and you have an awesome talent!
Frost Channeling - I also loaded up on this one personally. Mana efficiency is awesome, and threat reduction in groups is non-negotiable. The only reason I suggested to possibly pull a single point from it was that the OP was complaining about damage output. This talent does not increase damage output (unless you count that additional spell you can cast from mana efficiency, or that extra spell you can cast becauase you don't pull aggro).
All I was really recommending was to get Frostbite the full 3 points. I was not dissing any of the other talents.
The hardest part is always picking talents. I love them all, and want to fill them all up. Unfortuantely, there is only a limited number of points to use. Can't wait until the cap is raised to lvl 80 :)
Edited, Nov 15th 2007 9:48am by YJMark
Quote:
Can't wait until the cap is raised to lvl 80 :)
Yeah, but then you will have even more awesome (hopefully) talents deeper in the trees. (51 point talents FTW).
ktangent wrote:
Quote:
Can't wait until the cap is raised to lvl 80 :)
Yeah, but then you will have even more awesome (hopefully) talents deeper in the trees. (51 point talents FTW).
I'm still hoping for a phoenix.
Don't want to upset anyone, but would I be correct in advising to switch to fire to show more damage?
I did this recently, and noticed a massive difference. My guild members now ask me to go on runs due to the damage I can cause.
Very true about intellect on gear, get as much as possible.
I switched a lot of blue gear to gree simply because it had a lot more intellect on it.
I used to lose all duels/battleground enounters, but now I can easily go up against a rogue or warrior of the same level. Running around using AoE on someone not only throws their concentration, but gives them a hefty kick at the same time.
I did this recently, and noticed a massive difference. My guild members now ask me to go on runs due to the damage I can cause.
Very true about intellect on gear, get as much as possible.
I switched a lot of blue gear to gree simply because it had a lot more intellect on it.
I used to lose all duels/battleground enounters, but now I can easily go up against a rogue or warrior of the same level. Running around using AoE on someone not only throws their concentration, but gives them a hefty kick at the same time.
Reknotz wrote:
Don't want to upset anyone, but would I be correct in advising to switch to fire to show more damage?
I did this recently, and noticed a massive difference. My guild members now ask me to go on runs due to the damage I can cause.
I did this recently, and noticed a massive difference. My guild members now ask me to go on runs due to the damage I can cause.
Fire is excellent for damage, but if you know what you're doing, a frost mage can be comparable in 5 man instances. Fire really only begins to shine as the absolute top damage on bosses where you can stack up a 5 stack of Imp Scorch.
Another thing, OP:
Quote:
pee-in-this-cup-or-i'm-going-to-jail, NM
That describes a lot of places in this state.
But seriously, where in NM ya from? I love running into fellow NM folks here on the boards. Ah, from NM... that explains why you're 'posting from Hell, it's about time'
LOL... sorry, Pol. Couldn't resist.
LOL... sorry, Pol. Couldn't resist.
ktangent wrote:
Ah, from NM... that explains why you're 'posting from Hell, it's about time'
LOL... sorry, Pol. Couldn't resist.
LOL... sorry, Pol. Couldn't resist.
Please tell me you get the StarCraft 2 reference before the Nyquil makes me all emo.
Sorry, Pol... the only video game I have played other than WoW in the last 10 years is Doom & Solitare....
ktangent wrote:
Sorry, Pol... the only video game I have played other than WoW in the last 10 years is Doom & Solitare....
Quote:
That describes a lot of places in this state. icon But seriously, where in NM ya from? I love running into fellow NM folks here on the boards.
I was born in Burque but currently live in Socorro.
Where you from Pol?
ktangent wrote:
Sorry, Pol... the only video game I have played other than WoW in the last 10 years is Doom & Solitare....
Mom?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
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