Greetings to all! Been coming here and reading for awhile, finally decided to register and post. I noticed a ton of threads about Ret and Prot pallys, but not alot about Holy pallys. So I'm hoping to get some tips from any Holys out there on a few questions I'm having:
A few points about my style of playing that may be relevant:
- I usually play solo because my guild sucks and i hate playing with strangers.
- I have tried 2 handed weapons and Sword/Shield and prefer the 2h by far
- Currently at Lvl 46 with a 21-11-5 split on talents. I wanted BOK in Prot.
- Currently Lvl 220 Goblin Engineer-for making dynamite for ranged attacks
Here is what I'd like to know:
1) Is Holy Shock (along with using Judgement) going to be enough of a ranged attack so I can drop Engineering? I am thinking of a 2nd gathering skill (skinning) to go along with my mining skill.
2) Should I really be using a 1h weapon instead of a 2h? It took so much longer for me to kill mobs, I would be dead if I tried to take on 2 or 3 mobs with a 1h-even with the extra armor and block.
3) I sunk 5 points into Divine Strength, but every guide I've seen says I should have sunk 5 into Divine Intellect instead. Should I respec to correct this or just put 5 points into DI on top of the 5 in DS?
Thanks!
HarryCheeks
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Well, I've never been Holy, but I think I can answer your questions sufficiently.
1) Holy Shock should be plenty sufficient for a ranged attack. Judgement's range is so low, I wouldn't really consider it ranged cause anything you get in close enough to judge is gonna aggro before you get the spell off anyway (assuming you're not already in combat of course). On the other hand, Engineering does have a lot of neat toys besides just getting a ranged attack for Paladins. The Goggles you can make at 70 are very very nice, and come next patch, they'll be able to make their own flying mounts :P But if you don't care about the toys, you should be safe picking up that other gathering skill.
2) At your level a 2H is just fine. A 1H+shield would be just fine as well. More of a preference thing right now for you as you should be able to find some 1 and 2 handers with healing and/or spell damage on them which is what you'll want. At the higher levels in Outland it'll be harder to find a good spell 2H, so most switch to sword and board.
3) Divine Strength for any build, particularly heavy in Holy, is a waste of 5 talent points. You're not gonna do much "white damage" or block much damage with a shield as Holy. It can be argued to be good for Ret which focus more on "Warrior" stats and gear, and even a bit for Prot to improve the damage they absorb with a shield, but even then the + is very minor compared with the other talents those specs could get instead. If you have the money to spare to get rid of Divine Strength in favor of Intellect, I would suggest doing so.
Hope that helped some :)
EDIT: added the part about Outland in number 2.
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 4:19pm by Maulgak
1) Holy Shock should be plenty sufficient for a ranged attack. Judgement's range is so low, I wouldn't really consider it ranged cause anything you get in close enough to judge is gonna aggro before you get the spell off anyway (assuming you're not already in combat of course). On the other hand, Engineering does have a lot of neat toys besides just getting a ranged attack for Paladins. The Goggles you can make at 70 are very very nice, and come next patch, they'll be able to make their own flying mounts :P But if you don't care about the toys, you should be safe picking up that other gathering skill.
2) At your level a 2H is just fine. A 1H+shield would be just fine as well. More of a preference thing right now for you as you should be able to find some 1 and 2 handers with healing and/or spell damage on them which is what you'll want. At the higher levels in Outland it'll be harder to find a good spell 2H, so most switch to sword and board.
3) Divine Strength for any build, particularly heavy in Holy, is a waste of 5 talent points. You're not gonna do much "white damage" or block much damage with a shield as Holy. It can be argued to be good for Ret which focus more on "Warrior" stats and gear, and even a bit for Prot to improve the damage they absorb with a shield, but even then the + is very minor compared with the other talents those specs could get instead. If you have the money to spare to get rid of Divine Strength in favor of Intellect, I would suggest doing so.
Hope that helped some :)
EDIT: added the part about Outland in number 2.
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 4:19pm by Maulgak
5 posts
Thanks for the reply. Couple of follow up points:
1) If I did drop Eng., how would I open locked chests without my seaform bombs? I don't want to go back to blacksmithing just for the ability to make keys-seems like a waste of a talent.
That leaves me with either a) locating and paying a rogue to open it for me or b) using one of my other characters to make keys and mail them to my pally. Is there a third option I'm overlooking?
2) On the gear I equip-I've been focusing on STR and STM bonuses-to the point where my strength is over 220 and stamina over 200. As a Holy Pally-should I be looking for gear with bonuses to INT (currently 93) or another attribute instead?
3) I keep finding myself running up beside my tank in groups to use my melee weapon to help kill the mobs faster. Am I supposed to be sitting back with the Priests/Mages and guarding them? I know it varies from group to group-but where should I usually be lining up?
4) I'm going to respec my talents but was wondering if Aura Mastery was worth the talent point or not. If I should be hanging back (see#3 above) I'm thinking it would be a good idea. Thoughts?
Thanks again for the suggestions-I appreciate the feedback.
HarryCheeks
1) If I did drop Eng., how would I open locked chests without my seaform bombs? I don't want to go back to blacksmithing just for the ability to make keys-seems like a waste of a talent.
That leaves me with either a) locating and paying a rogue to open it for me or b) using one of my other characters to make keys and mail them to my pally. Is there a third option I'm overlooking?
2) On the gear I equip-I've been focusing on STR and STM bonuses-to the point where my strength is over 220 and stamina over 200. As a Holy Pally-should I be looking for gear with bonuses to INT (currently 93) or another attribute instead?
3) I keep finding myself running up beside my tank in groups to use my melee weapon to help kill the mobs faster. Am I supposed to be sitting back with the Priests/Mages and guarding them? I know it varies from group to group-but where should I usually be lining up?
4) I'm going to respec my talents but was wondering if Aura Mastery was worth the talent point or not. If I should be hanging back (see#3 above) I'm thinking it would be a good idea. Thoughts?
Thanks again for the suggestions-I appreciate the feedback.
HarryCheeks
1) Nope, without engineering or keys, you'd need to find a Rogue. Sucks as I love the idea of being able to bash them open with a 2H, but not gonna happen :P
2) As with the Divine Strength talent, ditch the strength on your gear as well. Again at your level your gear isn't going to be a huge decision, but the higher you get the more important it will become. Gather Intel, Stamina, and where you can add some +spell damage for your soloing gear (+healing for if/when you go to an instance).
And crap, I gotta get running, but if the rest aren't answered by the time I can post again, I'll finish up :)
2) As with the Divine Strength talent, ditch the strength on your gear as well. Again at your level your gear isn't going to be a huge decision, but the higher you get the more important it will become. Gather Intel, Stamina, and where you can add some +spell damage for your soloing gear (+healing for if/when you go to an instance).
And crap, I gotta get running, but if the rest aren't answered by the time I can post again, I'll finish up :)
2 sets of gear solo and healing groups.
5 posts
My bank is already the equivalent of a 2-car garage so full of U-haul boxes that you can't park in it. Mining materials, engineering parts, assorted quest items, etc.
I bought a 3rd bag slot and upgraded my bags to 10-slot minimum each. Unfortunately the 1st Law of Clutter kicked in and the clutter immediately spawned to fill up the new space.
I've even got a couple of backup characters I've taken to using just to expand my inventory of half-finished crap.
Sorry for the rant-but I really, really hate clutter. LOL
HC
I bought a 3rd bag slot and upgraded my bags to 10-slot minimum each. Unfortunately the 1st Law of Clutter kicked in and the clutter immediately spawned to fill up the new space.
I've even got a couple of backup characters I've taken to using just to expand my inventory of half-finished crap.
Sorry for the rant-but I really, really hate clutter. LOL
HC
make a mule aka a toon you dont play that holds crap like that and when your ready to up trade skills again you mail back to main. buy bigger bags you should have 14 slot bags. if i remember right 96 nether makes 4-5 16 slot bags. it's alot cheaper to buy mats for bags than the bags them selves.
edit. you should be carrying around two sets on you not in bank also. one 14 slot will hold most of what you need. never know when yuo will get invite to group.
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 11:47pm by punkspider
edit. you should be carrying around two sets on you not in bank also. one 14 slot will hold most of what you need. never know when yuo will get invite to group.
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 11:47pm by punkspider
HarryCheeks wrote:
Sorry for the rant-but I really, really hate clutter.
The condition of your bank says otherwise
I would never recommend Holy to anyone that isn't end game or getting close to end game.
Holy is the slowest leveling, more unfriendly solo build a paladin has. Worse pre-burning crusade there is no gear to support the build for solo play, and precious few for those holy pallies looking to level exclusively in dungeons as healers. Can't state it strongly enough, Holy is great for end game healing, not good for anything else.
If you are lvl 46 either Ret or Prot will be infinitely better suited to your needs.
Holy is the slowest leveling, more unfriendly solo build a paladin has. Worse pre-burning crusade there is no gear to support the build for solo play, and precious few for those holy pallies looking to level exclusively in dungeons as healers. Can't state it strongly enough, Holy is great for end game healing, not good for anything else.
If you are lvl 46 either Ret or Prot will be infinitely better suited to your needs.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
HarryCheeks wrote:
Thanks for the reply. Couple of follow up points:
1) If I did drop Eng., how would I open locked chests without my seaform bombs? I don't want to go back to blacksmithing just for the ability to make keys-seems like a waste of a talent.
That leaves me with either a) locating and paying a rogue to open it for me or b) using one of my other characters to make keys and mail them to my pally. Is there a third option I'm overlooking?
1) If I did drop Eng., how would I open locked chests without my seaform bombs? I don't want to go back to blacksmithing just for the ability to make keys-seems like a waste of a talent.
That leaves me with either a) locating and paying a rogue to open it for me or b) using one of my other characters to make keys and mail them to my pally. Is there a third option I'm overlooking?
nope, bs'ing and eng and rogues are the only way to open locks pre-bc. in BC only rogues can so don't keep it just for that. honestly lvl'ing up eng might be fun, but especially at the higher lvls holy is a bit slower queting and therefore making money. a second gathering skill would help offset that. i have BS'ing and regret it. keep wanting to change it, but hate to have lvl another skill.
HarryCheeks wrote:
2) On the gear I equip-I've been focusing on STR and STM bonuses-to the point where my strength is over 220 and stamina over 200. As a Holy Pally-should I be looking for gear with bonuses to INT (currently 93) or another attribute instead?
i suppose you could definitely use a str set for solo'ing at your level, but definitely start finding an Int/stam/+healing set. as you can replace your str set with a spell damage set. spell damage will do much more for your dps than str as a holy pally. on that note you asked in your first post about 1h vs 2h. 2h for most grinding, and when your healing shield and +healing/int 1h.
HarryCheeks wrote:
3) I keep finding myself running up beside my tank in groups to use my melee weapon to help kill the mobs faster. Am I supposed to be sitting back with the Priests/Mages and guarding them? I know it varies from group to group-but where should I usually be lining up?
low lvl any pally can contribute to the killing very easily, mid lvl, you can probably tank easy enough, or provide some damage dealing. but the higher you get the more you want to stay in your spec. as a holy paly you're saying you want to be healer. as healer you should be as far back as you can and still heal everyone in your party. the only reason for you to get closer is to judge appropriate seals or get in LoS to heal.
HarryCheeks wrote:
4) I'm going to respec my talents but was wondering if Aura Mastery was worth the talent point or not. If I should be hanging back (see#3 above) I'm thinking it would be a good idea. Thoughts?
Thanks again for the suggestions-I appreciate the feedback.
HarryCheeks
Thanks again for the suggestions-I appreciate the feedback.
HarryCheeks
yes, you should stay back and i find aura mastery to be handy as often as not. if you're the only pally and you have devo aura up you want it to ba able to reach the tank. if you have an addon that will do a range check for healing, then if it says you're n range to heal, your aura is on that person too if you have this.
5 posts
Thanks again TOJ and Maul for the advice. If I think of any more questions, I'll be sure and look for you again.
See ya in Azeroth sometime.
HC
See ya in Azeroth sometime.
HC
np at all, was good to see the rest of your questions answered before I got the chance to get back on here (just a couple mins ago, hehe). Feel free to ask any questions that come up, also if you haven't yet, might wanna skim the sticky as it has a lot of useful info in there.
On the note of 1H vs 2H: Like has been said, when you get to TBC gear you'll get 1H that have a lot of +spell damage on them, those are what you'll want past 58. But pre-outlands I don't think it matters too much if you go S&S or 2H (unless you're tanking).
Here's one thing to consider about running up and whacking mobs...it is a lot easier to pull threat onto you that way. Not only are you building extra threat (overhealing generates no threat, so you're going to add more than just spamming heals), and if you're in melee range you can do 20% less threat in comparison to the tank and pull aggro (110% instead of 130%).
Spec: While you may like being split between the trees, I would reccomend you go full holy until you are ready to put points into prot. However, this is not a "you must do this" but a "if it were me, it's what I'd do." I've heard of people levelling some classes 0/0/0 (some out of "I can do it" and some out of "what are talents?"), so even a non-elitist spec will work if it is optimal to your needs.
Tradeskills: If you need money, get two gathering skills. With engineering you do get some fun trinkets, but in general there's not much you miss by not having the tradeskill (unless your guild wants you to have it). My paladin has blacksmithing so he can make shield spikes when he levels...but he's an alt with funding from my main. What does my main have? Mining and skinning.
Divine Strength: If you're not ret, this is about as helpful as spirit. Also, when you hit outlands, skip over +str gear in favor of +spell damage gear. I'd respec to DI over DS...of course like I said earlier, people can level 0/0/0, so DS helps more than nothing.
Opening Chests: I figure there's usually not too much in chests that you can't get elsewhere, it's just easier. I consider having someone to unlock it a bonus, not a necessity.
Gear: If you're going to be an SD solo pally, I would recommend getting stam, int, +spell damage, and MP/5. In fact, since a lot of gear has "+spell damage and healing" that you will use, you can probably end up gearing yourself in a bunch of the same stuff to heal and to solo, although for high-end content you may want to replace your +spell damage and healing with +healing to heal.
Here's one thing to consider about running up and whacking mobs...it is a lot easier to pull threat onto you that way. Not only are you building extra threat (overhealing generates no threat, so you're going to add more than just spamming heals), and if you're in melee range you can do 20% less threat in comparison to the tank and pull aggro (110% instead of 130%).
Spec: While you may like being split between the trees, I would reccomend you go full holy until you are ready to put points into prot. However, this is not a "you must do this" but a "if it were me, it's what I'd do." I've heard of people levelling some classes 0/0/0 (some out of "I can do it" and some out of "what are talents?"), so even a non-elitist spec will work if it is optimal to your needs.
Tradeskills: If you need money, get two gathering skills. With engineering you do get some fun trinkets, but in general there's not much you miss by not having the tradeskill (unless your guild wants you to have it). My paladin has blacksmithing so he can make shield spikes when he levels...but he's an alt with funding from my main. What does my main have? Mining and skinning.
Divine Strength: If you're not ret, this is about as helpful as spirit. Also, when you hit outlands, skip over +str gear in favor of +spell damage gear. I'd respec to DI over DS...of course like I said earlier, people can level 0/0/0, so DS helps more than nothing.
Opening Chests: I figure there's usually not too much in chests that you can't get elsewhere, it's just easier. I consider having someone to unlock it a bonus, not a necessity.
Gear: If you're going to be an SD solo pally, I would recommend getting stam, int, +spell damage, and MP/5. In fact, since a lot of gear has "+spell damage and healing" that you will use, you can probably end up gearing yourself in a bunch of the same stuff to heal and to solo, although for high-end content you may want to replace your +spell damage and healing with +healing to heal.
Since you're still in Azeroth, I'd suggest you keep your strength set and and spec deep enough into Ret to get Seal of Command. In my experience, it's easier to solo with, especially since there isn't really a whole lot of +spelldmg gear available at your level.
You should keep another set for healing, loaded with as much int as you can find and +heal if you can get it. Don't be afraid to wear cloth / leather when you're healing, since you shouldn't be getting hit much and there is very little healing plate before Outlands.
*Edit: How come my internal grammar **** never wakes up until I hit the post button?
Edited, Nov 6th 2007 12:07am by MetalM
You should keep another set for healing, loaded with as much int as you can find and +heal if you can get it. Don't be afraid to wear cloth / leather when you're healing, since you shouldn't be getting hit much and there is very little healing plate before Outlands.
*Edit: How come my internal grammar **** never wakes up until I hit the post button?
Edited, Nov 6th 2007 12:07am by MetalM
At least you have one, unlike some other people we've seen.
I've got a lvl 55 Holy Pally, and here are my $0.02:
1) Holy Shock is awesome. Get it and love it for longer pulls. Also good for killing runners (if you didn't judge Justice on them). Also, don't forget that Divine Favor will give you an auto crit Holy Shock :)
2) I solo a lot too (not enough time to devote hours on end to running lots of instances - even tho I run them as often as I can). I exclusively use a 2H when soloing to kill mobs quicker. I have enough armor (mostly "of the Eagle" stuff) so that I don't take too much damage. A quick bandage, and I can last a long time before I have to drink.
3) When I do run instances - always use a 1H + shield. I have a tank set and a healing set (I use my healing more often).
4) Leveling Holy is fun. Unless you are in a race to hit lvl 70, it doesn't really matter which talent tree you pick, as long as it matches your playing style.
5) I originally had Divine Strength, but quickly swapped to Divine Intellect. Mana is king for Holy Spec. The only time you die is when you run out of mana.
6) I asked the question about Seal of Command on this forum, and the consensus seemed to be that Seal of Righteousness works better for a Holy Spec (since a good chunk of our damage is spell damage). Seal of Command works better is you go down the Ret tree. Is that still true?
Edited, Nov 6th 2007 1:28pm by YJMark
1) Holy Shock is awesome. Get it and love it for longer pulls. Also good for killing runners (if you didn't judge Justice on them). Also, don't forget that Divine Favor will give you an auto crit Holy Shock :)
2) I solo a lot too (not enough time to devote hours on end to running lots of instances - even tho I run them as often as I can). I exclusively use a 2H when soloing to kill mobs quicker. I have enough armor (mostly "of the Eagle" stuff) so that I don't take too much damage. A quick bandage, and I can last a long time before I have to drink.
3) When I do run instances - always use a 1H + shield. I have a tank set and a healing set (I use my healing more often).
4) Leveling Holy is fun. Unless you are in a race to hit lvl 70, it doesn't really matter which talent tree you pick, as long as it matches your playing style.
5) I originally had Divine Strength, but quickly swapped to Divine Intellect. Mana is king for Holy Spec. The only time you die is when you run out of mana.
6) I asked the question about Seal of Command on this forum, and the consensus seemed to be that Seal of Righteousness works better for a Holy Spec (since a good chunk of our damage is spell damage). Seal of Command works better is you go down the Ret tree. Is that still true?
Edited, Nov 6th 2007 1:28pm by YJMark
YJMark wrote:
6) I asked the question about Seal of Command on this forum, and the consensus seemed to be that Seal of Righteousness works better for a Holy Spec (since a good chunk of our damage is spell damage). Seal of Command works better is you go down the Ret tree. Is that still true?
If you have the spell damage then SoR does work better, although SoV works even better once you get it (in my opinion). The real reason I went for SoC is that I found myself with a couple of pieces of really nice armour that would have fit the playstyle - added to which was the fact that my spelldmg set was kinda meh. Plus the equipment I have now (mostly warrior dps plate, tbh) looks awesome on my pally :P
It sucks not having BoK, but I don't really need it for 5mans. I've always had 2 sets of gear - and I find I quite enjoy playing with SoC, especially the animation when it procs. When I'm in a group, I do what the group needs (including wearing those #$&*ing hideous Starcaller's legguards), but when I'm on my own I do what I want. So far, it's been working OK for me.
MetalM wrote:
YJMark wrote:
6) I asked the question about Seal of Command on this forum, and the consensus seemed to be that Seal of Righteousness works better for a Holy Spec (since a good chunk of our damage is spell damage). Seal of Command works better is you go down the Ret tree. Is that still true?
If you have the spell damage then SoR does work better, although SoV works even better once you get it (in my opinion).
<schnipped some>
For me, SoV is really situational - if I expect a really long fight, it stacks relatively quickly and then does better damage sithout expending so much mana, but for short fights it generally doesn't reach it's full effect, and for fights where a lot of your attacks don't land either due to stuns or block/parry, etc., it seems the seal doesn't refresh often enough and it drops off. Right now I have Seal of Command, but didn't go any further down the ret tree, and I haven't managed to find a situation where it does better for me and my gear than SoR. I'll probably spec away from it when I get off my lazy butt.
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