Well i dont know how practical it is but im pretty impressed after seeing the video of a moonkin druid tanking prince, high king and gruul. I wonder if this is gonna start a trend for raiding guilds to have a panzerkin?
http://files.filefront.com/Vengeance+3+Rebirthwmv/;8838710;/fileinfo.html
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I just don't see this happening regularly.
To hold aggro, the Moonkin will need as much +SpellDmg as possible since he does not have any +threat moves like Sunder or Lacerate. So, caster gear, typically mixed cloth and leather.
On the other hand, to tank without being 2-shotted or 3-shotted, he will also need a crapload of Stam and Def. Thus sacrificing some caster stats... and thus holding aggro much less efficiently.
I can't check the video right now, but I'm pretty sure everyone must've been really well-geared to do that. Impressive to pull it off, but far from a "good" idea. ;P
To hold aggro, the Moonkin will need as much +SpellDmg as possible since he does not have any +threat moves like Sunder or Lacerate. So, caster gear, typically mixed cloth and leather.
On the other hand, to tank without being 2-shotted or 3-shotted, he will also need a crapload of Stam and Def. Thus sacrificing some caster stats... and thus holding aggro much less efficiently.
I can't check the video right now, but I'm pretty sure everyone must've been really well-geared to do that. Impressive to pull it off, but far from a "good" idea. ;P
not to mention some serious mp5
You have to remember the Arena gear though. The Moonkin gladiators stuff has heaps of resilience (crit immunity), spell damage (threat), stamina and armor.
You don't have the same threat bonuses or taunt etc. but that gear certainly gives you plenty of tanking stats as well as threat generation.
Their guild must be heavily geared though. Especially the healers. The DPS needs to all be pretty good and be able to control their threat eg feign, vanish etc.
What they have achieved is certainly impressive, but only really a novelty. They are doing T4 instances with gear that is obviously much closer to end-game.
You don't have the same threat bonuses or taunt etc. but that gear certainly gives you plenty of tanking stats as well as threat generation.
Their guild must be heavily geared though. Especially the healers. The DPS needs to all be pretty good and be able to control their threat eg feign, vanish etc.
What they have achieved is certainly impressive, but only really a novelty. They are doing T4 instances with gear that is obviously much closer to end-game.
That guy had amazing spell-hit. In the entire movie I only saw one resist.
That was truly amazing though. I cannot only applaud the Moonkin who achieved this, but his guild as well. It must have taken excellent cooperation and skill.
That was truly amazing though. I cannot only applaud the Moonkin who achieved this, but his guild as well. It must have taken excellent cooperation and skill.
i think it's very likes something like that turns up
because moonkin form has the same armor bonus as dire bear form, so the difference is only 25% bonus stam which isnt that big of a deal
because moonkin form has the same armor bonus as dire bear form, so the difference is only 25% bonus stam which isnt that big of a deal
Quote:
so the difference is only 25% bonus stam which isnt that big of a deal
Can't let that slide.
At earlier levels, you can indeed tank pretty much anything with enough armor and decent health. When talking about raids, however, there are a bunch of other elements to consider.
Armor: Should be the same, yeah. However, a Bear tank will look for gear with "green" armor numbers which means gear that has relatively more armor than equivalent gear of the same level. Unless that arena gear has a lot of armor, a Bear tank will still have more armor.
Health: Loss of the 25% Stam is kind of a big deal. Furthermore, a Feral tank will have tons of Stam while a caster cannot get as much, or he will sacrifice too many caster stats. Again, I suppose that the Moonkin was set up so he'd be much like a Bear tank, but I don't think he's got nearly as much health.
Dodge: Bear tanks cannot block or parry, so they must rely on Dodge for the avoidance of damage. There are talents that help and decent Agi in the gear will do the trick. The Moonkin must have had a lot less Dodge than an average Bear tank.
Defense: A Bear tank will become uncrittable easily enough, especially with SotF. However, a Moonkin will have a much harder time becoming crit-immune without sacrificing too many stats. As pointed out by RB, it's true that the arena gear could help with that. I'd have to check, I'm not sure if arena gear would be enough or if some sacrifices would have to be made.
Taunt: This one is basic. Bear tank has taunt to regain aggro, Moonkin does not. I agree that the Moonkin is not the only great player in that video, the rest of his guild must be pretty good too.
Threat: Bear tanks have high-threat skills like Lacerate. Moonkins do not have such thing, so they must cause heavy enough damage to keep the mob's attention. Bear tanks also have a talent to help increase threat caused, too.
I think that's pretty much it. There's a lot of things to consider so I'm afraid it's not as simple as having as much armor as a Bear tank. =/
Also remember:
1) Bear form has talent Heart of the wild, which adds additional 20% on Bear form. So the increase is quite a bit more than just 25% stamina(should be 45% more I guess, not sure if they are additive or multiplicative).
2) You can't dodge while casting IIRC. I think he pointed that in the video on prince, phase 2.
3) Mana WILL be a problem, I have no idea how he managed mana, saw a shadow priest ticks on the screen, maybe there were 2?
4) He could have gone 31/28/0 +2 and pick Survival of the Fittest, to get the -3% to be critted, but then he'll be losing Wrath of Cenarius and at least 1 point of Dreamstate(not sure if he even using it) resulting in less threat generated.
In a wipe we had on Prince, when I was Balance Prince attacked me for ~10K->15K->10K on 10K armor or so(crush->crit->crush, "some" bad luck :) ) needless to say, I died on the first hit, the game factored in the other 2 attacks as well because they were so fast. Not 100% sure how it's relevant, but shows how much of a feat what they did really is I guess.
Anyway, this is quite impressive, thumbs up for thinking out of the box AND managing to do it, outgearing those places or not.
Yuval.
1) Bear form has talent Heart of the wild, which adds additional 20% on Bear form. So the increase is quite a bit more than just 25% stamina(should be 45% more I guess, not sure if they are additive or multiplicative).
2) You can't dodge while casting IIRC. I think he pointed that in the video on prince, phase 2.
3) Mana WILL be a problem, I have no idea how he managed mana, saw a shadow priest ticks on the screen, maybe there were 2?
4) He could have gone 31/28/0 +2 and pick Survival of the Fittest, to get the -3% to be critted, but then he'll be losing Wrath of Cenarius and at least 1 point of Dreamstate(not sure if he even using it) resulting in less threat generated.
In a wipe we had on Prince, when I was Balance Prince attacked me for ~10K->15K->10K on 10K armor or so(crush->crit->crush, "some" bad luck :) ) needless to say, I died on the first hit, the game factored in the other 2 attacks as well because they were so fast. Not 100% sure how it's relevant, but shows how much of a feat what they did really is I guess.
Anyway, this is quite impressive, thumbs up for thinking out of the box AND managing to do it, outgearing those places or not.
Yuval.
I checked his gear on the armory - the PvP gears resilience meant that he had plenty of crit reduction (much more than needed even without SotF). Also, the Balance arena gear has the bonus armor on it (green text) as well as a decent amount of stamina.
His stam would have been decent, but not as high as a similarly geared tank and the lack of dodge a definite liability.
This would have required excellent healers, controlled DPS & several shadowpriests/innervates to accomplish. I salute them for doing it.
His stam would have been decent, but not as high as a similarly geared tank and the lack of dodge a definite liability.
This would have required excellent healers, controlled DPS & several shadowpriests/innervates to accomplish. I salute them for doing it.
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