BEFORE YOU POST A HEMO THREAD, READ THISFollow

okay
since there's a MILLION questions about it coming up, and im tired of forgetting what hemo threads i posted in... im making a master post

- 2.3 hemo! -

q: what is hemo?
a: a move in the sub tree for rogues, tier 5 talent... it for all intensive purposes REPLACES SS

q: what you mean replaces SS? i <3 ss!
a: its the same kind of move as SS except for a few differences... and if you specced hemo and have appropriate weapons, theres no reason to ever use ss instead of it

q: whats a hemo appropriate weapon??
a: main hand- non-dagger... non-dagger.. NON-DAGGER!! 2.6 speed or slower almost enforced (although with it being normalized its about the same deal as finding a good SS mainhand)

good main hand weapons to start with attainable without raiding:
(good for level 70)
any 2.6 70 pvp blue weapon, any 2.6 arena weapon, edge of the cosmos, reflex blades, vindicators brand, demonblood eviscerator, the blacksmithing epic maces, blinkstrike, the bladefist, bloodskull destroyer
(notables of non-70 levels)
krol blade, level 60 2.9 epic pvp weapons, ravenholdt slicer, nexus-claw, misplaced servo arm

off hand- faster the better, only for shiv and poison purposes... barely important at all, go for high dps... good stats, 1.5 speed or faster (and stick with your weapon spec, MAINLY TRUE FOR SWORDS AND MACES)

q: so why hemo? whats the big deal?
a: its basically (simple terms) a 35 energy SS, that applys a good debuff... being its lower energy cost, it links better with moves ending in x5 energy cost, and it generates CP faster then just imp SS (8 hemos for every 7 SS, doesnt include combat potency)

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USES FOR HEMO!
THE PVP SECTION

basically hemo pvp, to be GOOD (metagame if you will) requires a few moves)

1: hemo
2: prep
3: AR or CB or shadowstep

if you take hemo, you should be also going to get one of those other moves

heres the required 24 point sub build you hafta start with! look here to start
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZZxrfoMhRo

movable points: sleight of hand, ghostly strike.. usually into camo, i do not suggest anything else


now that you got your baseline build
decide your side-spec of hemo...

- i want AR!! -

okay, you got 2 choices to make now... do you want riposte or not?

if you do
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhbEzrVzx00o
is a baseline for your combat tree, you will NEED 24 into sub.. so from here, you have 5 points to put into more combat talents, or assassination for the crit rate, or further sub for more tricks or a ap buff

if you DONT
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhdVbrVzVM0o
is your baseline (dump endurance into more imp snd if you like, but endurance is a better bg farming move... this is the pvp section, so thats my suggestion)

this build from here has 6 loose points to use as you like

(dump imp kick for expertise if you arent crazy about 2 second silence)

- i want cold blood!! -

MOST COLD BLOOD HEMO BUILDS INCLUDE AT LEAST PREMED IN SUB (the tier 7 31 point talent, i suggest you do the same)

note: most if not all cb builds can get imp evis if you like, i just dont like getting that since your CPs will probably be going elsewhere, dumping imp poisons into imp evis is the easiest method

your choices to make
a: just enough for cb
b: more *** then cb, not seal fate
c: i want 5/5 sf!

just enough for cb
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRxbo
this build has 16 lose points... commonly a 21-0-40 for huge agi and ap, but i dont advice this method

more into *** then just cb
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRxrsb
for pvp, all those have nice usage... imp ks + dirty deeds is VICIOUS if you do it right
enjoy your loose 9 points

pvp all the way to SF!
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRxroi
has 7 loose points, just enough for premed.... also here you can move points from fleet footed into imp ks if you REALLY want to, but i advise against it

- im gonna be a shadowstep rogue! -

disclaimer: SHADOWSTEP IS NOT STELLAR, SO DONT EXPECT PVP GOD STATUS WITH IT... VERY USEFUL BUT REQUIRES A LOT OF ATTENTION, IF YOU WANNA BE SERIOUS WITH IT AT ALL... BE WARNED: ITS THE WORST WAY TO KILL PEOPLE LAZILY WHO KNOW HOW TO PVP

that being said
shadowstep comes in combat or burst flavors, most combats dont include riposte

heres your basic 41 points to hit 'step
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZZxrfoMGRoxst
movable points: sinister calling, cheat death, deadliness

a lot of shadowstep builds grab SETUP for the anti rogue/ anti warrior aspect... thats preference

from here, you can go combat to get imp sprint, so your even BETTER anti kiter... or get some decent burst damage by getting lethality and some burst *** talents

0-20-41 and 17-3-41 seem to be the most common

=== which pvp hemo should i be!! helps!! ===

straight up, lets be honest and ruthless

ar/prep is the arena build, works in raids decently, and excels in all areas of pvp

cold blood builds are good for bg farming, good control in most 1v1 fights... falls short in pve, and weak spots in pvp vs high armor

'step is good for bg farming, and a lot of rogues will say is VERY fun, but poorly played is a one-way ticket to death in pvp

most will decide on ar/prep, its a great build.... and anyone who asks, ill suggest ar/prep hands down

-- but i wanna pve!! help me in raiding hemo!! --

no, im here to answer the basic area of hemo, im not interested in pve hemo... ask around for help there

i KNOW pve hemo lacks these moves..

a: prep
b: ar
c: cb
d: shadowstep
e: premed

its a 3 tree build for raid dps and raid dps alone... i dont like it, and im not gonna steer people to it in here



===========================



read that for basic hemos info, that should answer 95% of your questions

if you have any MORE, post in here... and ill GLADLY help you out

if you have a question on pve hemo/raiding hemo, ask with THAT in your thread title... or hopefully nooble will help meout there and ill edit this post

thanks for your time, stop littering our boards lol



Edited, Nov 9th 2007 6:26pm by mongoosexcore

Edited, Dec 13th 2007 9:43pm by mongoosexcore

Informative.

Why would you get elusiveness AND prep, nubsauce?

Because Elusiveness is nice for BG's and world PVP. It's 2 points well spent.

Mut daggers right now because they're the only decent epics I have, but if I can get my hands on some decent slow weapons I'd respec to try a hemo build in a heartbeat.

Nice guide Mongoose hopefully this'll stop so many repetitive questions.

I dont see why people are putting points into sleight of hand. It almost looks like the weakest talents we have.

Eluvisness is for 90 second blind CD, like mongoose mentionned. Blind's getting buffed up, and since you already have Dirty Deeds which increase it's range and reduce the energy cost... why not?

That being said, I'm wondering if Setup might not be better. With the buff to rogue, you can bet they'll be a lot of rogues early in the season. Setup might be the talent to have this season.

Sleight of Hand truly isn't as bad, I've came around on that one and kinda agree with Mongoose on that one.

I think Ghostly Strike has lost a LOT of oomph now that Hemo is 125%. It's basically 5 energy for 15% dodge... it's not necessarily bad... but I'd max out Elusivness or Setup before I take it.



BTW Mongoose, if you want me to sticky this, you're going to have to run it through a spellcheker ;p



Edited, Nov 13th 2007 12:49am by Tyrandor

this is my build--sort of a cross between pve and pvp, jack of all trades, master of none. i wanted combat potency still...basically a combat build but with all the new sub benefits roflcoptor zomg. check it out.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfEz0Vt0MMobxMjoMhRo

ya it's better 10% of the time that a stun or fear effect happens--i agree it's more clutch than vitality, i'd rather have that 90% of the time the hp is better though...

the first time you resist a cheap in a rogue vs rogue duel, or a psy scream when your tearing into a pri, come back and thank me

so worth it

mongoooose.
thats awesome.
but seeing as youre pretty much the hemo lord now since youve stuck by it.
(i respect you for that)
i tried to stick by it, but got funneled to muti, then combat.
i really want cold blood hemo
but that gets owned by the cookie cutter hemo of AR/prep.
and i cant seem to find a happy medium so help a rogue out please?

How does: 0/37/24 sound for 2v2 arena. I'm thinking something like 17/0/44 for BG grinding my PvP Boots/Belt/Rings/Necklace.

I've taken Sleight of hand both times since I only have 1% Crit chance reduction. Seeing as an extra 2% effectively triples that I thought it was worth it. I've also never taken Setup, Heightened senses, or Cheat Death in a build so my 17/0/44 has all of them.

Edited, Nov 16th 2007 1:15am by Flubgaurd

with the new changes to sub tree, i am thinking of trying out the sub tree for pvp purposes.

does weapon swapping still good or necessary? example,
shadowstep -> ambush or backstab(with dagger) -> swap to sword/mace -> hemo ?