....o man, keep this please!Follow

5 min cycles on PTR against servant of grol, so the fight was like 99.9% < 35% so dirty deeds was doing its thing the entire fight for Hemo.

19/42 combat vs 31/30 AR+Deadliness (just to keep in line with RP's math from before.)

Hemo

SS

6/31/24 Hemo test <-- edited in. This gives me one murder, and 5/5 malice to up the crit. If you notice that is a pretty generous test considering the critrate was near 40%. But that just means my tests are only so accurate, still the results remain the same.

SS outdamages hemo by a fair amount. 269 DPS : 246 DPS in fact. Factor in additional damage to white hits and you might get close, maybe. But then again thats with a target at < 35% the entire fight!

The fights started with AR then ended when AR came back up, and it also seemed the hemo test had double mongoose up quite a bit.

also shows combat potency > hemo for energy management since i was able to get off 5 more SSs, which cost more energy. Though, this is only as conclusive as one 5 minute test can be.

Im gonna try one more combo.... brb

Edited, Nov 4th 2007 9:31am by KTurner

Edited, Nov 4th 2007 10:11am by KTurner

hemo loses to SS is what i found

yeah, funny that 19/42 combat SS hit harder than 30 sub hemos. So i dunno. Personally im going to stick to combat next patch. Not that its necessarily better, but im finally getting the hang of it and aint gonna change yet.

I dont think its that skewed, if anything its skewed heavily in favor of Hemo, and SS still performs better.

And yes, its purely SS vs Hemo, nothing else was used. just spammed hemo/ss.

edit: heh just noticed my SS test had me at >42% crit lol. I will try a larger sample later, how does 500 sound, RP?

Edited, Nov 4th 2007 12:18pm by KTurner

Not a very fair test. The build you'd use for a Hemo PvE build would be 11/27/23. Relentless Strikes generates more energy than AR + Prep. Also, a big part of this build's DPS is improved rupture damage. In my tests, I had Hemo beating SS by about 80 DPS without Dirty Deeds, using a 1s/5r cycle.

Going to pop on and see what kind of DPS I get with a proper 11/27/23 build.

Edit: 1136.9 DPS with 11/27/23. That's about 10% higher than Combat Swords, which is a rather significant increase. Hemo was 73,809 damage of 348,624, or 21%. Adjusting that for Dirty Deeds, we get 61,507 damage, which is a difference of 12,302. The new percentage is 18.3%. Increasing that by the 7% average you get out of Dirty Deeds, we have 65,812 damage, for a total damage of 340,627. The new adjusted DPS is 1080. This is about 40 DPS higher than my Combat Swords tests. Keep in mind that this is without any buffs whatsoever, other than poisons. With raid buffs, the damage gap will be much, much higher.

11/27/23 simply outperforms Combat Swords in every aspect. More DPS, more control, more utility.

Edited, Nov 4th 2007 5:01pm by Nooblestick

Quiet Nooble, you are tempting the nerf gods.

Their wrath we are all to familiar with, and it would be best to avoid their notice on this one.

No, it's not. Special attacks only.

There's no possible reason for SS to do more autoattack damage than Hemo does other than variation due to a smaller sample size, though.

Hmm, i hadnt noticed that, but you are correct.

Sorry, I've not replied on this board, but midterms are coming up again. I'll try to keep this brief as I notice my posts tend to be very long winded, but I hope they are nonetheless informative.

The short of it is that after hearing that hemo is now normalized I did some recalculating. At 1700 AP and with the same weapon hemo only falls 68 damage behind talented SS, and with only 2 charges going off it outdamages SS by 4, though you'll probably get at least 3 or 4 further widening the damage gap.

I'm glad to hear hemo is now normalized, as now you don't need a nigh unattainable weapon to make it pretty good. But if I went hemo, I think I'd go fists, as I think the higher crit rate would be offset some of hemo's shortcomings (ie: lack of lethality) somthing along the lines of this:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0053201000000000000000053050020050105000000000502530002301210000000

It has the synergy as a Bleed 'em Out Rogue. I think these talents will do better at maximizing damage output, and providing some more utility, but I suppose more testing instead of math would have to be done to be sure.

Edited, Nov 5th 2007 1:33am by FelRogue

My bad, the link did not update properly so I've edited the post. It's supposed to be a fist spec anyway. But in either case, you still want 2/2 dirty deeds because in 2.3 that talent increases the damage of all special attacks against enemies with less than 35% health, and this helps close the gap between SS and Hemo in a long boss fight.

It's personal preference really, but I'd rather give up the pleasant surprise 5% extra swing for a wider crit range. Despite the poor itemization, good fists will be easier to come by al a Battlegrounds/Arenas come 2.3. And I didn't pick up weapon expertise since, as far as I know, this only adds to crit rating and not hit as of last patch and even then only adds .4% crit with 2 talents. If that's true then Weapon Expertise = Not that Good.

I am noticing that Sword spec is factored into all these calculations. Is hemo not viable when using maces or fists? I am always looking for the max damage raid spec, would hemo mace outperform combat daggers?

Huh? Patch 2.3 adds 5% crit damage for maces.