the problem i see when moving up the tanking ranks is: pally and gear. take tier 6 warrior vs pally tank armor.
the warrior gets all tank stats, nuff said. the pally losses some tank stats in exchange for "pally stats"(+spell, +int, and set bonus). however, i haven't done the overall avoidence math on the 2 sets, but it looks like the pally set would still be lacking even given the large amount of +dodge. this sentiment is reiterated in all the warrior/pally tank sets.
i also dont like the threat scaling. most warrior sets will include higher amounts of +str which will help add more threat plus mit. pallies' +spell seems pretty capped at +300 for any given gear setup(unless you choose to drop even more mit). im thinking in higher-end raids this would be a problem when moving to the next target. many raiders dont give you the extra time on folling targets. however, warriors will already have a full rage bar coming off the 1st target and be able to stack the threat in no time.
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- We had a prot in our raid
We had a prot in our raidFollow
I was looking at a full tier 6 tankadin Armory the other day, and I don't remember their name or I would put it up here.
Here was their stats though (all unbuffed):
Full avoidance w/dodge around 20%, Parry around 15%
>15k hp
Spell damage was in the 430s
Here was their stats though (all unbuffed):
Full avoidance w/dodge around 20%, Parry around 15%
>15k hp
Spell damage was in the 430s
Dilbrt wrote:
I don't care if you're the best in the world, there will always be certain situations that a paladin tank will not work, and there will never be a situation where a warrior tank will not work.
There's only 2-3 fights that I know that a Paladin simply cannot tank.
Of the rest, there's different strengths and weaknesses for all 3 tanks.
HI2U Morogrim Tidewalker, who, as a Healer, I'd easily have a Prot Paladin tank anyday of the week than a squishy (yes, squishy) Prot Warrior who gets crushed to death after their 2 Shield Block charges are gone (1 usually due to Earthquake), while the Paladin is continuing to take consistent damage with his/her remaining Holy Shield charges.
Am I saying that Prot Warriors can't take Morogrim? Nope, of course they can, but Paladins definitely shine here.
What about Leotheras? Way easier to use a Prot Paladin to grab him up again after he drops aggro.
Seriously, what are you basing your prejudices off anyways? A good Paladin tank can easily match the TPS of a good Warrior. There's obviously certain weakneseses to Paladin tanks, one major one being not having solid interrupt or spell reflect abilities, but in that case, don't use a Paladin in that situation! Not really that difficult of a concept. What's wrong with having versatility in the tanking section of this game too?
Too much e-***** and class hating in this game for no real reason whatsoever. I welcome having a Druid Tank, a Paladin tank and a Warrior main tank in a raid, can use different ones in different situations.
Paladin T6
Armor = 7415
Stamina = 299
Intellect = 132
Defense Rating = 151
Dodge Rating = 119
Parry Rating = 30
Block Rating = 60
+Block Amount = 47
Durability = 540
Spell Damage (All) = 189
Warrior T6
Armor = 7415
Strength = 41
Agility = 89
Stamina = 298
Defense Rating = 170
Dodge Rating = 27
Parry Rating = 100
Block Rating = 139
+Block Amount = 77
Durability = 540
All unsocketed and enchanted. Both sets have the same armor. The warrior's has his "class specific" threat and to an extent defensive stats -- 41 Strength and 89 Agility. The paladin's has his "class specific" threat and to a small extent, defensive stats -- 132 Intellect and 189 Spell damage. The paladin's T6 set has 1 more stamina. The warrior's has 19 defense rating over the pally's. The pally has 92 dodge rating over the warrior. Warrior has 79 block rating and 70 parry rating over the paladin. And last the warrior has 30 block value over the pally.
*A paladin, with 5 talent points in anticipation, the holy shield +block rating libram, 5 points in the deflection talent, and holy shield up, needs 288 more defense rating to be uncritable. After being uncritable (490 defense), and having the listed almost mandatory gear and talents, Dwarven Paladins need 51.32% more avoidance, Draenei Paladins need 51.28% more avoidance, Blood Elven Paladins need 51.08% more avoidance, and Human Paladins need 51.16. This is not adding in redoubt, which adds 30% block 1 out of every 10 hits
The formula for paladin crushing blow immunity is...(Amount of defense rating over 490 defense skill divided by 15)% +(Block rating divided by 7.9)% +(Dodge rating divided by 18.9)% +(Parry rating divided by 22.4)% +(agility divided by 25)%.
For this set, the crushing blow immunity is...(0)+(60/7.9)+(119/18.9)+(30/22.4)+(0).
OR 7.59+6.30+1.34.
Equaling 15.23% crushing blow immunity....
That leaves 137 defense rating and 36.09% crushing blow immunity left to get from other gear (assuming that they keep the full T6 set on with all the mentioned gear) for a dwarf pally just to remain uncrushable. (Not saying that isn't hard, with the high turnout from block rating).
The paladin can feel free to stack the slots of armor, other than these 5 (7 if you add libram and spell damage sword), with defensive gear, because more int doesn't really matter, and with the standard tanking sword (having around 200 spell damage, and a 40 spell damage enchant on it) they are at around 429 spell damage with just this T6 set and a spell damage sword that is enchanted. That spell damage can easily be boosted by potions and the 20 spell damage to gloves enchant. (Also I think I remember that somewhere in the 400 hundreds, the threat to gloves enchant outweighs the 20 spell damage one. I could be wrong though :P)
((That part about spell damage proves said by tommy pretty wrong, as he stated to take t6 armors for example. Not bashing ya tommy, just proving ya wrong :P , I love reading your posts :)))
*A warrior having the anticipation talent maxxed out needs 288 extra defense rating to become uncrittable.
After becoming uncrittable, and assuming the warrior has shield block up, the formula for complete avoidance ( to make blocks fall off the table ) is...(Amount of defense rating over 490 defense skill divided by 20)% +(Dodge rating divided by 18.9)% +(Parry rating divided by 22.4)% +(agility divided by 30).
For this set, the complete avoidance is...(0)+(1.43)+(4.46)+(2.97)
Equaling 8.86 complete avoidance.
**Notice that the paladin's added crushing blow avoidance from this set is not complete...AKA they still take damage from the 7.59% blocked attacks, along with
the regular hits they recieve from not yet having crushing blow pushed off the charts.
The warrior's added avoidance..is complete.. AKA they take no damage from those 8.86% of hits this set makes them avoid.
**Note that paladins, with talents, get a passive 16% increase in stamina making this set give them 347 stamina....Warriors get 5% from talents, making this give them 313 stamina.
Armor = 7415
Stamina = 299
Intellect = 132
Defense Rating = 151
Dodge Rating = 119
Parry Rating = 30
Block Rating = 60
+Block Amount = 47
Durability = 540
Spell Damage (All) = 189
Warrior T6
Armor = 7415
Strength = 41
Agility = 89
Stamina = 298
Defense Rating = 170
Dodge Rating = 27
Parry Rating = 100
Block Rating = 139
+Block Amount = 77
Durability = 540
All unsocketed and enchanted. Both sets have the same armor. The warrior's has his "class specific" threat and to an extent defensive stats -- 41 Strength and 89 Agility. The paladin's has his "class specific" threat and to a small extent, defensive stats -- 132 Intellect and 189 Spell damage. The paladin's T6 set has 1 more stamina. The warrior's has 19 defense rating over the pally's. The pally has 92 dodge rating over the warrior. Warrior has 79 block rating and 70 parry rating over the paladin. And last the warrior has 30 block value over the pally.
*A paladin, with 5 talent points in anticipation, the holy shield +block rating libram, 5 points in the deflection talent, and holy shield up, needs 288 more defense rating to be uncritable. After being uncritable (490 defense), and having the listed almost mandatory gear and talents, Dwarven Paladins need 51.32% more avoidance, Draenei Paladins need 51.28% more avoidance, Blood Elven Paladins need 51.08% more avoidance, and Human Paladins need 51.16. This is not adding in redoubt, which adds 30% block 1 out of every 10 hits
The formula for paladin crushing blow immunity is...(Amount of defense rating over 490 defense skill divided by 15)% +(Block rating divided by 7.9)% +(Dodge rating divided by 18.9)% +(Parry rating divided by 22.4)% +(agility divided by 25)%.
For this set, the crushing blow immunity is...(0)+(60/7.9)+(119/18.9)+(30/22.4)+(0).
OR 7.59+6.30+1.34.
Equaling 15.23% crushing blow immunity....
That leaves 137 defense rating and 36.09% crushing blow immunity left to get from other gear (assuming that they keep the full T6 set on with all the mentioned gear) for a dwarf pally just to remain uncrushable. (Not saying that isn't hard, with the high turnout from block rating).
The paladin can feel free to stack the slots of armor, other than these 5 (7 if you add libram and spell damage sword), with defensive gear, because more int doesn't really matter, and with the standard tanking sword (having around 200 spell damage, and a 40 spell damage enchant on it) they are at around 429 spell damage with just this T6 set and a spell damage sword that is enchanted. That spell damage can easily be boosted by potions and the 20 spell damage to gloves enchant. (Also I think I remember that somewhere in the 400 hundreds, the threat to gloves enchant outweighs the 20 spell damage one. I could be wrong though :P)
((That part about spell damage proves
Quote:
+spell seems pretty capped at +300
*A warrior having the anticipation talent maxxed out needs 288 extra defense rating to become uncrittable.
After becoming uncrittable, and assuming the warrior has shield block up, the formula for complete avoidance ( to make blocks fall off the table ) is...(Amount of defense rating over 490 defense skill divided by 20)% +(Dodge rating divided by 18.9)% +(Parry rating divided by 22.4)% +(agility divided by 30).
For this set, the complete avoidance is...(0)+(1.43)+(4.46)+(2.97)
Equaling 8.86 complete avoidance.
**Notice that the paladin's added crushing blow avoidance from this set is not complete...AKA they still take damage from the 7.59% blocked attacks, along with
the regular hits they recieve from not yet having crushing blow pushed off the charts.
The warrior's added avoidance..is complete.. AKA they take no damage from those 8.86% of hits this set makes them avoid.
**Note that paladins, with talents, get a passive 16% increase in stamina making this set give them 347 stamina....Warriors get 5% from talents, making this give them 313 stamina.
very concise post, ty. couple of additions though:
2 pieces: Increases the mana gained from your Spiritual Attunement ability by 10%.
2 pieces: Increases the health bonus from your Commanding Shout ability by 170.
T6 + consortium/crystal blade? i have yet to see that combo in a raid. i'm still stickin with ~300 spell and a real tanking sword.
one might also factor Kings(10%) into +agi and +str, +int = whooptie doo(extra judgement?)
2 pieces: Increases the mana gained from your Spiritual Attunement ability by 10%.
2 pieces: Increases the health bonus from your Commanding Shout ability by 170.
Quote:
and with the standard tanking sword (having around 200 spell damage, and a 40 spell damage enchant on it)
T6 + consortium/crystal blade? i have yet to see that combo in a raid. i'm still stickin with ~300 spell and a real tanking sword.
one might also factor Kings(10%) into +agi and +str, +int = whooptie doo(extra judgement?)
Recent Visitors: 106
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (106)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- We had a prot in our raid
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC