Now I'm not there yet, but I've been reading up a lot on the fight and I had an idea for a Paladin tanking prince.
In stage 2 he dual wields those axes and gains parry. Parry can be deadly as it shortens the attack time of the next incoming attack, therefore increasing the amount of damage the tank takes. Most of you who are reading this already know this.
With all of the threat generation from stage 1, would it be possible to just not attack prince during this phase, i.e. turn off auto-attack and just spam everything else that increases threat: Consecration, SoV or SoR judgement, Holy Shield, and Exorcism? Of course with the judgements you would have to turn off auto-attack immediately after judging, but that can be put into a macro. This would eliminate the parry chance, and I think make it a smoother run. This would especially work for Alliance Paladins, as SoV does not do much holy damage anyway, and judging it every time would make things easier.
Anyway... just a thought that I wanted to share... comments?
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Prince Tanking Strategy (theory)Follow
The Honorable CapJack wrote:
Now I'm not there yet, but I've been reading up a lot on the fight and I had an idea for a Paladin tanking prince.
In stage 2 he dual wields those axes and gains parry. Parry can be deadly as it shortens the attack time of the next incoming attack, therefore increasing the amount of damage the tank takes. Most of you who are reading this already know this.
With all of the threat generation from stage 1, would it be possible to just not attack prince during this phase, i.e. turn off auto-attack and just spam everything else that increases threat: Consecration, SoV or SoR judgement, Holy Shield, and Exorcism? Of course with the judgements you would have to turn off auto-attack immediately after judging, but that can be put into a macro. This would eliminate the parry chance, and I think make it a smoother run. This would especially work for Alliance Paladins, as SoV does not do much holy damage anyway, and judging it every time would make things easier.
Anyway... just a thought that I wanted to share... comments?
In stage 2 he dual wields those axes and gains parry. Parry can be deadly as it shortens the attack time of the next incoming attack, therefore increasing the amount of damage the tank takes. Most of you who are reading this already know this.
With all of the threat generation from stage 1, would it be possible to just not attack prince during this phase, i.e. turn off auto-attack and just spam everything else that increases threat: Consecration, SoV or SoR judgement, Holy Shield, and Exorcism? Of course with the judgements you would have to turn off auto-attack immediately after judging, but that can be put into a macro. This would eliminate the parry chance, and I think make it a smoother run. This would especially work for Alliance Paladins, as SoV does not do much holy damage anyway, and judging it every time would make things easier.
Anyway... just a thought that I wanted to share... comments?
Its an idea.
You shouldnt really NEED to do that though. If you want to try it, just watch your threat meter like a hawk. Ive never done prince with a pally tank and dunno how far ahead they get. With a warrior though i can peak on my rogue, vanish and pop CDs and then get right back up towards the top.
edit: and SoV will wear off so soon it wont amount to much.
Edited, Oct 26th 2007 12:54pm by KTurner
See Jack if you were holy you wouldn't have to worry about his parries.
Stage 2 is the burn like crazy phase. Its where shamans save their bloodlusts for, people save trinkets and cooldowns, so if a tank is generating less TPS, it can really slow down dps and make phase 2 longer than needed. I would not stop attacking.
Prince is one of the more heavy healing fights I've done. The tank can end up taking a good amount of damage no matter what, and you just have to heal through it. That's why if we have a 3rd person who is a hybrid dps/healer spec, we usually ask them to go ahead and forgo their dps for an extra healer. I've done prince before with 2 healers, but it was difficult and certainly not fun.
Stage 2 is the burn like crazy phase. Its where shamans save their bloodlusts for, people save trinkets and cooldowns, so if a tank is generating less TPS, it can really slow down dps and make phase 2 longer than needed. I would not stop attacking.
Prince is one of the more heavy healing fights I've done. The tank can end up taking a good amount of damage no matter what, and you just have to heal through it. That's why if we have a 3rd person who is a hybrid dps/healer spec, we usually ask them to go ahead and forgo their dps for an extra healer. I've done prince before with 2 healers, but it was difficult and certainly not fun.
Ain't gonna happen if I can help it
Quote:
would it be possible to just not attack prince during this phase
yes, you could do this... and the dps will then have to hold back a little more, making a longer phase, draining more of the healers mana & risking /oom.... so are you really ahead?
gear up your healers
I think it really depends on the difference in threat generation. I would be willing to try this once my guild gets better geared and we can clear Kara no sweat.
For instance it could be worth it if it maybe takes 30 seconds longer if the Paladin healers don't have to switch to HL because of the spike damage.
For instance it could be worth it if it maybe takes 30 seconds longer if the Paladin healers don't have to switch to HL because of the spike damage.
honestly, jack, prince himself isnt that big of a deal. The whole encounter is all about infernal placement and melee running out when enfeebled. Other than that its really not too big of a deal.
Have any of you guys tried the "safezone" that I read about in WoWWiki, where basically there are a couple spots where you dont even have to worry about infernals damaging you?
is it recent advice, or advice from when BC first came out? There were some safespots that were fixed. Dunno which ones you are talking about though.
WoWWiki wrote:
There are "safe" spots for fighting Prince. Infernals do not damage characters in these locations. Prince Malchezaar's other abilities are not affected by this location. Melee characters (including the tank) can take one, and healers and ranged damage-dealers can take the other. Healers and ranged damage-dealers do not need to move at all during the fight.
The strategy involves pulling Prince to the far left wall away from the entrance. To be more precise;
Pass through the door and follow the wall on the left. Go all the way to the far wall.
Ranged characters move forward to a notch in the wall and hold there.
Melee characters and the tank move to the next notch and hold there.
It is preferable to have ranged damage-dealers instead of melee classes. Infernals may surround the safe spot so that melee characters have nowhere to run when enfeebled.
To date, Blizzard has given no indication that they consider use of these safe spots to be an exploit.
The strategy involves pulling Prince to the far left wall away from the entrance. To be more precise;
Pass through the door and follow the wall on the left. Go all the way to the far wall.
Ranged characters move forward to a notch in the wall and hold there.
Melee characters and the tank move to the next notch and hold there.
It is preferable to have ranged damage-dealers instead of melee classes. Infernals may surround the safe spot so that melee characters have nowhere to run when enfeebled.
To date, Blizzard has given no indication that they consider use of these safe spots to be an exploit.
They also gave a couple links here and here.
those arent the ones i have heard of so they could be legit. First time you guys go there i would definitely try those spots.
On my guilds last kara run we got to prince and the healers and ranged dps stayed in the doorway the tank was just outside of cleanse range. the melee dps ran there when they were enfeebled. The strat worked really good for us no infernals to worry about if are melee would have been faster running away when enfeebled the fight would have been a cake walk.
Quote:
just watch your threat meter
Ok, I've popped in every once in a while. Probably start posting more with either questions or advice as I get higher levels and such.
One thing: WTF IS THAT!? I know there's probably a mod somewhere somehow that reads off threat. I've passively looked for it and nothing, so for now I've been going off of what my target's target is (insert: hunter/warrior/mage) and tossing them a BoP or RD.
Curiosity/laziness is pushing me to ask this question. Nubness is hoping there is such a thing. Realist is thinking that you guys just do what I've been doing (maybe not same technique, but same manner).
well, most raiding guilds require a threat meter, which is a mod that you need to download.
it syncs with everyone else in the raid that has it and keeps realtime tabs on the threat each person puts out.
Obviously, you dont want your melee DPS putting out more threat than the tank.
it syncs with everyone else in the raid that has it and keeps realtime tabs on the threat each person puts out.
Obviously, you dont want your melee DPS putting out more threat than the tank.
Linky?
my first double post how great it is.
Edited, Oct 26th 2007 4:58pm by EyeOfTheWolf
Edited, Oct 26th 2007 4:58pm by EyeOfTheWolf
Bad idea. Don't really have to go over why it is a bad idea.
If you can't figure it out on your own you need to hang up your shield and cancel your account.
If you can't figure it out on your own you need to hang up your shield and cancel your account.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
The Honorable CapJack wrote:
Now I'm not there yet, but I've been reading up a lot on the fight and I had an idea for a Paladin tanking prince.
In stage 2 he dual wields those axes and gains parry. Parry can be deadly as it shortens the attack time of the next incoming attack, therefore increasing the amount of damage the tank takes. Most of you who are reading this already know this.
With all of the threat generation from stage 1, would it be possible to just not attack prince during this phase, i.e. turn off auto-attack and just spam everything else that increases threat: Consecration, SoV or SoR judgement, Holy Shield, and Exorcism? Of course with the judgements you would have to turn off auto-attack immediately after judging, but that can be put into a macro. This would eliminate the parry chance, and I think make it a smoother run. This would especially work for Alliance Paladins, as SoV does not do much holy damage anyway, and judging it every time would make things easier.
Anyway... just a thought that I wanted to share... comments?
In stage 2 he dual wields those axes and gains parry. Parry can be deadly as it shortens the attack time of the next incoming attack, therefore increasing the amount of damage the tank takes. Most of you who are reading this already know this.
With all of the threat generation from stage 1, would it be possible to just not attack prince during this phase, i.e. turn off auto-attack and just spam everything else that increases threat: Consecration, SoV or SoR judgement, Holy Shield, and Exorcism? Of course with the judgements you would have to turn off auto-attack immediately after judging, but that can be put into a macro. This would eliminate the parry chance, and I think make it a smoother run. This would especially work for Alliance Paladins, as SoV does not do much holy damage anyway, and judging it every time would make things easier.
Anyway... just a thought that I wanted to share... comments?
I managed to get to tank prince last week, my first time.
Everyone said awsome job, so Ive been strutting around ^^
Anyways... Dont worry about it. As long as your healers are on the ball
AND YOU KEEP HOLYSHIELD UP ASAP. you will be fine.
You must still be generating as much threat as you can in phase 2
Dps has to get him down asap, and that mean you gotta
do everything it takes to keep your threat up.
Keep holy shield up, always make it priority over casting anything else.
Of course I am assuming your Uncrushable...
Just be ready to Loh yourself/healthpot/health stone in a split second.
If you find yourself far enough ahead in threat, then I can see no reason not to. If you have a raid filled with rogues, mages, hunters and anyone else who can drop a lot of threat pretty quickly, have them do so right before then. You'll still be doing holy shield, judgements, exorcism, and other reflective damage so you'll still gain some threat.
Though, if you're that far ahead in threat, you may want to consider a bit less spell damage and a bit more mitigation.
Though, if you're that far ahead in threat, you may want to consider a bit less spell damage and a bit more mitigation.
Awww bodh, are you getting mean again cause I mentioned you have been mild lately?
Besides, the whole "I am right, you are wrong, I don't need to explain why" thing stop working on me like 3 months ago. That's also rather drastic, if I can't figure out counter arguments to my own strategy I should just quit the game. You need to stick to your elephant analogies, I like them best.
@Pol, I would never consider tanking Prince without uncrittable/uncrushable.
Anyway, this was just a theory, I figure people who are geared up enough wouldn't have to worry about this. But for people doing first runs like me, these kind of gimmicky things are sometimes helpful to win.
Besides, the whole "I am right, you are wrong, I don't need to explain why" thing stop working on me like 3 months ago. That's also rather drastic, if I can't figure out counter arguments to my own strategy I should just quit the game. You need to stick to your elephant analogies, I like them best.
@Pol, I would never consider tanking Prince without uncrittable/uncrushable.
Anyway, this was just a theory, I figure people who are geared up enough wouldn't have to worry about this. But for people doing first runs like me, these kind of gimmicky things are sometimes helpful to win.
The Honorable CapJack wrote:
"I am right, you are wrong, I don't need to explain why"
Is that like 'I am holy, you are prot, I don't need to explain why'
The Honorable CapJack wrote:
@Pol, I would never consider tanking Prince without uncrittable/uncrushable.
I never figured you were. I meant things like more armor or maybe more stamina(I know, I know, stamina isn't mitigation). That kind of thing.
Every once in a while a poster will post something so obviously wrong, so blatantly silly and unequivocably idiotic that one shouldn't even have to make a counter argument to it.
One should be able to point and laugh and the person that posted it should crawl into a cave and wait out their shame.
One should be able to point and laugh and the person that posted it should crawl into a cave and wait out their shame.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
dont turn off parry, it generats more dmg on u, yes, but with ur 75% block it shouldnt be a proble, and also with blocking u get more threat and dmg on him, yey
let the healer worry about ur hp
let the healer worry about ur hp
Where in the world did you get 75% block from?? If I did my math right (not 100% sure on how much % the Libram gives) I come up with around 62% block for Jack. If Redoubt was up, that'd be 92%. Unless you were thinking Shield Block, which is a Warrior ability ...
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