With the changes to HotW in 2.3 I was wondering for kitty what the best choices of gems are for blue, yellow and red gems (rare variety in particular).
Also, totally unrelated question, but when I am tanking in bear against a boss and want to stop attacking (ie hit escape), it will de-target the boss, but as soon as the boss hits me I start auto hitting again - how do I turn this off?
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I think Kitty Druids' itemization, gems included, will become closer to a Rogue's. For pure DPS when there's a tank, I suppose Agi/Crit and AP gems will become a Kitty's best bet, unless the amount of Str surpasses the AP by much.
I can't afford to make a list right now, but I'll check that in details once I get home.
As for the target/hit thing, I believe it's in the options, "Interface" for some reason, in the top tier of options or something. Again, I'll check when I get home to make sure unless someone can confirm first.
I can't afford to make a list right now, but I'll check that in details once I get home.
As for the target/hit thing, I believe it's in the options, "Interface" for some reason, in the top tier of options or something. Again, I'll check when I get home to make sure unless someone can confirm first.
Yeah, Rogue gear essentially becomes viable for us at this point, getting massive amounts of raw AP.
I'd wager AP gems (assuming you have your hit rating covered) will be our best bet after 2.3, but I'm not a good enough theorycrafter to really work out the nittygritty of it.
Edited, Nov 8th 2007 4:59pm by Norellicus
I'd wager AP gems (assuming you have your hit rating covered) will be our best bet after 2.3, but I'm not a good enough theorycrafter to really work out the nittygritty of it.
Edited, Nov 8th 2007 4:59pm by Norellicus
I know that 8 strength gives 16 ap for all classes but rogues. But don't kitties get something liek 2.4 AP per 1 strength when all the math is said & done? The only classes i ever see with raw ap gems are us rogues, simply because its the only way we can get more than 8 ap per gem.
The way I understand the coming change, HotW will boost total attack power by 10%, instead of boosting our strength by 20%. Right?
So...
Today
+1 strength * 120% from HotW = 1.2 strength * 2 for cat form = 2.4 AP
+1 attack power = 1 AP
+1 agility = 1 AP and some crit
After 2.3
+1 strength = 2 AP * 110% from HotW = 2.2 AP
+1 attack power = 1 AP * 110% from HotW = 1.1 AP
+1 agility = 1 AP * 110% from HotW = 1.1 AP and some crit
Since agility (which us ferals have a lot of) will now benefit from the HotW multiplier as part of total attack power, I think the change will pretty much be a wash in terms of changing our AP when the change takes effect. I think.
In terms of gear, The relative value of strength to AP is coming down from 2.4:1 to 2:1, so rogue gear with raw +AP will benefit us more than it does today, but strength is still twice as valuable, point-for-point.
Comparably priced gems tend to be in 1:2 increments anyway (i.e. you can get +8 strength or +16 attack power) so the +8 strength gem will now be worth the SAME as +16 AP, not more. Which means there's no use resocketing AP over strength, just in the future the AP gem becomes an equal option in the AH.
Edited, Nov 8th 2007 3:14pm by JeeBar
So...
Today
+1 strength * 120% from HotW = 1.2 strength * 2 for cat form = 2.4 AP
+1 attack power = 1 AP
+1 agility = 1 AP and some crit
After 2.3
+1 strength = 2 AP * 110% from HotW = 2.2 AP
+1 attack power = 1 AP * 110% from HotW = 1.1 AP
+1 agility = 1 AP * 110% from HotW = 1.1 AP and some crit
Since agility (which us ferals have a lot of) will now benefit from the HotW multiplier as part of total attack power, I think the change will pretty much be a wash in terms of changing our AP when the change takes effect. I think.
In terms of gear, The relative value of strength to AP is coming down from 2.4:1 to 2:1, so rogue gear with raw +AP will benefit us more than it does today, but strength is still twice as valuable, point-for-point.
Comparably priced gems tend to be in 1:2 increments anyway (i.e. you can get +8 strength or +16 attack power) so the +8 strength gem will now be worth the SAME as +16 AP, not more. Which means there's no use resocketing AP over strength, just in the future the AP gem becomes an equal option in the AH.
Edited, Nov 8th 2007 3:14pm by JeeBar
Quote:
But don't kitties get something liek 2.4 AP per 1 strength when all the math is said & done?
Indeed, for the moment that's what it is.
Druid AP = Str X 2.
HotW talent means 20% more Str while in Kitty form so 1.2 X 2 = 2.4 AP per Str.
However, in the 2.3 patch, which is what this thread is about, the talent will change and boost AP directly instead of Str but by 10% instead of 20%. It balances out because of the many staffs with lots of +Feral AP.
Because of that, it simply means that Str and AP will have equal value on items of the same level, rather than have Str as a favored stat. For example, let's take very basic gems. The Bold Tourmaline (+4 Str) and Bright Tourmaline (+8 AP).
Pre-2.3:
4 Str in Kitty is 4.8 Str, so 9.6 AP.
This would thus be superior than a straight 8 AP.
Post-2.3
4 Str will remain 4 Str, so 8 AP at all times. In Kitty, this increases to 8.8 AP.
8 AP will also give 8 AP at all times (duh >_>) and in Kitty will increase to 8.8 also.
Thus, if all other stats are the same, an item with Str will require more than half the other item's AP in Str to be superior while the AP item will require more than twice the other item's Str in AP to be superior.
Dunno if that last bit was clear though. If it's not just skip it and stick to the maths. Someone tell me if I missed anything.
So yeah, AP and Str will now become pretty much equal so just go with whatever gives the most in the end.
Also, about that thing where you hit a mob after untargetting it, I could reproduce it when I had "Auto attack when assist" on but not when it was off. Maybe it's related or maybe I was unlucky. Could also be an addon of yours. With the option on or off it didn't happen much and required good timing.
for gems, pretty much what jeebar said. str = ap now, instead of str being > ap. all the change really does is make rogue items useful to druids.
for the tanking thing, try hammering the escape button until the interface menu comes up. sometimes when you hit esc to cancel an attack and de-target the enemy the enemy attacks you immediately after, and due to lag issues, the game sees you as still attacking, so you continue to attack.
for the tanking thing, try hammering the escape button until the interface menu comes up. sometimes when you hit esc to cancel an attack and de-target the enemy the enemy attacks you immediately after, and due to lag issues, the game sees you as still attacking, so you continue to attack.
Or just click off attack on your action bar. works wonders. doesnt deselect target. Does stop attack. Of course you have to click on it again to start attacking again.
Yeah what those guys said :), but try pressing "t" (thats the default one) it will stop you auto-attacking (press it again, and you will start auto-attacking again :))
Try opening your spellbook and drag the "attack"-button down to your action bar, when you are attacking, it will blink red, so when it does, you are attacking, hehe. I have 2 of those down on my action-bar
I press "t" when I need to stop attacking someone/something, much better than pressing esc, IMO :)
Try opening your spellbook and drag the "attack"-button down to your action bar, when you are attacking, it will blink red, so when it does, you are attacking, hehe. I have 2 of those down on my action-bar
I press "t" when I need to stop attacking someone/something, much better than pressing esc, IMO :)
The best gem options for dps will be the same after 2.3 as they have been: 8 agi is the best for a red socket, 4 agi + 4 hit for yellow if you can use the hit rating, and 4 agi + 6 sta for blue. That's if it's worth matching the colors for socket bonuses or meta gem requirements; otherwise use all agility.
1 str will still be better than 2 AP after 2.3, since str gains from paladins' Blessing of Kings (*1.1) and our own Survival of the Fittest (*1.03).
When you're over ~2000 AP (basically a given, especially with any added buffs), agi has been better than str point for point; this will just be accentuated in 2.3.
1 str will still be better than 2 AP after 2.3, since str gains from paladins' Blessing of Kings (*1.1) and our own Survival of the Fittest (*1.03).
When you're over ~2000 AP (basically a given, especially with any added buffs), agi has been better than str point for point; this will just be accentuated in 2.3.
Incidentally (though this is off-topic for druids, but since it was brought up), rogues should not be using AP gems either but should gem entirely for hit (up to the cap) and agility. Perhaps AP gems are useful to non-Survival-spec hunters?
I can't say I have deep enough knowledge of Rogues and Hunters to say. =/
In my mind Rogues just needed AP... perhaps I'm wrong. :O
In my mind Rogues just needed AP... perhaps I'm wrong. :O
every rogue i know stacks AP over hit. hit and crit are good, but AP helps more than capping out the 24% +hit they need to stop misses completely.
as for attack on the hotbar, it CAN work, but i havent had attack on my hotbar in over two years. that real estate is too important to dedicate to something i can turn off and on with T.
as for attack on the hotbar, it CAN work, but i havent had attack on my hotbar in over two years. that real estate is too important to dedicate to something i can turn off and on with T.
This post is unambiguous in its conclusions, which are supported by solid analysis.
The rogues you know may have gear and talent builds that differ significantly from what is assumed there. But even with at lower gear levels missing some of the procs that make hit rating so good, it has a long way to drop from the buffer listed there before it's not worth stacking. Have those rogues checked that it is actually less valuable for them, or are they playing by feel or simply not concerned with absolutely maimizing dps?
The rogues you know may have gear and talent builds that differ significantly from what is assumed there. But even with at lower gear levels missing some of the procs that make hit rating so good, it has a long way to drop from the buffer listed there before it's not worth stacking. Have those rogues checked that it is actually less valuable for them, or are they playing by feel or simply not concerned with absolutely maimizing dps?
Ok as a raiding rogue i can say that for the most part Hit > all. Right up to the hit cap, but this has to be taken into acount of gear. Kara/t4 gear has MUCH mor e+hit that SSC/Eye/t5 stuff does.
Once you reach about 220-250 hit in its current stat stats like agility become more important (for blessing of kings).
Stacking +ap is only good until you start raiding 25mans w/ more than one pally ,in which agility will slowly start passing raw ap. Also the benefit of crit gains is there as well. Stacking raw crit is useless, because it doesn't benefit from kings either. I currently have a lot of +AP gems, but that will start changing for AGI/HIT as we move into T5 raids.
Note that with the 2.3 hemo buffs and goodies hit might (note i said might, very tiny might) not be the "zomg#1 gem" to socket for raiding once it has reached an acceptable lvl.
The gain from hit is linear more hit always = the same % gain in dps, whereas a bit more Ap really might not make as big a dent at 1700 Ap.
Just wanted to correct osme misconceptions some might have about rogue stats.
Once you reach about 220-250 hit in its current stat stats like agility become more important (for blessing of kings).
Stacking +ap is only good until you start raiding 25mans w/ more than one pally ,in which agility will slowly start passing raw ap. Also the benefit of crit gains is there as well. Stacking raw crit is useless, because it doesn't benefit from kings either. I currently have a lot of +AP gems, but that will start changing for AGI/HIT as we move into T5 raids.
Note that with the 2.3 hemo buffs and goodies hit might (note i said might, very tiny might) not be the "zomg#1 gem" to socket for raiding once it has reached an acceptable lvl.
The gain from hit is linear more hit always = the same % gain in dps, whereas a bit more Ap really might not make as big a dent at 1700 Ap.
Just wanted to correct osme misconceptions some might have about rogue stats.
but AP helps more than capping out the 24% +hit they need to stop misses completely.
Few things help increase melee Dps more than not missing your target.
Quote:
Ok as a raiding rogue i can say that for the most part Hit > all. Right up to the hit cap, but this has to be taken into acount of gear. Kara/t4 gear has MUCH mor e+hit that SSC/Eye/t5 stuff does.
Once you reach about 220-250 hit in its current stat stats like agility become more important (for blessing of kings).
Stacking +ap is only good until you start raiding 25mans w/ more than one pally ,in which agility will slowly start passing raw ap. Also the benefit of crit gains is there as well. Stacking raw crit is useless, because it doesn't benefit from kings either. I currently have a lot of +AP gems, but that will start changing for AGI/HIT as we move into T5 raids.
Once you reach about 220-250 hit in its current stat stats like agility become more important (for blessing of kings).
Stacking +ap is only good until you start raiding 25mans w/ more than one pally ,in which agility will slowly start passing raw ap. Also the benefit of crit gains is there as well. Stacking raw crit is useless, because it doesn't benefit from kings either. I currently have a lot of +AP gems, but that will start changing for AGI/HIT as we move into T5 raids.
this is the best analysis ive seen of things so far.
as far as AP vs hit, one thing many people forget is that yellow damage is only affected by 6% +hit, whereas ap/agi continue to benefit yellow damage no matter how much of it you stack. how a rogue gems exactly is dependent on a number of things, but nearly every raiding rogue ive seen, even the deep combat rogues, dont worry about +hit past the 11 or 12% mark. it just takes too much work to get more hit than that, and making specials and normal attacks hit harder becomes more important than making normal attacks hit more often. thus, the balance usually struck is to maintain a +hit around the 11-12% mark and then focus on either raw AP or raw agi (or, again, a mix of both, based on preference and so forth).
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