Hello again fellow rawriors. Todays question is on tanking in the 60's. My question is, do you guys think its possible to tank by the way of "brute force". I'm going to try and tank the same way I have up to this point in my war career, spamming HS,TC and Revenge. I don't use sunder on trash with this build since I seem to get more threat with HS/revenge spamming. This has worked very well for me so long as I keep a fast weapon to tank(which I prefer 100x over a hard hitting slower one.)
My current spec is 17/31/3, the rest of my talents will go into max anticipation and still debating on Toughness or shield spec for the remainder. I'm going full prot at 70, but don't want to try it by lv 65 or w/e because I'm obviously going to have to quest some for my xp too.
Heres an armory link. Comments, constructive criticism etc is welcomed. I wanna hear from your old as Gyff =P, since you just went through it.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Fenris&n=Totao
Also, my tanking set consists of 4 pieces -of the champion, legs,hands,head,feet. I have the body also but I like to use what I have now over that.
Edited, Nov 6th 2007 4:22pm by givingitatry
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Yay, it's 5:30 time to clock out of work and Alla!!
From a glance, I'd look for +hit. Right now you're sitting at +2% to hit <same level mob>. DW'ing you're what? 24% miss with the off hand? I don't know the numbers, but I suggest looking for +hit and +atk (since 1H need all the +atk they can get).
I DW also, and my gear is not where I want it to be (even from non-heroics). I'm prolly log'd in my tanking junk. I'll log out in my shoddy dps junk tonight lol.
As always anyone see suggestions please PM me. *I'm to self-conscience to make a rate me post lol. My tanking gear is not shabby for non-epics, almost ready for Heroics IMO.... but again feel free to rate. I know I need some of the "of the Bold" stuff... Just not dropping :/
From a glance, I'd look for +hit. Right now you're sitting at +2% to hit <same level mob>. DW'ing you're what? 24% miss with the off hand? I don't know the numbers, but I suggest looking for +hit and +atk (since 1H need all the +atk they can get).
I DW also, and my gear is not where I want it to be (even from non-heroics). I'm prolly log'd in my tanking junk. I'll log out in my shoddy dps junk tonight lol.
As always anyone see suggestions please PM me. *I'm to self-conscience to make a rate me post lol. My tanking gear is not shabby for non-epics, almost ready for Heroics IMO.... but again feel free to rate. I know I need some of the "of the Bold" stuff... Just not dropping :/
you can tank just fine up until 70 provided your gear keeps getting better. The shorter fights really don't need a sunder, which is usually what trash fights are...
I won't critique your gear or spec choice here since this was supposed to be a tanking thread :)
stay DPS until 70 then go full prot if you so desire. there really isn't any point to go prot before then, unless you're severely trying to make up for the groups bad healing / dps to survive a little longer.
I won't critique your gear or spec choice here since this was supposed to be a tanking thread :)
stay DPS until 70 then go full prot if you so desire. there really isn't any point to go prot before then, unless you're severely trying to make up for the groups bad healing / dps to survive a little longer.
Bah, another 9-5 new work day 
Looking a bit closer at your gear... I'd suggest questing in Outland areas. There should be quest that will replace your current bracers and other lower level items.
Again, I go for +hit... I really need to go for +attack also, but right now I'm looking at +hit/+crit (not sure what I was thinking...21% crit in berserker tho lol). Take a look: Gyffordsox
*edit* looked the post over 2x.. and just now caught the question :/ So busy at work.
Hmm, tanking w/o Sunder. WorkWork *gyfford is acting as a Lazy Peon*
I dunno actually, never tried w/o Sundering at least 3 or 4 times per trash mob. Maybe only 1-2 times with a shield bash. To me Sunders are cheap and fast way to get that inital threat needed.
The only thing I can see about HS tanking... is you'll have to wait for the aggro. HS is your normal attacks, just amp'ed up a bit. Good Threat generation, but I'd imagine it'd be like a train... slow to get started, but works in the long run.
I like Sunders because it does not effect my normal attacks (which helps dump on the threat), normal attacks also give me rage, HS takes Rage away. Also, what cost less rage? HS or Sunder?
Tank however you're comfortable, if it works please feel free to share it. You may help someone down the road. On paper it sounds like it would work.
Hope some of that helps?
Edited, Nov 7th 2007 12:36pm by GYFFORD
Looking a bit closer at your gear... I'd suggest questing in Outland areas. There should be quest that will replace your current bracers and other lower level items.
Again, I go for +hit... I really need to go for +attack also, but right now I'm looking at +hit/+crit (not sure what I was thinking...21% crit in berserker tho lol). Take a look: Gyffordsox
*edit* looked the post over 2x.. and just now caught the question :/ So busy at work.
Hmm, tanking w/o Sunder. WorkWork *gyfford is acting as a Lazy Peon*
I dunno actually, never tried w/o Sundering at least 3 or 4 times per trash mob. Maybe only 1-2 times with a shield bash. To me Sunders are cheap and fast way to get that inital threat needed.
Quote:
spamming HS,TC and Revenge. I don't use sunder on trash with this build since I seem to get more threat with HS/revenge spamming
The only thing I can see about HS tanking... is you'll have to wait for the aggro. HS is your normal attacks, just amp'ed up a bit. Good Threat generation, but I'd imagine it'd be like a train... slow to get started, but works in the long run.
I like Sunders because it does not effect my normal attacks (which helps dump on the threat), normal attacks also give me rage, HS takes Rage away. Also, what cost less rage? HS or Sunder?
Tank however you're comfortable, if it works please feel free to share it. You may help someone down the road. On paper it sounds like it would work.
Hope some of that helps?
Edited, Nov 7th 2007 12:36pm by GYFFORD
Quote:
I'm going full prot at 70, but don't want to try it by lv 65 or w/e because I'm obviously going to have to quest some for my xp too.
I've been full prot since my low 50s and most of my questing through that period was done solo as well. You just learn different techniques and while you kill stuff slower, you take less damage too so your downtime is often less. I guess it was easy for me though since I never got used to the high damage builds so there was nothing for me to 'miss'. It's not for everyone but it does make tanking a heck of a lot easier.
Quote:
I'm going to try and tank the same way I have up to this point in my war career, spamming HS,TC and Revenge. I don't use sunder on trash with this build since I seem to get more threat with HS/revenge spamming.
I don't use sunder as much on trash now as I have been improving my technique. I do use TC a lot plus Demo Shout too if I'm trying to hold multiple mobs. I use my Shield Block a lot because it has good threat and reduces my damage taken. I still use sunders mixed in and HS (and Cleave on multiples) are my rage dumps when I have spare rage. For bosses I try to get my full 5 sunders in so I can spam Devastate and HS in between the Shield Blocks.
Dang, Gyf - Your DPS setup looks a lot better than mine. I'm still slowly working on gear but I keep getting distracted by my alts lately. :)
Yey for another day at work.
Gyff- I think you were still have asleep when you checked my profile. All my gear except my bracers are outland quest rewards and random crap I've found in the AH. Would I like more +hit...Sure, but I've yet to find any on the AH/Quests. I'm honestly not worried about it, I hit quest mobs well enough. The secret is don't pick fights with mobs 2-3 lvs higher or you're gonna have mucho down time. I stay with mobs my lv(1-2 lower than me preferebly, something I learned from FF, 4 kills at 400xp is more than 2 at 550 in the same amount of time). 1-2 lvs is the most that I'll pick above me, I don't mind the mob evading me some, thats why I have Improved Overpower.
To the rest of you guys thanks for the re-assurance. My gear will get better and better as I progress I'm sure. Money is no object to me so I usually pick up the best I could from the AH even if its just for 2-3 lvs of usage. Yesterday I had to storm out of work, but I wanted to add I ran ramparts twice on this guy Sun afternoon. once as DPS because we had 3 wars, the other two were lv 64 so one said he'll tank(which I didnt mind). I finished 2nd on the damage meters next to a lv 62 enchancement shammy, beating out the lv 64 war(who was not well equipped). We wiped at the last guy(forget his name, the guy with the dragon) and called it a night.
Then Sun evening I tanked the ramparts, setup was me,66 pld,59 priest,61lock and the same 62 shammy I had run with earlier in the day. I had a hell of a time holding aggro for the first half with that Longsword I have equipped on the link(didnt have enough rep to buy the grunts waraxe yet). So midway I switched to the flurry axe(35.2dps compared to 52.9)and held aggro just fine, which is the reason that imo speed > all for a tanking weapon. I was finding myself with a full rage bar and just couldn't dump it fast enough with the slow weapon.
Anyway thanks again, I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.
Gyff- I think you were still have asleep when you checked my profile. All my gear except my bracers are outland quest rewards and random crap I've found in the AH. Would I like more +hit...Sure, but I've yet to find any on the AH/Quests. I'm honestly not worried about it, I hit quest mobs well enough. The secret is don't pick fights with mobs 2-3 lvs higher or you're gonna have mucho down time. I stay with mobs my lv(1-2 lower than me preferebly, something I learned from FF, 4 kills at 400xp is more than 2 at 550 in the same amount of time). 1-2 lvs is the most that I'll pick above me, I don't mind the mob evading me some, thats why I have Improved Overpower.
To the rest of you guys thanks for the re-assurance. My gear will get better and better as I progress I'm sure. Money is no object to me so I usually pick up the best I could from the AH even if its just for 2-3 lvs of usage. Yesterday I had to storm out of work, but I wanted to add I ran ramparts twice on this guy Sun afternoon. once as DPS because we had 3 wars, the other two were lv 64 so one said he'll tank(which I didnt mind). I finished 2nd on the damage meters next to a lv 62 enchancement shammy, beating out the lv 64 war(who was not well equipped). We wiped at the last guy(forget his name, the guy with the dragon) and called it a night.
Then Sun evening I tanked the ramparts, setup was me,66 pld,59 priest,61lock and the same 62 shammy I had run with earlier in the day. I had a hell of a time holding aggro for the first half with that Longsword I have equipped on the link(didnt have enough rep to buy the grunts waraxe yet). So midway I switched to the flurry axe(35.2dps compared to 52.9)and held aggro just fine, which is the reason that imo speed > all for a tanking weapon. I was finding myself with a full rage bar and just couldn't dump it fast enough with the slow weapon.
Anyway thanks again, I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.
Quote:
Looking a bit closer at your gear... I'd suggest questing in Outland areas. There should be quest that will replace your current bracers and other lower level items.
I only ment for things with +hit attached to them. I have not found to many items via the AH with +hit (My legs of the Shattered ...something, but muy expensive, have +hit- I think lol).
I ment you can quest for some nice items with +hit, not just plain ol' better items lol.
Hope you seen the HS edit I had up there. I'd love to hear the cons of my stance about HS tanking.
Edited, Nov 7th 2007 1:18pm by GYFFORD
Actually I missed your edit up there, but read it now. HS and Sunder is the same rage cost. HS spamming is more threat from the get-go believe it or not.(With my setup) What you need for that is a very fast weapon for it to work well. I like 1.9 weapon speed or lower, the lower the better. However I don't believe it would work with a regular prot setup because you're going to lack a lot of strengh/AP from the fury talents, the one I think you'd miss the most would be enrage/flurry. Also deep wounds/impale would be greatly missed. Thats why I like to call it the "brute" way to go about tanking, its giving a beating while taking it.
I've actually never specced Prot, so I have no idea how prot tanking is done. W/E I decide to change to it I'll just take my guildies on a few death runs till I get good at it hehe. /rubshandstogether with evil grin.
EDIT: I actually forgot, no one mentioned about the rest of my talent points, would I be better of putting them into anticipation and then the rest in toughness or shield block??? Or should I just keep going into the fury tree and pick up Precision and idk something else, I'm kinda doing this in a hurry so I'm not actually looking at the talent trees while doing this.
Edited, Nov 7th 2007 12:44pm by givingitatry
I've actually never specced Prot, so I have no idea how prot tanking is done. W/E I decide to change to it I'll just take my guildies on a few death runs till I get good at it hehe. /rubshandstogether with evil grin.
EDIT: I actually forgot, no one mentioned about the rest of my talent points, would I be better of putting them into anticipation and then the rest in toughness or shield block??? Or should I just keep going into the fury tree and pick up Precision and idk something else, I'm kinda doing this in a hurry so I'm not actually looking at the talent trees while doing this.
Edited, Nov 7th 2007 12:44pm by givingitatry
I still say HS spamming will make you go thru rage like H2O, because unlike Sunder where you get your normal auto attack for rage, you won't get that extra rage. Again, if it's working go for it. I'm just a big conservative (Democrate), so I prolly won't try it. The whole if it's ain't broken don't fix it motto lol.
That's kind of tricky. Are you looking to tank better (less damage) or DPS more with Precision?
I've always been a 'All or Nothing' kind of guy. If you're looking to tank, may as well go almost all Protect lol. DPS well all fury or arms (Fury preferred here). Now with exceptions on like 8-10 points on a different tree (mostly furry, with very little Arms... my T-rex package)
In that build, I'd suggest Precision. That will help hit the elites you're tanking.
Edited, Nov 7th 2007 2:44pm by GYFFORD
Quote:
EDIT: I actually forgot, no one mentioned about the rest of my talent points, would I be better of putting them into anticipation and then the rest in toughness or shield block??? Or should I just keep going into the fury tree and pick up Precision and idk something else, I'm kinda doing this in a hurry so I'm not actually looking at the talent trees while doing this.
That's kind of tricky. Are you looking to tank better (less damage) or DPS more with Precision?
I've always been a 'All or Nothing' kind of guy. If you're looking to tank, may as well go almost all Protect lol. DPS well all fury or arms (Fury preferred here). Now with exceptions on like 8-10 points on a different tree (mostly furry, with very little Arms... my T-rex package)
In that build, I'd suggest Precision. That will help hit the elites you're tanking.
Edited, Nov 7th 2007 2:44pm by GYFFORD
Quote:
still say HS spamming will make you go thru rage like H2O.
Not really, its the same rage cost. Me thinks you might be tanking with too slow a weapon, rage is never a problem for me. As far as precision, I'll give it some more thought. Not sure what I want to do yet.
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