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DPS advice please...Follow

#1 Nov 02 2007 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
My place on the dps meters is much lower than it should be and I'm not sure why. I'm in SSC 2 or 3 nights a week. I'm always near the bottom during trash because I have to almost constantly sheep. I do a bit better on the bosses, but I'm usually not in the top 10.

My rotation is generally enough scorch to max the effect, spam fireblast when available, spam fireball the rest of the time. Sprinkle in a scorch here and there to keep the effect up. I use stopcast macros and a casting bar mod.

My PC could be better. I drop to as low as 4 fps during Hydross. Not sure how much effect that has.

I'm not a tailor, and I currently have no interest in pvp.

Any suggestions?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Scarlet%20Crusade&n=Gobi

Ignore the riding crop if it's there. Darkmoon Card: Wrath should be in its place.

*edit*

eh, I should probably change that sig...

Edited, Nov 2nd 2007 6:40pm by Maelll
#2 Nov 02 2007 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Smiley: frown

Im having kind of the same problem. One of these days when my guild gets back to Kara you'll see me here with a thread just like this and details. Smiley: frown
#3 Nov 02 2007 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
In my guild mages are usually near the bottom of the damage meters and were on Kael right now. Even the mages in tier 5 are getting out damaged by classes in poorer gear.

Our guild leader always yells at us for our poor dps and constantly threatens to replace us. So not really much I can say because mage dps seems to be on the bottom of the damage meters.
#4 Nov 02 2007 at 11:45 PM Rating: Good
with the current mechanics if u run with some well geared locks and spriests it will be hard to out DPS them plain and simple. 2.3 should be much different in terms of 10/48/3 DPS.
#5 Nov 03 2007 at 12:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Some factors that aren't apparenty from your armory: Are you using consumables on a heavy basis? Any OOM issues during the raid bosses?

Due to current mechanics, an AM spam build will probably reach you the top DPS you can put out. I tested it recently. I regemmed and equipped an MSD and got a Lightning Capacitor then respeccd for a raid, and my damage was immense. Every 3rd or 4th AM was high speed. But I probably would have been OOM a lot had I not had a paladin tank whose main is a mage convinced to keep JoW up on the bosses for me.

Come 2.3, expect to see a fairly large DPS jump in 10/48/3 and deep frost and a bit of a reduction for AM spam. It also wouldn't take too much re-gemming to get a Mystical Skyfire Diamond working in your helm. That would be a huge increase, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I love the Insightful Earthstorm Diamond, but I know I rarely have mana issues.

Additionally, yes, find a way to up your computer's performance. That will certainly help you DPS more.

#6 Nov 03 2007 at 5:24 AM Rating: Good
Is the MSD going to be worth it after the nerf in 2.3? I hate the requirements on it too. More blue gems than yellow is a pain.

I think I'll stick with fire for now since 2.3 seems so close.

I use Blackened Basilisk and Superior Wizard oil almost constantly while raiding. I also usually have a flask of pure death or draenic wis/major firepower pots.

I don't seem to have many mana issues.I'll definately have to try the MSD.

Also, my PC problems should be rectified by Christmas. I should be building a new one then.

Thanks so much for the advice guys.

#7 Nov 03 2007 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
Don't underestimate the power of an Arcane Blast spell rotation even without the 2 piece T5 bonus, you have the mana pool with the aldor set to keep it up. Your Int would go up to 598 and that would turn out an extra 150 spell dmg with MM. If you could get your hands on a Lightning Capacitor and a MSD it'd make the spec even stronger.
#8 Nov 03 2007 at 7:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Maelll the Ludicrous wrote:
Is the MSD going to be worth it after the nerf in 2.3? I hate the requirements on it too. More blue gems than yellow is a pain.


The requirements are indeed a pain, but I think it's actually gonna work out to about the same proc rate for a fireball spamming mage. Possibly even a buff. Though I haven't done the math on it so I'm still not 100% on that.

Sounds like you're doing what you can. Come 2.3 and then your new PC, I foresee a damage increase for ya.

Smiley: smile
#9 Nov 03 2007 at 8:56 AM Rating: Default
according to my guild's mathemetical calculations, 2/3 of pyro's dmg comes from the dot, 1/2 of fireball's dmg comes from dot, so dont spam fireball, u should open with pyro fireball fireblast, then scorch x5(put a fireblast in there), then pyro fireball fireblast, and spam fireblast and scorch, pyro and fireball when the ticks are over.

hoope that can improve ur dps, cause ur gear is pretty decent right now
#10 Nov 04 2007 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
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stormofnova wrote:
according to my guild's mathemetical calculations, 2/3 of pyro's dmg comes from the dot, 1/2 of fireball's dmg comes from dot,


Your math seems way off. Especially on Fireball. Pyro seems off as well, but I don't have the numbers in front of me and don't really feel like doing the math myself right now.

Edit: Just a basic look at the damage coefficients shows that math to be off.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_Damage_Coefficients

Pyro's DoT effect is smaller than the direct damage portion and has a smaller coefficient. So the gap only widens between the two as you get more and more spell damage.

Fireball gets about 103% of spell damage right now, while the DoT doesn't seem to get any, meaning that once you're talented and with no spell damage gear, that's the absolute closest the DD and DoT portions come. As you get more and more spell damage, the disparity between the two gets larger. The DoT portion of fireball is a happy extra, but most can be ignored.

Edited, Nov 4th 2007 2:34am by Poldaran
#11 Nov 04 2007 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
stormofnova wrote:
according to my guild's mathemetical calculations, 2/3 of pyro's dmg comes from the dot, 1/2 of fireball's dmg comes from dot,


Your math seems way off. Especially on Fireball. Pyro seems off as well, but I don't have the numbers in front of me and don't really feel like doing the math myself right now.

Edit: Just a basic look at the damage coefficients shows that math to be off.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_Damage_Coefficients

Pyro's DoT effect is smaller than the direct damage portion and has a smaller coefficient. So the gap only widens between the two as you get more and more spell damage.

Fireball gets about 103% of spell damage right now, while the DoT doesn't seem to get any, meaning that once you're talented and with no spell damage gear, that's the absolute closest the DD and DoT portions come. As you get more and more spell damage, the disparity between the two gets larger. The DoT portion of fireball is a happy extra, but most can be ignored.

Edited, Nov 4th 2007 2:34am by Poldaran


Sounds about right to me.
#12 Nov 04 2007 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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change your trinkets, DMC:Wrath is ok but there are other trinkets out there that offer you more.

Nexus Horn, Icon (from Heroic badge), Quag's Eye. An extra haste effect is emmensely beneficial to a fire mage. If spell hit is a concern switch to using CE exalted ring and the Scryer ring. I currently use 2 proc based trinkets (internal CDs ftw) dps kinda on the mid 500s to the low 600s (taken off boss fight Gruul).
#13 Nov 05 2007 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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Also, remember that the bosses in Kara will be dropping those heroic badges now, so if you have Kara on farm, you can pick up and easy bunch of badges there.
#14 Nov 05 2007 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
Well, they will be after 2.3. My guild doesn't plan on running kara though, unless it is just a pug group. We will probably stick to ZA and continue moving on through SSC/TK.
#15 Nov 05 2007 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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How often is CoE up and running on bosses? If you've got 2 or more mages, it should always be up.

Get something better than DMC:Wrath. It's really not all that great, especially when you already have a decent crit rate - in fact, simulations put it as worse than ZHC for a 10/48/3 mage, and even a not-outstanding trinket like the Sta'tar revered one is around twice as good O.o

I'm going to have to say that the MSFD really isn't worth the crit and/or damage losses from having to meet the requirements. Come 2.3, I'd grab the Chaotic Skyfire one instead (exactly 2 blue) and regem back to Potent Noble and/or Runed Living. I haven't seen math on CSD yet, though, so I may be wrong.

It might be a bit different than me, being a DoT-heavy class and outgearing many other casters in my guild, but I don't see a huge loss with my with my current 6-8fps in raids - I'm currently breaking 1000dps on Maulgar, and dps spreadsheets put my ideal damage at about 1200dps. I'm sure a better framerate would help, and hopefully this will be less of an issue for you with the /stopcasting fix next patch, but I doubt that's the sole problem.

Pyroblast is always, always, always a net damage loss unless you can PoM/Pyro. Pyroblast with very good gear (30% crit, 1200dmg, ignoring miss) is 944 dmg/casting second, fireball is 1290 right now and will jump to 1380 in 2.3. Pyro pulls ahead if you use it on MSFD proc (1888 dpcs) or PoM, else Fireball is better. Fireball scales better as well (22.5% of +dmg/sec versus 34.5%/sec now and 38.3% in 2.3).

Edited, Nov 5th 2007 12:32pm by lsfreak
#16 Nov 05 2007 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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lsfreak wrote:
I'm going to have to say that the MSFD really isn't worth the crit and/or damage losses from having to meet the requirements. Come 2.3, I'd grab the Chaotic Skyfire one instead (exactly 2 blue) and regem back to Potent Noble and/or Runed Living. I haven't seen math on CSD yet, though, so I may be wrong.



My gut feeling still says MSD will be better than it currently is for 10/48/3, but I'm gonna have to do the math. I'll look at it and see if I can find more information on it and post it here.

Edit: Let's just use lazy math. Assume that it procs once every time 100% is reached.

Currently:
Quote:
5% on spellcast - next spell cast in half time

So, pre-2.3, it'll in theory proc once every 20 spells on average. Meaning once a minute for fireball.

Post 2.3:
Quote:
Mystical Skyfire Diamond: A cooldown has been added to this item's effect, but the chance for it to trigger has been increased. (chance seems 10%/15%, cd seems 45 sec, duration now only 6 sec, duration 6 sec is cinsidered as bug)


Post 2.3, it'll proc roughly every 6-6.5 spells(rounding down for simplicity). But with a 45 second internal cooldown. So assume once every 18s when the cooldown isn't up. About once every 63 seconds total.

Minor nerf, but still not bad. And again, that's REALLY lazy math. The actuality can mean it'll average out a little better, or a little worse. Though it will likely mean it to be a major nerf for any build with a faster cast nuke.

Edited, Nov 6th 2007 12:49am by Poldaran
#17 Nov 06 2007 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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Pol... I think this nerf was not aimed at the 10/48/3 build, but the deep arcane build that uses: ABx2 -> AM. The MSD had a chance to proc on the cast of AM itself, as well as with each bolt. Since I won't be playing a deep arcane mage after 2.3, It'll work fine for frostbolts (deep frost) as well. It becomes a slight nerf there as the casting time for frostbolts is a half-second shorter than for fireballs.

/bye unbelievably OP AM spam. I had fun in the battlegrounds with ya!

To the OP:

I'd wear something something other than that violet eye badge. It's a +stam trinket that I'd wear for PVP maybe, but not in raids and such.

There, now I'm almost back on topic... I feel better.

Edited, Nov 6th 2007 7:41am by ktangent
#18 Nov 06 2007 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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ktangent wrote:
Pol... I think this nerf was not aimed at the 10/48/3 build, but the deep arcane build that uses: ABx2 -> AM. The MSD had a chance to proc on the cast of AM itself, as well as with each bolt.


I know what it was aimed at, I tried that build once I heard about that myself. First thing I said: Well, this is getting nerfed. It was extremely powerful. But I've heard a fair number of people say that the nerf is gonna make the MSD useless for all specs, and it's just not really true, imo.
#19 Nov 06 2007 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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/agree. It just makes the deep arcane specs much less viable.
#20 Nov 06 2007 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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ktangent wrote:
/agree. It just makes the deep arcane specs much less viable.


Agreed. Between that and the removal of the damage tax, I personally probably will never spec Deep Arcane again.
#21 Nov 06 2007 at 9:30 AM Rating: Decent
now if only the MSD didn't have such a terrible gemming requirement... more blues than yellows... goodbye damage.
#22 Nov 06 2007 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm farming the spellstrike patterns now.... then I'll have my T4 2 pc, if I want it, but I'll probably go with spellstrike + better +hit/+damage gems....
#23 Nov 06 2007 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
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Anobix wrote:
now if only the MSD didn't have such a terrible gemming requirement... more blues than yellows... goodbye damage.


Actually, it's not necessarily bad. If you can get your +hit from enchants and gear, you can just have one blue and nothing but +dmg red gems.
#24 Nov 07 2007 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
Maelll wrote:
My PC could be better. I drop to as low as 4 fps during Hydross.


Well thats your problem if you ask me are you by chance running WoW in windowed mode if so when i put it in normal mode i see a significant increase in my fps.
#25 Nov 07 2007 at 9:33 PM Rating: Good
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Do you use quartz and a stopcasting macro OP?
#26 Nov 11 2007 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
Wow, this thread just kept on going and I didn't notice, lol.

ktangent - the violet eye trinket was there for our first Solarian attempts. On bosses I'm now using the lightning capacitor and the scryer's bloodgem.

As far as trinkets go, we have Tidewalker and the Fathom-Lord nearly on farm status. I want to grab the mage trinket first, but the fathom-lord one is pretty sweet too. Just a matter of time.

The Chaotic Skyfire Diamond looks pretty sweet. I'll definately have to check it out in 2.3

I also think I'm gonna stick with fire. The nerfs to arcane, even with the T5 bonus, make it much less attractive. Especially since we're getting all our fireball damage back.
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