Is it worth putting 3 points (or any for that matter) in Malediction? I tend to be the one putting CoShadow/CoElements on mobs (also bosses), so I use these curses a lot. Are the worth the points?
I have put 2 points in Improved Curse of Agony which really are a waste, I was thinking of moving them to Malediction, same with Supression (1 point) as I am now at 194 hit. That would be a 41/0/20 build rather than a 43/0/18 build as I have today.
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Yes. In 25 man raids you should have two warlocks who have malediction and use CoS/CoE. That's depending on your setup though, CoE feels like a waste with just the two mages we've had a couple of times, their dmg sucks to begin with :P
Yes, I raid. Lately not doing much but raiding actually. Noone else has Malediction, but it does seem that before I joined the guild noone was using CoS/CoE....
Now we use both CoE and CoS. Normally we are 3 locks in the raid (sometimes 4), where 2 of us do CoS/CoE and the third does CoD.
Now we use both CoE and CoS. Normally we are 3 locks in the raid (sometimes 4), where 2 of us do CoS/CoE and the third does CoD.
Thmpax wrote:
Yes, I raid. Lately not doing much but raiding actually. Noone else has Malediction, but it does seem that before I joined the guild noone was using CoS/CoE....
Now we use both CoE and CoS. Normally we are 3 locks in the raid (sometimes 4), where 2 of us do CoS/CoE and the third does CoD.
Now we use both CoE and CoS. Normally we are 3 locks in the raid (sometimes 4), where 2 of us do CoS/CoE and the third does CoD.
Not to interject, but CoReck is a larger raid DPS boost than CoShadows or CoElements, and it's a hell of a lot more than CoDoom is unless you're running a 10-man with only a single melee.
Malediction is surely worth it. I'm respeccing raid utility or DS/Destro soon and if I'm going utility I'm going to be on CoS w/ Malediction.
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RPZip wrote:
Not to interject, but CoReck is a larger raid DPS boost than CoShadows or CoElements, and it's a hell of a lot more than CoDoom is unless you're running a 10-man with only a single melee.
Could you clarify this a little more ? I think you are right - and I'm having some arguments with some mages who think CoE should be prioritised over CoR.
From my own understanding - the dps uplift is about 6% - which boosts all melee dps - let's say that is approx. 6 raiders plus the tanks.
If there are only 2 Fire/Frost Mages then clearly 2x10% > 6x6% ? Or is there more to it than what I have said ?
Thanks in advance.
RPzip, it does depend really on the makeup of the raid. I've been in some where we had jack crap melee dps, in which case CoRec really wouldn't be needed.
to explain it jugger, generally melee dps outnumbers caster, also armor penetration scales better the more you have. so full sunders + CoRec+ faeri fire = roughly 50% of a bosses armour gone. also this means the tank generates more threat while the damage increase to the boss is minimal AS LONG as it's not a boss that has abilities which scale heavily with AP like heroic strike, blood thirst or enrage.
to explain it jugger, generally melee dps outnumbers caster, also armor penetration scales better the more you have. so full sunders + CoRec+ faeri fire = roughly 50% of a bosses armour gone. also this means the tank generates more threat while the damage increase to the boss is minimal AS LONG as it's not a boss that has abilities which scale heavily with AP like heroic strike, blood thirst or enrage.
I put points in Malediction, and Shadow Embrace. Guess I am the Utility Guy now :-)
gotta love the utility guys, you make the rest of us locks look bad 'cos we're to selfish with our specs.... hehe
Saying CoReck > CoS/CoE hands down is ridiculously short sighted. My last raid involved 5 locks and an SP, along with 3 mages. CoE isn't going to provide a huge boost, but considering the locks are 3/6 top DPS in the raid (interspersed w/ a hunter, the SP and a rogue) you're going to be hard pressed to find any kind of "creative accounting" that makes an additional 13%(5)<6%(10) when the raw DPS his higher on the 5. That being said, all 3 should be up in any raid and trying to figure out which to put up in any in which you can't get all 3? Generally, give it to the biggest DPSers, if they get near the threat ceiling, go to the next group. Don't know who that is? DL SWstats or recount and keep track yourself.
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Saying CoReck > CoS/CoE hands down is ridiculously short sighted. My last raid involved 5 locks and an SP, along with 3 mages. CoE isn't going to provide a huge boost, but considering the locks are 3/6 top DPS in the raid (interspersed w/ a hunter, the SP and a rogue) you're going to be hard pressed to find any kind of "creative accounting" that makes an additional 13%(5)<6%(10) when the raw DPS his higher on the 5.
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Saying CoReck > CoS/CoE hands down is ridiculously short sighted. My last raid involved 5 locks and an SP, along with 3 mages. CoE isn't going to provide a huge boost, but considering the locks are 3/6 top DPS in the raid (interspersed w/ a hunter, the SP and a rogue) you're going to be hard pressed to find any kind of "creative accounting" that makes an additional 13%(5)<6%(10) when the raw DPS his higher on the 5.
It's a fair assumption that in any situation where there's enough Warlocks for CoShadows to be that effective, curse choice isn't exactly an issue. In situations where it is a factor, there are by definition _not many Warlocks_... which limits the effectivness of CoShadows. If you run 5 Shadow Priests and one Warlock then... well, wow, but you'd have a good point.
Even with 3/3 Male, CoE to 3 Mages (13%) is worse than CoReck (~7%, higher on certain bosses and depending upon other sources of ArPen) to some combination of five Hunters, Rogues, DPS Warriors, Retadins, Enhancement Shaman, Feral Druids and even the tanks (it is, after all, an increase in threat)... and you'll have a hell of a lot more than five combined physical DPS in any normal raid situation.
If you have no melee in your 25-man raids, well... that's another issue.
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It's a fair assumption that in any situation where there's enough Warlocks for CoShadows to be that effective, curse choice isn't exactly an issue. In situations where it is a factor, there are by definition _not many Warlocks_... which limits the effectivness of CoShadows. If you run 5 Shadow Priests and one Warlock then... well, wow, but you'd have a good point.
Even with 3/3 Male, CoE to 3 Mages (13%) is worse than CoReck (~7%, higher on certain bosses and depending upon other sources of ArPen) to some combination of five Hunters, Rogues, DPS Warriors, Retadins, Enhancement Shaman, Feral Druids and even the tanks (it is, after all, an increase in threat)... and you'll have a hell of a lot more than five combined physical DPS in any normal raid situation.
If you have no melee in your 25-man raids, well... that's another issue.
Wow, I'm a complete ******. I missed the entire point. You're right, if you've got so few locks that curse selection is an actual factor, chances are you've got enough melees to make CoReck the right curse for the job. Sorry, I don't know how I missed that.
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