DW warriors chip in your OPFollow

Haha, ask RPZip about that. He tops his guild's damage charts regularly, I believe. Even after the 30 to 25% flurry nerf, fury warriors are still going strong.

The deathwish swap by itself might decrease DPS slightly, but the new 10% threat reduction from Improved Berzerker Stance and the changes to whirlwind, allowing it to hit with both weapons while dual-wielding, will mean a net increase in dps, and a notable one at that. Tell your rogue friend that fury is FAR from destroyed.

2.3 is going to be an overall buff for dps warriors.

...

10% decrease in threat means nothing to you? Its going to MORE than make up for being able to use deathwish during an execute spam. -_-

See, I wasn't ever spoiled with a totem-twisting shaman. Actually, I'm pretty sure MOST of us aren't. :P

The 10% decrease in threat is going to be alot more useful for us normal un-totem-twisty folk.

crusader is kinda lame at 70.

potency is, imho, an OH enchant. And mongoose is sexy, and great for MH.

Savagery for 2h is still a very nice enchant, and i'm still debating if mongoose is > savagery for 2h.

Edited, Oct 24th 2007 10:51pm by devioususer

According to my new best friend (enhancement shaman) there is a blue post on the O-boards saying that they will "eventually" nerf totem twisting because it's "not what they intended".

OT though. When you consider the WW change and weapon mastery move/change, fury warriors will see net increase in there dps. The WW change as stated is huge in the fact that every 9 seconds you will get off hand dmg as well as main hand, add to that fact that the extra hit can reproc flurry. Combine that with weapon mastery, a flat 2% increase in overall dps by removing 2% of the mob's dodge percent and it will infact be a net increase in dps.

Sure the loss of DW during the rexicute cycle is a pretty big loss. But when you consider that most boss fights last a minimum of 5 mins (unless you out gear the encounter) it doesn't compare with the new WW and weapon mastery changes.

Add on top of that the extra threat reduction from imp berserker stance means you can engage sooner at the start of the fight and after threat wiping transitions.

Totem twisting? Is that like the old bard song twisting from EQ?

Explain this to Quor plz. :P

Sweeping strikes IS a pre-requisite for bloodthirst, same as deathwish was.

Editted for grammarz.

Edited, Oct 25th 2007 1:28pm by greenroom

Also considering that both are 21 point talents you would have to choose between DW and rampage. And just so there is no speculation rampage wins hands down over DW for overall dps.

How Mana Efficient is this Totem Twisting? I understand the theory and I have tried to get my Raid Leaders to put the Enhancement Shammy in the group with the Melee DPS, (usually 3 rogues and myself) but they won't do it. On the other hand they are talking about totem twisting being a mana drain and yadda yadda yadda. So, what do you think? How can I convince the guild to get the Enhance Shammie in the melee dps group and to twist the totems..some LIGHT math would be nice, as I'm not a mathemagician like some of you guys are.

In other words, yes, it's precisely the same as bard twisting. Thanks =)

Your forgetting weapon mastery moving to the fury tree and being changed to a flat 2% dodge decrease on target.

Yes losing 20% of reck/ex is a big loss. DW last 30 seconds so for 30 seconds twice in the fight (perhaps 3 times if the fight is long enough). So for most boss fights you get 1 minute of 20% extra dmg.

During the entire (before execute range) you are getting OH hits on WW every 9 seconds roughly (eventually you cooldowns will trip over each other, mainly from having to move) and a flat 2% increase in all dps.

The threat reduction with a totem twisting shaman isn't that big of a deal save for the maybe 5 seconds you can engage sooner after a transition phase or threat wipe. If you chalking out 1000dps roughly we'll say you get 2500 in those 5 seconds cause you're using the first few seconds to get rampage back up, perhaps rebuff battle shout, throw demo on for the tank, etc. Not huge in the big picture but still a help.

The main points are the OH dmg every 9 seconds plus the fact that it's another instant attack to proc flurry meaning more flurry up time, and the 2% dmg increase from weapon mastery.

Consider a 6 minute fight with DW so you get 2 of them off. Gonna assume 1000 dps since it's a nice round number and works better with percentages.

1000 * 300 = 300000
1000 * 60 = 60000 * 1.2 = 72000
72000 - 60000 = 12000 dmg increase with DW (I know this doesn't account for DW during execute, just bare with me for the moment)

Consider a 6 minute fight with the new WW and one point in imp WW. My own testing on the PTR raid buffed (with an off hand dagger no less, emerald ripper) I average 350ish non- crit and 850ish on crit.

We'll say the last 45 seconds is execute time so no WW.
Using 35% crit rate since it's a more common raid buffed crit rate than 33% everyone normally uses.


315 / 9 = 35 WW's during the fight
350 * .65 = 227.5
850 * .35 = 297.5
297.5 + 227.5 = 525 average OH dmg on WW (for me anyways)

525 * 35 = 18375 extra dmg.


These numbers are of course not exact just my personnal numbers I recorded on the PTR. I also didn't account for the fact that the second DW you will be putting out considerably more dmg due to it being on in rexecute time.

I believe however that the 2% increase from weapon mastery and the threat reduction from imp zerker stance will make up for the difference. As well as having a non-dagger off hand that isn't normalized at a much lower speed.

There is no OH miss penalty, there's the DW miss penalty which applies to both hands.

As it's a yellow attack, though, it'll use the special miss rate of 5% base.