I'm curious how much the hardcore tanks out there use charge. I just tanked RFD at 35, which was interesting to say the least >.< and the shammy kept urging me to use charge for the extra rage. I tried a charge-hit-thunderclap-switch to defensive approach, but it seemed to end out worse than simply running in with bloodrage and starting on the sunders.
Also any suggestions on holding aggro against two mages who are higher level than you and run in with AOE damage the instant there are more than 3 targets?
Help's appreciated
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I charge whenever I can. The extra rage generated by Charge helps me get the mobs attention faster, making it less likely a DPS will pull the mob off me. The only thing about charge is many times the mobs are too close together... don't charge then.
If there's a doubt in your mind if you can't charge in without aggro the next group... then just ranged pull (or have another class pull - works well in multi CC parties), by the time all the mobs come over there's usually only 1 or 2 not CC'd which you can pick off the puller with a T. Clap. Anywho... you charge the Skull (dps) mob, that will give you your rage that way.
If no pullers, just range the mob yourself, hit bloodrage and hope the CD is ready for next pull. Also there's Rage pots you can get... every little bit helps, and the lower level ones are semi-cheap.
Keeping aggro on two casters, you can Tab-Sunder/sheild bash/etc. I'd just run in T. Clap the mobs, if everyone is attacking the DPS mob then no one can pull that off caster mob from you. For multi-mobs remember to keep spamming T. Clap when the CD is up. <---you'll need to move away from the CC mobs tho... no wakey wakey plz.
If there's a doubt in your mind if you can't charge in without aggro the next group... then just ranged pull (or have another class pull - works well in multi CC parties), by the time all the mobs come over there's usually only 1 or 2 not CC'd which you can pick off the puller with a T. Clap. Anywho... you charge the Skull (dps) mob, that will give you your rage that way.
If no pullers, just range the mob yourself, hit bloodrage and hope the CD is ready for next pull. Also there's Rage pots you can get... every little bit helps, and the lower level ones are semi-cheap.
Keeping aggro on two casters, you can Tab-Sunder/sheild bash/etc. I'd just run in T. Clap the mobs, if everyone is attacking the DPS mob then no one can pull that off caster mob from you. For multi-mobs remember to keep spamming T. Clap when the CD is up. <---you'll need to move away from the CC mobs tho... no wakey wakey plz.
Charge, but make sure you're standing far back. Let the puller pull, when the mob(s) get close to camp charge them (you're standing way behind camp) then TC to get the adds. Works for me 90% of the time. Once you get to the 90% mark where you're usually able to do this without messing up somehow, the other 10% you can use Challenging Shout if there was a ton of mobs on the pull hitting the puller.
Edited, Oct 30th 2007 2:07pm by duvar
Edited, Oct 30th 2007 2:07pm by duvar
Quote:
Also any suggestions on holding aggro against two mages who are higher level than you and run in with AOE damage the instant there are more than 3 targets?
I think he meant that he had two mages in his group who kept pulling mobs off of him. If they keep doing that, then your healer should complain, not you. He's the one that has to do extra work, while you just keep taunting, T.Cing, and tabbing the the mobs that arent paying attention to you. If you have dps in the group that's higher level than you and they go all out, you can't keep aggro, so it' up to them to know when to stop (i.e. let them die so they know they were being stupid).
Quote:
I think he meant that he had two mages in his group who kept pulling mobs off of him
Oh yeah, whoopsie. Then it's the mages fault. If they do it on non-elite mobs then it's cool. If it's elite mobs, then they have a Imp. Deathwish talent that we don't have. Don't be afraid to say something about AoE around the 2 or 3 T. Clap (with Imp T. Clap that should work).
Edited, Oct 30th 2007 2:49pm by GYFFORD
To the OP. For 5 man instancing, charge is very very very useful. But come late game it becomes less and less useful, when you can't tank more than 2-3 mobs at once; from either lack of gear or healing (scrub raiding guilds...).
Do you have a threat meter? Omen or KLH Threat Meter are currently very popular (i have yet to see a fully functioning alternative). And do your party members have a threat meter?
If you answered no to any of that, you need to get it, and make sure your party has it.
At level 35 we don't really have a way of dealing good AoE threat. And mages should know better than to AoE a group of mobs that the warrior is having problems holding agro on. And probably switch to a much more direct, but in their opinion lamer and not as interesting, dps spell. Like arcane missiles...
Do you have a threat meter? Omen or KLH Threat Meter are currently very popular (i have yet to see a fully functioning alternative). And do your party members have a threat meter?
If you answered no to any of that, you need to get it, and make sure your party has it.
At level 35 we don't really have a way of dealing good AoE threat. And mages should know better than to AoE a group of mobs that the warrior is having problems holding agro on. And probably switch to a much more direct, but in their opinion lamer and not as interesting, dps spell. Like arcane missiles...
3 posts
I'm kind of surpised nobody suggested to have the mages sheep before you pull. That will help keep the size of your pull down so they don't need to AOE as much. If a mage sheep's they'll get agro and mobs run to them, just stand behind the mage, charge and while your running hit blood rage, you should be able to TC the agro off if nobody else started going at them while they were running over.
Edited, Oct 30th 2007 3:56pm by floatingurboat
Edited, Oct 30th 2007 3:56pm by floatingurboat
I like a Mage to Sheep-pull. Granted, I haven't tanked too many runs ... but the ones I have run, I do with a mage buddy. He sheeps one, the rest run in, a demo shout or tc gets their attention, and sunders and TC keeps it, unless of course the mage wants to show off, then he unleashes everything he's got and inevitably pulls aggro.
He does understand that if he does that, he's on his own - it's great fun to watch him kite the mob around while the rest of us laugh at him, long after we've finished the pull ;->. To his credit, he keeps his designated mob sheeped all the time he's doing this - he's a good player ... if a little hot-headed.
The benefit is that the cc'd mob is far away as to not be affected by TC.
Very often we run with the mages warlock GF. They sit next to each other IRL and co-ordinate to CC 2 at a time (sheep and seduce), then by the time the rest of the mobs arrive at us, a TC (or a charge from a little way back) gets me aggro and they are far enough away from the CC'd mobs to not be a worry about TC breaking CC.
He does understand that if he does that, he's on his own - it's great fun to watch him kite the mob around while the rest of us laugh at him, long after we've finished the pull ;->. To his credit, he keeps his designated mob sheeped all the time he's doing this - he's a good player ... if a little hot-headed.
The benefit is that the cc'd mob is far away as to not be affected by TC.
Very often we run with the mages warlock GF. They sit next to each other IRL and co-ordinate to CC 2 at a time (sheep and seduce), then by the time the rest of the mobs arrive at us, a TC (or a charge from a little way back) gets me aggro and they are far enough away from the CC'd mobs to not be a worry about TC breaking CC.
#9REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 31 2007 at 4:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) its very important that everyone understands that a tanks job is not to prevent others from having the possibility to pull aggro, it is to give them the chance not to pull aggro.
Yah, in this case, the mages were doing enough damage and the ehaler was good enough that no one died. Also, the only cc we had was shackle undead, once we got into the tough parts, so it was pretty much all big pulls. I kindof gave up and let the mages nuke everything and I focused on one or two targets. They were all orange to me, so half of my stff kept missing anyway >.<
I love having a Mage to sheep but I don't like sheep pulling. It means that the rest of the group goes straight for the Mage and means more work for me getting all of them off the Mage. It also means that there is a sheeped mob way back by the other groups that just might bring another group when the sheep pops. I prefer to pull and have the Mage sheep the mob as it's about halfway to me or even by me and I'll just pull my group away from the sheep so I can TC safely.
I love CC though and am perfectly happy tanking one mob at a time even if it means slower rage generation and takes a bit longer to get through the instance. I prefer to be more careful and less dead. :P
Oh - and since the thread is actually about using Charge - learn to charge and then change stances (hopefully after using up that initial rage from the charge.) I'm not a good stance dancer but I do like the extra rage and will often use charge on boss fights when possible. I've gotten into the habit of just staying in defensive for most fights though as a lot of groups require ranged pulling to avoid adds. I'm using Bloodrage to get enough rage to do that first TC to get a decent hold on the group and then I concentrate on the main target that the DPS is supposed to be going after while throwing out demo shout and TC when I have the rage to spare.
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 8:40am by morghast
I love CC though and am perfectly happy tanking one mob at a time even if it means slower rage generation and takes a bit longer to get through the instance. I prefer to be more careful and less dead. :P
Oh - and since the thread is actually about using Charge - learn to charge and then change stances (hopefully after using up that initial rage from the charge.) I'm not a good stance dancer but I do like the extra rage and will often use charge on boss fights when possible. I've gotten into the habit of just staying in defensive for most fights though as a lot of groups require ranged pulling to avoid adds. I'm using Bloodrage to get enough rage to do that first TC to get a decent hold on the group and then I concentrate on the main target that the DPS is supposed to be going after while throwing out demo shout and TC when I have the rage to spare.
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 8:40am by morghast
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