Lock starting in KarazhanFollow

How about throwing in a link to your armory profile?

Edited, Oct 27th 2007 11:35am by pompa

Out of curiosity, how come your Affliction build doesn't include Improved Shadow Bolt and Bane? I thought Shadow Bolt spam was the common way to go in raids.

Ummmmm ok the links above me have instan cast howl of terror??? what the hell is that for. I have cleared Kara and Gruul's an downed loot reaver so i am not the raid expert, but i have never ever used fear....ever! Also if you are in a raid you should defo not be using curse of agnoy that would be very selfish and very dumb. Becasue chances are there will be at least 2-3 people who would benefit from curse of shadows/elemental. For a raid you need to think of damage output and being able to last 10minutes without worrying about mana while still casting and potting when ever you get the chance, here are 2 great raid builds.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warlock/talents.html?0502220512231105010000050030000000000000000505000512200010000000
that one is the dark pact / ruin build very long lasting and very high crits with SB or Incinerate alike

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warlock/talents.html?0000000000000000000002150030133200100000000055000512200510531050

And that one is the fire lock build hence why there are no points spent in imp. SB, what demon you sacrifice is your choice but it should either be imp or felhunter. I usually do felhunter and i never ever look at my mana and have never potted once while he has been sacrificed. Now onto your question of stats for kara. Hp has to be above 8K so you can easily survive aran's AoE fireball, Mana should be 10K, enchanst +40 spell dmg on sword and if you can afford it get spell dmg on rings and gloves as well, spell dmg 750ish if you are more affliction and 800+ with a 25% crit if you are more destruction. My spell hit is 102 and i get 1 or 2 resists a boss fight which ****** me off a lot so aim for a bit more if you want but 100 mark is solid.

Usually theres 3 tops. Curse of shadow, elements and recklessness. Maybe doom depending on melee makeup from 1 warlock, but generally shadow and elements are always up, and recklessness should be up for almost all fights. Even if you're lucky and get to use your dps curses (4 warlocks for example) doom > agony. Only time agony is decent is trash mobs that live long enough for a full dot rotation + shadowbolts.

To the person asking why iHoT, it depends how "hardcore" you are. Most people use their raiding build to farm too, so its nice having a few points spread around like imp CoA and iHoT when possible. Not everyone wants to raid 5x a week AND respec 10x a week on top of that just to farm. My raiding/farming build is 43/0/18. My PVP build is 23/38/0.


edit - if you're affliction you should seriously take 3/3 malediction. That usually means dropping some points depending on your gear, and CoA is generally the first to go. If you have room for both, great, but more +raid damage on bosses is much better then you're own lolcoa damage on trash mobs. Don't be greedy.

Edited, Oct 28th 2007 7:16pm by mikelolol

iHoT for raids is essentially useless - due to fear immunity.

In regular instances/heroics, it can be used as a form of mass cc, but requires a coordinated effort within the party. You basically give the tank time to regain aggro on the mobs while kiting all of them to keep them from grabbing adds. Very difficult :S

The chance you'll need to do this is extremely low - iHoT is primarily a pvp talent. In a PUG, your group won't be coordinated enough to take advantage of it (they'll probably just start calling you names because they don't understand what's happening), and in a pre-made, you shouldn't have any problems with pulls or adds.

---
For Affliction:

Viable talent set ups.
www.wowhead.com/?talent=IEMr0MfkVtZfxM0cZVx

*Malediction should be delegated to only one lock per raid, otherwise it's a waste. Build above is for mana efficiency (long fights) for continuous dps - increased damage to siph. life tic but no draining (dps reduction), dark pact + imp mana/imp for larger mana pool, and cataclysm over imp sb for mana efficiency. Although Imp SB is a great talent overall, the effect will last for less than one tick (at most) in any serious raid.

Best gems to go for. +spell hit and +spell damage

Consumables. Wizard Oil, Blackened Basilisk (food)

Usefull enchants. +40 Spell damage (weapon), etc

Health. 11,000

Mana. 9,000+

Damage. 900+

Spell hit. 50+ (based on above build - needs to be higher if you're destro or don't have 5/5 supp).

Crit. n/a
---------

I assume you mean something like this?
www.wowhead.com/?talent=IiMrMRfkVzZcxzZtx0xr0z

This is a great build type, assuming you have decent crit and it's a short* fight.

The build I created was based on the following:

By having an overly large mana pool:
- no dangerous life-taps
- constant dot refresh
- recast for resists
- ability to spread multiple dots (idots) to many targets

By having a "large" health pool and mana pool (above)
- reduces stress on your healer
- no need to drain-life for dps loss

By having low crit, but high spell damage:
- more dps for multiple dot spread (sb is for 1 target)
- long-term damage over burst damage
- easy recast for resist ("fire and forget")

If you have decent crit, you should throw away my first build and focus on something like that above (basically a sm/ruin variant). If you don't have decent crit or +spell hit, you'll need an excessively large mana pool to compensate combined with increased damage over time.

Think about it this way: assuming low crit, you're going to have about a 15% chance of crit - which means you'll get that 1500 damage once every 35 seconds or so - which is about what you'd make up with the increased spell damage from dem. aegis. I can show you based on spell rotation, if you wish.

*shrugs* I'd love to see your damage output equation and range of crit. that produces more dps (with a 95% confidence interval); I'm assuming crit as the independent variable. Now, I know this will only be comparable through a damage over time graph, but I currently don't know the equilibrium point myself - I'm leaving that to you. Wait.. I think it's a three dimensional graph, which means intersecting planes... aiks, hard to figure out *headache* T_T

As for +spell hit, saying you need +200 hit is ridiculous - you shouldn't need above 150 until you start running for tier 5. Remember - this is for *initial* entry into kara - you should be raising your +hit as soon as it's possible.

The reason why I'll take another lock over you, is that you don't take the time to understand the reason behind choosing specific talents - you look for one thing and then explain why it's the ultimate truth. Moreover, you're too narrow minded to see how one thing can compensate for the other.

No, I would mean something like 41/0/20 or 43/0/18. Any points in demo beyond iHS are mostly wasted compared to other available talents (though I wouldn't ridicule a lock for taking a few extra in Demonic Embrace if they PvP heavily, though I would encourage them to respec between raids and arenas if possible).


You need to life tap no matter what, and they're not dangerous if you're smart about it. Just don't tap right before predictable damage (ground slam), and watch carefully for less-predictable damage afterwards (orbs).


Your healers shouldn't be stressed unless the fight's going badly. You have raid healers to heal the raid, who don't have to try and heal the tank. If you're life tapping correctly, then there's no stress placed on them because you should be life tapping during a lull in damage.


By having low crit, you don't contribute to ISB uptime. Crit doesn't determine what spells you cast, you'll be throwing out the same DoTs and sbolts whether you have 10% crit or 30%. You seem to think it does.

Another thing about your build is that you claim it's based on DoT's, but then leave out UA. Erm...?


I've yet to find a gear level where DA outdoes either UA or Ruin. I'm getting a 50-75dps loss at Kara-level, and worse and worse as the gear gets better. You also have to take into consideration that you're eating other people's charges of ISB by not having it, and as I said, 1500 was worst-case with 4 not-crit sbolts and no DoT ticks. More realistically, it'll be 2-3 sbolts, 1-2 spriest spells, and probably at least 2-4 DoT ticks.


I have no idea what you said or what a crit versus damage graph would prove. Plug the numbers into a damage spreadsheet, that's easier.


It's not overkill by any means. Hit cap is one of the first priorities for any caster, just behind enough health to survive raid-wide damage. Should an Kara-level lock be expected to have 202 rating? No. Should it be a goal as soon as possible? Yes.


I'm a raid leader, theorycrafter, and minmaxer, thanks. I think about specs and gear in insane detail. I scour EJ and other sites regularly, and make avid use of DPS spreadsheets and simulations in order to try and maximize my priest and help others in my guild.
There is no way DA outdoes Ruin or UA. There is no solid reason for needing that much health in raids (if you can get it, great, but it's not *needed,* at least not until well into Tier 5).

Edited, Oct 30th 2007 4:33pm by lsfreak

FTW right there. That should get you started. Don't forget the pots, dont be cheap (major shadow power,wiz oil and if you want(cause 23 spell damage is not going to break or make you, Blackened Basilisk)