Ok, so I am a SV hunter raiding and doing heroics.
I am wondering if Badge Of Tenacitywould be a good choice for boss fights. I know that some thread already went over but I went back through to page 5 and couldn't find it.
So 1 agi roughly equals...
-1 ap
-.025 crit
Trinket equals...
-172.5 agi (from LR) which equals...
-172.5 ap
-4.31% crit (Can't figure out DPS increase with MS)
-43.12 ap increase from EW
This is really rough basic info gathered from Math Attack
Can some one please elaborate and expand on this info and also help me judge if it's worth it please?
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 4:34pm by Darigraz
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try it out in the spreadsheet, its alot easier on the brain.
you can find it here http://forums.tkasomething.com/showthread.php?t=8616
as a short answer tho, no i doubt it is very useful.
you can find it here http://forums.tkasomething.com/showthread.php?t=8616
as a short answer tho, no i doubt it is very useful.
First off, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LINKING SPREAD SHEET!!! I've been trying to find it for a month.
Secondly I don't get how to set it up for boss battle all out scenario.
Secondly I don't get how to set it up for boss battle all out scenario.
I would go after something with a passive AP amount to it and a nice use as well rather than one that is use only.
I use a Skyguard Silver Cross and Hourglass of the Unraveller. Add in a Don Santos Famously-Overpriced Hunting Rifle and my AP gets a fairly consistant boost throughout 5-man content. For raids, I'd probably switch out the Skyguard trinket for Bladefist's Breadth.
I've looked at the Badge of Tenacity and the raw Agility boost is appealing until you consider that it's going to give you less AP than Bladefist's and a crit rating boost that would be fantastic if it wasn't such a short duration. If you can get your hands on one for free, I'd try it out. Every time one shows up on auction on my realm, however, it's listed for 900-1500g, which is really just too much for what it adds. I could maybe see it for a Feral Druid or a Rogue, but a Hunter (even an SV spec Hunter) would probably be better served with other options.
I've looked at the Badge of Tenacity and the raw Agility boost is appealing until you consider that it's going to give you less AP than Bladefist's and a crit rating boost that would be fantastic if it wasn't such a short duration. If you can get your hands on one for free, I'd try it out. Every time one shows up on auction on my realm, however, it's listed for 900-1500g, which is really just too much for what it adds. I could maybe see it for a Feral Druid or a Rogue, but a Hunter (even an SV spec Hunter) would probably be better served with other options.
It depends on wether or not EW keeps the extra bonus for the entire fight or not.
If it does, its a pretty neat trinket for 25-man raids.
If it doesnt, its pretty worthless.
Though if you have one, selling it to your friendly guild feral druid will most likely be better for the raid, because it gives Druids (in bear) over 10% extra dodge....
If it does, its a pretty neat trinket for 25-man raids.
If it doesnt, its pretty worthless.
Though if you have one, selling it to your friendly guild feral druid will most likely be better for the raid, because it gives Druids (in bear) over 10% extra dodge....
seems to me that it was determined not to apply for the whole fight.
ya it only counts for that 20 sec and after that 20 sec till I crit again or EW runs out.
Ty so far for info guys. Still would like to see a beloved number cruncher elaborate the math.
Ty so far for info guys. Still would like to see a beloved number cruncher elaborate the math.
Quote:
Also just a bit of a warning, you may be subject to some flames here in the next few posts as this is one of the "asked 1 billion times questions". so just a heads up
No, you would just like to have a joygasm over somebody else being nerdy enough to do the number crunching.
K, lets see if I can get some info outa here.
First of all lets convert the on use thingy to an added bonus over time.
(We only have to keep in mind that this thing can be used for burst damage, and normally is forgotten against normal mobs. Thus the average effect will be a lot lower since we are not using this thing constantly, but when we use it, it helps more, since we are fighting a mob where every point of damage counts).
150 agi for 20seconds every 2minutes. So 150agi over 1/6th of the time gives us on average 25agi.
The armor is worthless. So basically you compare 25agi with the alternatives for this trinket slot.
For a non SV hunter this would be no good choice, so we can safely assume Expose Weakness and Lightning reflexes.
With LR we get 25agi*1.15 = 28.75agi
With expose weakness, this will increase the AP of every attacker by 7.2AP on average.
So these things we know. What we now need to know is how much DPS do we get out of this trinket and how much DPS do we get out of other trinkets.
Lets compare with another trinket which is standard for a raiding hunter:
- Bloodlust Brooch 72AP +278AP for 20 seconds, 2min CD.
This trinket will yield 72AP + 1/6*278AP = 72AP + 46.3AP = 118.3AP
Lets assume that 1AP increases a hunters DPS by ~0.4
The Bloodlust Brooch would yield 118 * 0.4 = 47.2DPS
Lets compare this with the badge:
The badge increases the hunter's DPS and the raid DPS.
The hunter gets: 28.75AP, 0.7%crit, 7.2AP from EW
The raid gets: 7.2AP for every melee DPS class attacking the same mob.
So we have to know how much Expose Weakness helps the raid. On EliteistJerks I found in the SV raiding thread that 1AP will yield ~0.3DPS for melee DPSers (though a bit less for feral druids and of course for tanks).
In a normal 25man raid you'll have 3 rogues, 1 dps warrior, 1 enh. shaman, 1 feral druid. Then you will have at least one tank for the mob and some hunter pets which will also benefit a little from EW.
So we can assume that every point of AP from expose weakness will add at least 2 DPS to your raid DPS.
So the EW portion of the badge will yield 7.2*2 = 14.4DPS
So, one component solved, one to go (the hunter's DPS increase)
The hunter's dps increase from AP is rather easy. This should be (28.75+7.2)*0.4 = 14.4DPS
The DPS increase from the extra 0.7crit is a bit trickier.
Lets assume the hunter has 340 tooltip DPS (which is a number a raiding SV hunter should achieve). 40% of his damage is from autoshot, the rest from his steady-shot and other specials.
Thus 0.7% crit give 340*0.007*1.3=3DPS increase for autoshots which is 40% of the total damage. Thus 0.7%crit increase the damage by 3*10/4=7.5DPS
Finally we can estimate the DPS increase a Badge of Tenacity yields:
14.4DPS+14.4DPS+7.5DPS = 36.3DPS
The Badge would yield 36.3DPS
I hope I have the most things correct (There are a ton of assumptions in here, but I hope it is close and the calculations are somewhat correct).
All in all it seems as if the badge of tenacity is not that bad a trinket, but it is worth than e.g. bloodlust brooch or other trinkets available for raiding hunters.
So leave this thing to our feral druids which gain 308*4.5=1386 armor and on use ~10% dodge from it.
First of all lets convert the on use thingy to an added bonus over time.
(We only have to keep in mind that this thing can be used for burst damage, and normally is forgotten against normal mobs. Thus the average effect will be a lot lower since we are not using this thing constantly, but when we use it, it helps more, since we are fighting a mob where every point of damage counts).
150 agi for 20seconds every 2minutes. So 150agi over 1/6th of the time gives us on average 25agi.
The armor is worthless. So basically you compare 25agi with the alternatives for this trinket slot.
For a non SV hunter this would be no good choice, so we can safely assume Expose Weakness and Lightning reflexes.
With LR we get 25agi*1.15 = 28.75agi
With expose weakness, this will increase the AP of every attacker by 7.2AP on average.
So these things we know. What we now need to know is how much DPS do we get out of this trinket and how much DPS do we get out of other trinkets.
Lets compare with another trinket which is standard for a raiding hunter:
- Bloodlust Brooch 72AP +278AP for 20 seconds, 2min CD.
This trinket will yield 72AP + 1/6*278AP = 72AP + 46.3AP = 118.3AP
Lets assume that 1AP increases a hunters DPS by ~0.4
The Bloodlust Brooch would yield 118 * 0.4 = 47.2DPS
Lets compare this with the badge:
The badge increases the hunter's DPS and the raid DPS.
The hunter gets: 28.75AP, 0.7%crit, 7.2AP from EW
The raid gets: 7.2AP for every melee DPS class attacking the same mob.
So we have to know how much Expose Weakness helps the raid. On EliteistJerks I found in the SV raiding thread that 1AP will yield ~0.3DPS for melee DPSers (though a bit less for feral druids and of course for tanks).
In a normal 25man raid you'll have 3 rogues, 1 dps warrior, 1 enh. shaman, 1 feral druid. Then you will have at least one tank for the mob and some hunter pets which will also benefit a little from EW.
So we can assume that every point of AP from expose weakness will add at least 2 DPS to your raid DPS.
So the EW portion of the badge will yield 7.2*2 = 14.4DPS
So, one component solved, one to go (the hunter's DPS increase)
The hunter's dps increase from AP is rather easy. This should be (28.75+7.2)*0.4 = 14.4DPS
The DPS increase from the extra 0.7crit is a bit trickier.
Lets assume the hunter has 340 tooltip DPS (which is a number a raiding SV hunter should achieve). 40% of his damage is from autoshot, the rest from his steady-shot and other specials.
Thus 0.7% crit give 340*0.007*1.3=3DPS increase for autoshots which is 40% of the total damage. Thus 0.7%crit increase the damage by 3*10/4=7.5DPS
Finally we can estimate the DPS increase a Badge of Tenacity yields:
14.4DPS+14.4DPS+7.5DPS = 36.3DPS
The Badge would yield 36.3DPS
I hope I have the most things correct (There are a ton of assumptions in here, but I hope it is close and the calculations are somewhat correct).
All in all it seems as if the badge of tenacity is not that bad a trinket, but it is worth than e.g. bloodlust brooch or other trinkets available for raiding hunters.
So leave this thing to our feral druids which gain 308*4.5=1386 armor and on use ~10% dodge from it.
Mulgrin, you made my head hurt reading that. Althought daily the most math I do is making sure I have 2 dollars for my work commute.
Quote:
Mulgrin, you made my head hurt reading that. Althought daily the most math I do is making sure I have 2 dollars for my work commute.
Hell, ***** the 2 dollars for the commute- I need my 5 bucks for lunch!
Oh, and good to see you Rayne, I missed you over the weekend :P
Mulgrin you are a god.
Thank you mucho grande.
1 question though, I assume you counted in MS with the crit, correct?
Thank you mucho grande.
1 question though, I assume you counted in MS with the crit, correct?
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